The culture of Distrust (Full Version)

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Loveisallyouneed -> The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 5:57:08 AM)


If someone wanted to study the causes for the disintegration of social cohesion in western society, one would need to travel no further than this place.

It is rather obvious the vast majority support and encourage a culture of fraud and deceit in pursuit of selfish goals.

It is a study in the anonymity of a herd animal. No checks, no balances, no sense of responsibility to others. "Caveat Emptor" is their creed.

As it is the vast majority who approve of this paradigm, it follows that as they behave here, so do they behave in a like manner whenever they can get away with it: whenever they are anonymous enough to take advantage of another's trust.

And thus they further the erosion of trust in our society.

I don't suppose anyone considers the consequences: how trust is essential to any society and that the betrayal of that trust through deceit and fraud merely makes it harder to find trusting and trustworthy people in the future.

For as each trusting individual is betrayed, that person learns not to trust others in the future.

For it is not just one betrayal. The vast majority are participating in a culture of deceit and fraud and there are many betrayals waiting for each of us who participate in places like this.

It takes a strong person to be betrayed and not join in the culture of deceipt and fraud...

...and as the vast majority demonstrate, our society does not believe in raising citizens with the strength of character needed to resist that temptation.

No, our society encourages a culture of deceit and begins indoctrination at a young age.

And that is why so many adults practice deceit and fraud whenever they believe it is to their advantage.

And as they practice deceit and fraud, so their example encourages others to participate in a culture of deceit and fraud.

Just keep in mind that it is not just this site, or just the internet where these 'qualities' can be found.

The culture of deceit and fraud exists in the hearts and minds of those who practice it, wherever they go, whatever they do.

Yes, we all like to bitch about corrupt and deceitful politicians. But keep in mind that these politicians are only displaying the same qualities the vast majority hold to be true: trust exists so you can take advantage of it and betray it when you are in a position to exploit it to your profit.

Caveat Emptor.



LadyHathor -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 6:05:34 AM)

as long as the human has the ability to decide right from wrong, there will always be a disagreement about what is right and what is wrong, there will always be mistrust, deceipt and betrayal, IMHO



pahunkboy -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 6:16:37 AM)

Greed is nothing new.  Much goes in cycles.  I seen an auther on WorldCom whistleblower. The names change but the ebb and flow remains the same.

IMO there is a difference in urban vs rural.  Urban,  watch your back intently. Rural- sorta watch your back.

I often wonder on getting a dental filling is the joob is being done half azz.  Or a surgery.  Or a car repair.

If you are referring to dating....let me say this.   Anyone 30 years old- has baggage.  If not- then that person likely is an axe murdered.

This begs the question.   Are all sins equal  ?  My Babtist neighbor says they are.

Life is like driving.  Many will speed thru a red light.  Some will go the speed limit.  A few will blow a red light.  Some will drive too slow. Some will use turn signals.  Some will get multiple DUIs.  This mirrors life.  So- plating ball with a driver who blows a yellow light- might be ok.  Where as ones that will blow a red light less ok.  





ShareMyDream -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 8:52:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
It is rather obvious the vast majority support and encourage a culture of fraud and deceit in pursuit of selfish goals.

Obvious to you perhaps.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
It is a study in the anonymity of a herd animal. No checks, no balances, no sense of responsibility to others. "Caveat Emptor" is their creed.

Is this thread about something you bought and are unhappy with?
quote:


As it is the vast majority who approve of this paradigm, it follows that as they behave here, so do they behave in a like manner whenever they can get away with it: whenever they are anonymous enough to take advantage of another's trust.

Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.
quote:


And thus they further the erosion of trust in our society.

This is the problem when trust is made out of limestone and the tide of mistrust lashes against them.
quote:


I don't suppose anyone considers the consequences: how trust is essential to any society and that the betrayal of that trust through deceit and fraud merely makes it harder to find trusting and trustworthy people in the future.

No because only you can see that.
quote:


For as each trusting individual is betrayed, that person learns not to trust others in the future.

Fool me once bla bla etc.
quote:


For it is not just one betrayal. The vast majority are participating in a culture of deceit and fraud and there are many betrayals waiting for each of us who participate in places like this.

Paranoia is also waiting for us around every corner.
quote:


It takes a strong person to be betrayed and not join in the culture of deceipt and fraud...

You perhaps?
quote:


...and as the vast majority demonstrate, our society does not believe in raising citizens with the strength of character needed to resist that temptation.

Damn parents.
quote:


No, our society encourages a culture of deceit and begins indoctrination at a young age.

Tom and Jerry sets a very bad example I agree.
quote:


And that is why so many adults practice deceit and fraud whenever they believe it is to their advantage.

It's a dog eat dog world indeed. Although I've never actually seen a dog eat a dog except one time I was told about a dog that eat her puppy after birth.
quote:


And as they practice deceit and fraud, so their example encourages others to participate in a culture of deceit and fraud.

Who is they anyway? Everyone but yourself? Some examples would be nice.
quote:


Just keep in mind that it is not just this site, or just the internet where these 'qualities' can be found.

You mean there are scary people in the real world too?
quote:


The culture of deceit and fraud exists in the hearts and minds of those who practice it, wherever they go, whatever they do.

You know what they say...Evil is a full time job...No rest for the wicked etc.
quote:


Yes, we all like to bitch about corrupt and deceitful politicians. But keep in mind that these politicians are only displaying the same qualities the vast majority hold to be true: trust exists so you can take advantage of it and betray it when you are in a position to exploit it to your profit.

I feel sorry that you think these qualities are the majority and not the minority of us.
quote:


Caveat Emptor.

I don't buy anything anyone says on the internet. I love the way your posts are so rhetorical. [:D]



ThinkingKitten -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 9:10:58 AM)

I recall watching a documentary once, where they investigated the fact that it is our innate ability to deceive others (in other words, lie) that sets Homo sapiens apart from its fellow species on this planet. There are some mild variations on the theme in some of the other ape species, but none have honed the skill to the same degree that we have. This is of course different from animal behaviour that seeks to camouflage/hide/distract predators/competitors from themselves or young ones as such actions revolve around survival only.

Humans are the cream of the crop for deception. We've evolved this way. Why be surprised at having an equal propensity for distrust? However, as certain popular TV/psychology types like to remind us, the only person's behaviour we can control and change, is our own. Amen.



kdsub -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 9:21:11 AM)

You must have been hurt deeply by someone you trusted...I think your view of the human condition is jaded. You have become a half empty rather than half full person.

I believe you can compare the so-called" Western society", and its charitable and moral tenets, against any other in time and we would be compared favorably.

Not without problems and temporary setbacks of course but we stepped up rather than back in the fight to improve the overall human condition.


Butch



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 12:08:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You must have been hurt deeply by someone you trusted...I think your view of the human condition is jaded. You have become a half empty rather than half full person.

I believe you can compare the so-called" Western society", and its charitable and moral tenets, against any other in time and we would be compared favorably.

Not without problems and temporary setbacks of course but we stepped up rather than back in the fight to improve the overall human condition.


I assume you are speaking of our accomplishments, such as:
- global warming
- nuclear arms race
- genocide
- slavery

... and those are just some of the highlights of the 20th century.

I don't think one has to be scarred for life with a tragic betrayal to notice all the profiles, both male and female, that loudly proclaim their disappointment that so many users here are insincere, deceptive, etc.

Dominants who are not "dominant", submissives who are not "submissive" are not only popular topics within profiles but are also frequently discussed topics here in the forums.

One would have to close his/her eyes to assume there is no just cause for all of this attention on the deception of others.

And if one has watched the increasing trend towards cynicism and away from idealism since the '60s, one would have to conclude it is a disturbing trend with long-term consequences for social cohesion.

Or one can wear rose-coloured glasses ...



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 12:18:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingKitten

I recall watching a documentary once, where they investigated the fact that it is our innate ability to deceive others (in other words, lie) that sets Homo sapiens apart from its fellow species on this planet. There are some mild variations on the theme in some of the other ape species, but none have honed the skill to the same degree that we have. This is of course different from animal behaviour that seeks to camouflage/hide/distract predators/competitors from themselves or young ones as such actions revolve around survival only.

Humans are the cream of the crop for deception. We've evolved this way. Why be surprised at having an equal propensity for distrust? However, as certain popular TV/psychology types like to remind us, the only person's behaviour we can control and change, is our own. Amen.


Societies do not long survive the destruction of trust.

Consider the inner city ghetto, with crime and street gangs rampant.

Each person who deceives another for profit of any kind is contributing to that culture of suspicion.

And strangely enough, society encourages this behaviour.



MistressNoName -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 12:47:10 PM)

Some very astute observations. And I think part of the resistance to these observations is that we don't want to be confronted with the truth...that we each have a part in this culture of distrust. Because it causes us to have to uncomfortably look inward at how we have contributed to this state of affairs and directs us to look inward for solutions, as well.

What was it that Ghandi said?..."You have to be the change you want to see in the world." Something along those lines. Well, that means if I want to see honesty, I have to deal with myself and others honestly. If I want to see honorable business practices...well, I have to be honorable in my business. Etc, etc...but that also sets up a feeling of vulnerability. I mean, if I put my honesty out there, how am I also going to protect myself so that some Joe Blow doesn't come along and take advantage of me? And it also has the potential of eventually wearing down my resolve...I mean, how long can I keep on being a proponent of eco-friendly waste disposal in the face of ever increasing global carbon footprints? Practically speaking, I'm tired of being the only "fool" at the block association meeting who thinks this is an issue... At the end of the day, does my little attempt at doing the right thing even matter?

And then there's the matter of the mental mindgames we play with ourselves each and everyday that help to perpetuate the status quo...we convince ourselves on a daily that "little white lies" are somehow acceptable...instead of recognizing the truth of the matter...that telling lies simply encourages more lies and make us nothing more than experienced liars. It's not a value judgment, it's just the truth. If you practice something long enough eventually you just get really good at it. And every individual has to decide what s/he is going to do with that information.

Great topic.

MNN



celticlord2112 -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 1:50:31 PM)

quote:

If someone wanted to study the causes for the disintegration of social cohesion in western society, one would need to travel no further than this place.

It is rather obvious the vast majority support and encourage a culture of fraud and deceit in pursuit of selfish goals.


CollarMe is a great many things, but I rather suspect identifying it as the great destroyer of Western Civilization is a bit extreme.

The curious nature of all things "obvious" is they tend to require the greatest explanation and/or illumination.  For myself, I do not see your charge as being at all "obvious".



kdsub -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 2:25:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed


I assume you are speaking of our accomplishments, such as:
- global warming
- nuclear arms race
- genocide
- slavery

... and those are just some of the highlights of the 20th century.



So you think Western society is the cause of global warming?.....I guess China...Russia don't count...if it is even true.

Western society was not the sole reason for the nuclear arms race...I guess Russia and China had nothing to do with that either. Or they Western society

Where has a western society been using genocide lately may I ask

We...at least the western society has progressed past slavery...can't say the same for the eastern societies.

You did say Western Society did you not?  Maybe you mean societies other than western?

Butch





charmdpetKeira -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 2:32:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed


If someone wanted to study the causes for the disintegration of social cohesion in western society, one would need to travel no further than this place.

It is rather obvious the vast majority support and encourage a culture of fraud and deceit in pursuit of selfish goals.



You are speaking for yourself here; yes?
 
k



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 3:00:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

Great topic.



An honour to have caught your attention. I appreciate the candour with which you approached this topic.

In my journal I ask the reader "Whose lead do you follow: those who are rude, or those who are respectful?"

It is easy, under the guise of anonymity, to absolve one's self of all personal responsibility for one's conduct.

After all, who but us will know what we do?

And therein is the point.

To few value themselves enough to behave as if the whole world were witness.

And so the destruction of social cohesion moves forward: remorseless, pitiless, and without concern for the future.



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 3:05:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

If someone wanted to study the causes for the disintegration of social cohesion in western society, one would need to travel no further than this place.

It is rather obvious the vast majority support and encourage a culture of fraud and deceit in pursuit of selfish goals.


CollarMe is a great many things, but I rather suspect identifying it as the great destroyer of Western Civilization is a bit extreme.

The curious nature of all things "obvious" is they tend to require the greatest explanation and/or illumination.  For myself, I do not see your charge as being at all "obvious".



As I charge the "vast majority" with this behaviour, I doubt the "vast majority" will agree to see the "obvious".

It is enough that one or two are honest enough with themselves and the rest of us to acknowledge what is discussed repeatedly in thread after thread: the fakes, the liars, the frauds.

Either those threads are a falsehood in themselves, and all who contribute to the claim that bdsm is rife with fakes and frauds are in themselves deceitful. Or the denials about my statements are mere indulgences in deceit to score whatever political points might be gained by a rose-coloured pov.

Can't have it both ways. That would be hypocrisy.

So no matter how one approaches this: deceit is proven to be wide-spread.



ShareMyDream -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 3:18:12 PM)

Solvent abuse is bad for social cohesion, too much solvent breaks down the cohesion of society leaving us errrm fucked.

I also fail to understand how you think people need to be anonymous to be rude. If you was to walk into the office I work at and start speaking in the manor you are here you’d be told in no uncertain terms to stop pointing out problems and come up with some meaningful solutions. It is easy to preach what is wrong but so hard to go about fixing it.

What are your aims and objectives with this thread exactly?



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 3:26:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed


I assume you are speaking of our accomplishments, such as:
- global warming
- nuclear arms race
- genocide
- slavery

... and those are just some of the highlights of the 20th century.



So you think Western society is the cause of global warming?.....I guess China...Russia don't count



Considering the industrial revolution started and spread through the west long before it reached Russia and China, yes, the West is responsible.

quote:


...if it is even true.


Ignorance is bliss.

quote:


Western society was not the sole reason for the nuclear arms race...I guess Russia and China had nothing to do with that either. Or they Western society


As you seem ignorant of history, I will not disturb your bliss with details.

Of how keeping the bomb a secret from the Soviets despite the fact they were our allies and had suffered more casualties than any ally fighting the Germans led to deep-rooted suspicions that still have not ended.

quote:


Where has a western society been using genocide lately may I ask


Perhaps you'd like to ask the native Tasmanians who wipde them out?

Or the Jews and Slavs whom Nazi Germany did its very best to exterminate (Germany is/was a Western nation, correct?).

And then there is the history of white America and its dealings with native populations.

They do teach history in America, don't they?

quote:


We...at least the western society has progressed past slavery...can't say the same for the eastern societies.


Yes, "we", as a "god-fearing Christian" society initiated, and engaged in the most degrading form of slavery known to history for centuries.

And as I recall America has granted "most favoured nation" trading status to China who, we know, engage in all forms of slave labour.

America doesn't wield the whip: it pays the whip-master to do that job, and is no less responsible for the enslavement of Chinese labour by granting China extensive trade rights.

quote:


You did say Western Society did you not?  Maybe you mean societies other than western?


It is true that in America everyone is entitled to an opinion.

It is a pity that before expressing an opinion one does no research to ensure they do not look a fool.

But then, in America, even the preseident is not afraid of looking a fool.



raisedonsunshine -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 3:28:00 PM)

It was such a lovely day today! So crisp and sunny! I'm seeing birds coming back from winter flights. A bit of green sprout of daffy dills peeking through the bit of thaw. Still snow on the ground, but aren't all seasons beautiful? So moving the work of nature. I'm so happy to be alive. It's a joy to breath each day.



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 3:31:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: raisedonsunshine

It was such a lovely day today! So crisp and sunny! I'm seeing birds coming back from winter flights. A bit of green sprout of daffy dills peeking through the bit of thaw. Still snow on the ground, but aren't all seasons beautiful? So moving the work of nature. I'm so happy to be alive. It's a joy to breath each day.


[:)]

Indeed it is, and I say that with three feet of snow on my property.

[:D]



Loveisallyouneed -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 3:34:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed


If someone wanted to study the causes for the disintegration of social cohesion in western society, one would need to travel no further than this place.

It is rather obvious the vast majority support and encourage a culture of fraud and deceit in pursuit of selfish goals.



You are speaking for yourself here; yes?
 
k


Curious that this is a source of concern for you.

Does truth change if spoken by one man or many?

Does truth change if many deny it?

Was the world flat only for as long as the majority believed it to be flat?

When the majority changed their minds, did the world stop being flat and become a spheroid?

Truth is truth, and the numbers are irrelevant.

Consider that next time you are tempted to ask someone if they speak only for themselves.



ShareMyDream -> RE: The culture of Distrust (3/30/2008 3:41:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
Of how keeping the bomb a secret from the Soviets despite the fact they were our allies and had suffered more casualties than any ally fighting the Germans led to deep-rooted suspicions that still have not ended.

What was the alternative exactly when no one could have predicted the outcome of WW2 and information shared with Russia could have been discovered by the Nazis as they gained more territory? Hindsight is 20:20
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
Or the Jews and Slavs whom Nazi Germany did its very best to exterminate (Germany is/was a Western nation, correct?).

Incorrect Nazi Germany was neither East nor West the concept of East and West being anything more than geographical locations was created after the iron curtain fell at the end of WW2. East and West also has nothing to do with communism unless you think Cuba is situated off the coast of Russia.



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