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PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 9:16:28 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Some recent experiences has left me reflecting upon many things, in my own life and questioning my choices in life.

I know that it's next to impossible to change the kinky bastard that I am, and that I'm very aggressive sexually and that I'm very DOM in the bedroom.   My personality is pretty much a Dominant one as well. 

However, I am questioning if I really need to have a D/s lifestyle relationship or not, for having a fillfulling relationship.  In many respects I think it would better for me, yet at the same time, I have come to realize that in part it's been a not so good thing for me.  How to best explain this now.

I recently was involved in a short term relationship with somebody that has an Alcohol addiction problem.  This was the first time I've ever been tangled up with somebody that had a substance abuse problem to this level.   Needless to say, I was faced at examining her problems a little more closely.   Such as her Passive-Aggressive behaviors and whatnot.   She is a self proclaimed switch and she herself has a natural dominant personality.   Non the less, I actually have come to understand how she manipulates situations and people to make herself feel more in control of her life.   When in reality her life is very much out of contol.  In many ways, deep down inside, she is looking for something to fix her life and make it right and better.  However, she's not into giving up true control of her life any time soon.  That would mean, ditching the control games she plays with people and facing her Alcohol addiction problems.

Anyways, I actually delved into reading many articles on the Internet (thank you guys for the great links) about Passive-Aggressive behaviors.   This is a topic, I have not explored until recently.   Mind you, the topic of PA behavior keeps popping up on the threads.   What startled me, was the fact that I myself am guilty of such behaviors.    Mind you, for the most past I'm not PA, however under the right circumstances I can very much be PA.

Near the end of this short term relationship, I found my own PA behaviors coming out as much as her own.  In many regards, it felt like somebody painfully peeling back the layers to my mind, heart and soul.   Emotions and thoughts changing at each layer, ranging from Denial, Hurt, Anger, Sadness, remorse, failure... you name it.   Going back in forth in my mind about who and what was the blame.   In short finding fault with myself as much as finding fault with her.   However, I was lost for a true balanced view on the matter for a couple of weeks.

In many ways, I can see and understand how she's become wrapped up into manipulating people and situations that it's become second nature.  For the most part, this gives her the power to advoid the fact she has some serious problems in life.  I have often read posts on here from submissives/slaves going into detail about Doms/Master bad PA behaviors.  Thank God, for all the posts on this topic over the last couple of years.   It's given me something to consider and think about now.

In many ways, I can understand and see how D/s has perhaps not challenged me enough to face my own PA behaviors.  I'm not saying that I have intentionally used D/s to hide anything about myself or avoid my problems.  However, I finding it rather ironic that D/s can reinforce such bad behaviors, unless one is conscious about it.   I grew up in a family environment that was full of bad PA behaviors from my own family members.   I grew up surrounded by control freaks who really were not happy about their own lives, and the only way they felt happy was to be in control of somebody else besides themselves.  LOL..

For my own sanity sake, I find I need to come clean with myself about a lot of things. 

I was actually making jokes with somebody this last week, that I'll end up fixing myself and my own internal issues and find out that I'm just a kinky vanillla guy.  LOL.   I honestly don't know where the road is leading right now.   I know I enjoy being in control and having power exchange over somebody.   However, I also realize that I also enjoy a good power struggle and fight which is not a healthy thing.  Basically, the whole Drama aspects of power struggle.  I think this has a lot to do with my family and being raised around this mindless crap.   So along on day, comes this girl who has a drinking problem who has a Dominant like personality, enjoys being topped in the bedroom.   She adores the fact that she can't boss me around like she can everybody else.   However, she's good at manipulating situations and people on a different level.  

Telling somebody what they want to hear, saying things she really does not mean.   You know doing the whole PA thing to a T because she herself grew up in an over controlling family setting that actually was far worse then my own.   One good thing, is that at least I took the time to listen to her childhood stories and about how extremely fucked up her family is/was.    I think in so many ways, her and I connected and related to one another very well.   She actually had a great level of insight into my soul.  When she was sobber, she often said things to me that made me stop and look at myself.   I did the same thing with her as well.

Anyways, I'm out of the relationship and her and I have cut off all contact with one another.  As the days pass, I find my sanity has been slowly returning.  I feel emotionally sobber, and the clarity of my thoughts has been snapping into place.

This was not a D/s relationship, however it had a deep impact upon my life.   Left me question a few things such as D/s really being a good thing or not for me.   Yet, at the same time I have the deep desires of owning somebody.  But I also have come to the realization I enjoy the challenge of the fights for power in a not so healthy way.   I'm actually feeling a little fucked right now.   I need some peace of mind in life, in short, I've become burned out from the fighting for power and drama.   So, I figure it's time for a change and see where the road leads.

I don't know how much of a common problem this is for other people in the lifestyle.  To reach a fork in the road, and come to these realizations.
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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 9:22:26 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		1) did you ever come out to her and at least give her the respect of having the full story of your own alcohol abuse problems and passive aggressive issues?

2) a huge number of doms use being "the dom" as a way to hide away from their issues and insecurities and not be responsible for the consequences, but as you've experienced, this rarely works out in the long run

3) it's good that you're questioning yourself seriously, but I think the issue is that you're really not in any place stability or maturity wise to be in ANY sort of serious relationship at this point yet.  Once you get to that point, you'll realize how you can know yourself enough not to allow such fearful responses

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 9:23:38 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Do you see yourself as 2 persons?
1 BDSM and 1 Vanilla? Are you satisfied with one of those?
You can't blame the lifestyle....because it is you who forms it to your wishes. If it is soemthing in yourself, that you dislike..then work onthat.
IF you are happy with both your lifes...then keep doing with what you enjoy.

There are many things in life..that can slap you in the face..and make you wonder about things....but when they fade away...all seems not as bad.


_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 9:41:36 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Do you see yourself as 2 persons?
1 BDSM and 1 Vanilla? Are you satisfied with one of those?
You can't blame the lifestyle....because it is you who forms it to your wishes. If it is soemthing in yourself, that you dislike..then work onthat.
IF you are happy with both your lifes...then keep doing with what you enjoy.

There are many things in life..that can slap you in the face..and make you wonder about things....but when they fade away...all seems not as bad.



I don't honestly view myself as two persons.  BDSM and Vanilla.   I've have been questioning pro's and con's of D/s vs. Non-D/s relationships at the moment. 

(in reply to Justme696)
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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 10:05:18 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
1) did you ever come out to her and at least give her the respect of having the full story of your own alcohol abuse problems and passive aggressive issues?

Not until after the fact.  It came out after things ended between us.  This was in terms of my own past abuse problems.  Ironically, some of my original songs are about crazy alcohol abuse or being around people drinking.   I wrote this one song called "Get the Beer Outta the Car", it's about dealing with drunk girls that like to party too much.  I suspect she thought I would have been supportive of her own drinking patterns.   She actually found me on myspace and heard my music first.  The thing is that I think she had this whole false notion that I would be a party boy match up for her.   In some ways, my own music was a bit of magnet for this.    The downside, that I had never shared with her my past drinking binge that lasted 6-7 months, and what I did to stop drinking and how I never want to go back to drinking like that ever again.

In terms of my own Passive-Aggressive issues, I have recently just became in touch with this after her and I broke up.  In short, I was not in touch with myself to be able to talk about such things.   I did not understand I myself had any problems with passive-aggressive behavior until a week ago.    If I did, I just might have shared with her more things going on inside my mind. Such as my own past alcohol abuse problems. 

quote:


2) a huge number of doms use being "the dom" as a way to hide away from their issues and insecurities and not be responsible for the consequences, but as you've experienced, this rarely works out in the long run

The longest relationship I have had lasted 7 1/2 years.  There really was very little PA behavior during this time period.   What disturbs me is that my PA behavior seems to come out more with others then it does with some.   It's sad to say, but it all depends upon the personality of who I have been with.    There are times when I see that I was extremely PA, and times when I was anything but PA.    I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the reasons behind this revelation. 

quote:


3) it's good that you're questioning yourself seriously, but I think the issue is that you're really not in any place stability or maturity wise to be in ANY sort of serious relationship at this point yet.  Once you get to that point, you'll realize how you can know yourself enough not to allow such fearful responses


Right now, I'm not looking for a relationship and I'm seriously exploring things and questioning myself.   Last thing I want to do is End up with somebody who has a major drug addiction problem or worse.  My pick in partners seems to have been getting worse and not better.   In terms of any prospective partners and even my friends and family to a point, I've become very open and honest, about many things in my past, and my own problems and issues I have.

 

  

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 11:20:12 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Ok, I'm gonna spell out my PA behavior on this one.

Her and I started seeing each other, we talked about having me move in.  I agreed to do it.   However, I started to realize she honestly has a drinking problem.  It was becoming difficult for me to be in and maintain a relationship with her.  Everything going on started to give me doubts and many second thoughts about moving in.

In short, I had not fully resolved myself to not moving in, however she asked me on a number of occasions, and I was still sticking to my word.  Yes, I am going to be moving in.

Then the last weekend I was there, he drinking was out of control.   She did not make it to work on time the next day, worse yet she ditched being responsible to make certain her laundry was done to have work clothes.  In short Drinking came over me and her own job.  She goes into work late the next day, comes home sick as a dog with the flu.   I stay until monday afternoon.  I had changed from being the angry hurt dude, to playing caretaker while she was sick.   Not the time to get into it with her about shit.   I come back home, I end up being sick the rest of the week.   Not working.

End of week happens, she asking me if I'm ready to move in.  March 15th.    When we first talked about me moving it March was set as the move date.   However, a lot of confusion when her one roommate would be moving out, because they needed to find another place to live first.   In short I was using this to my advantage to buy myself more time to figure out, if the problems going on between us with her drinking could be dealt with or not.   

Now, on March 15th, I was anything but ready to move.   At first, I telling her, I had been sick all week, I did not work, and I still needed to come up with the money for my share of the rent.    If I had worked that week, I would have had the money without question.   Anyways, she was drilling me about why I did not have the money ready, and was not prepared at all to move in.   Anyways, I reasserted about being sick and all.   Then she started in with me about questioning how much money I make a week, and about the time I wasted the week before practicing with a band.  When she called me on Saturday, I was in the middle of hanging drywall up at my mothers house.   A remodel project that I has been going on for a few weeks.  In short the walls needed to be closed up.    Anyways, she got all pissed off that I should not being doing that.   That I should be working working and making money that day.   

After talking some more that day, turns out her roommate will not be ready to move out until April 1st.   Anyways, I really did not like the fact she was trying to have me account for why I was not ready to move, and challenging how I was spending my time.   I had been sick all that week.

Anyways, I become agressive in my response to her.  Basically, that I'm not gonna have somebody push me around and make me account for everything little thing I do.  I actually went so far, to say, what the Hell do you want from me a Timesheet?  Look I don't want no mother figure in my life, and I'm not gonna let you play that role.   Me telling you everything little thing I got done today is not happening.

Anyways, I felt rather pushed by her, and to be honest, I was sick and tired of going over things back in forth in my mind.  The whole internal struggle that had been going on.

I was sick of trying to keep my word and stick to the agreement of me moving in, when I was having so many doubts.  Actually, I was having a difficult time in wanting to stay in this relationship.   A sort of love hate thing was evoling.

It was my intention to call her up and have a sane heart to heart conversation, and tell her that I was not gonna move in, and that I would still cover one months worth of my share of rent for pulling out.   This way it would give her some time to find another person (roommate) instead of having me her boyfriend move in.

Anyways, she went into avoidence mode.  After a few days of this.  I simply blew up, left a message on her phone that I was done with all.  Everything completely.   Left her a few emails explaining my reasons, and actually lashing out at her for her drinking problem.   A few days go by and I'm feeling like shit for it.   I write an apology letter, because honestly her and I did not talk about anything yet.   Finally we talked one morning, made quick arrangements for me getting my stuff back, at the end of the conversation she says that the reason she does not want to be with me is because she does not want another deadbeat living with her.  Basically, she has been hooked up with men that don't pay for shit or roommates that end up $2000 in the hole to the landlord and don't chip in for utilities. 

Geee.. Ummmmm...  She never had to pay my way for anything the whole time we saw one another, and I was paying for both her and I.    In short, this has left me questioning if she was not perhaps expecting a move in sugar daddy. Thank god for being sick for a whole week and not working.  Previous weekend, I spent around $400.00 covering everything we did, ate and drink.    Anyways, it's really not worth me trying to prove her wrong or otherwise.   Mind you, it feels a lot like a challenge she threw down at my feet.    I was starting to spend too much money on drinking out with her, and I should have been more of a hardass about not drinking and supporting this behavior.  Instead I went into a somewhat passive mode about it, until she would reach of point of being out of control.  I would be telling her no more to drink you've had enough, only to end up being called names and her get physical at times. 

Then again, I've never dated anybody who reacted this way when drinking.   Never been with anybody who got drunk knowing I was on my way to spend Valentines Day night with them.  The sad thing is that she went so much out of her way to make my Birthday special as Hell for me.  Yet, she choose to get all drunk on rum with a couple of hardcore drug users she works with.  She does not do drugs like crack or coke.   However this couple thought I would be able to hook them up with some drugs because the Town I live in is noted for it.   When I finally got there, ended up making it very obvious that I wanted no part of drugs and they took off, mean time, I had a drunk girl friend on my hands.   On one hand, I had a very wonderful Birthday, and Valentines Day was a complete wreck.   She said she needed to get drunk, which is sad.   We talked about everything that happened, and she tried to use excuses but was stopping helfself personally acknowledging her behavior was not excusable.   In many regards, her doing this made me feel that there was hope for change. 

Anyways, what I hate about myself, is that I went into PA mode.  That I actually was not more vocal about my second thoughts about moving in with her.   Instead I was trying like Hell to keep my own word to her about moving in, and come up with relationalizations and placing myself mentally into being her live in White Knight.   All of which are bad things to do.

In the End, I became agreessive, I blew up at her, then felt like shit about it, and was anything but rational and well put together in thoughts and emotions.  All of this ugly ending would have been avoided had I shared more of what was on my mind.  

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 11:52:06 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

In short,


lol..you didn't succeed :P

quote:

I've have been questioning pro's and con's of D/s vs. Non-D/s relationships at the moment. 


just enjoy a re;ation/ No matter what kind it is.
Don't force yourself to a "bdsm"relation. If it happens then it happens.
I can do both myself...although I always mis beeing a Master then...but for the right girl...I can do without.
Just wanna be happy....and so should you be


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 3/29/2008 11:54:31 AM >

_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 12:43:59 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

In many ways, I can understand and see how D/s has perhaps not challenged me enough to face my own PA behaviors.  I'm not saying that I have intentionally used D/s to hide anything about myself or avoid my problems.  However, I finding it rather ironic that D/s can reinforce such bad behaviors, unless one is conscious about it.   I grew up in a family environment that was full of bad PA behaviors from my own family members.   I grew up surrounded by control freaks who really were not happy about their own lives, and the only way they felt happy was to be in control of somebody else besides themselves.  LOL..


My mother is the queen of passive aggression. I, not surprisingly, learned this from her and so used these behaviors to relate to the world until someone pointed it out. I did a LOT of work (and still have to be mindful of it, although there is a certain physical sensation I get that I'm pretty in tune with now). Fortunately, I have found that the Doms and Masters with whom I have associated closely in the last decade have been excellent at clear communication without negative manipulation (they know what they want, they say what they want, there's no need to manipulate).

Passive aggression is only a D/s thing to the extent that it's so pervasive in western individualistic societies, but I will attribute my mindfulness of my owm manipulative behaviors to being in D/s dynamics, being told "If I wanted to hear 'I will enjoy anything you want to do' and then see you pout about it, I'd tell you to do exactly that. Now give me your opinion!" (and other such things). Thus, being the submissive half (or third) of a D/s dynamic made me aware of myself. I will never forget the first time I answered my Sir plainly, without hedging. It was such a heartfelt and joyful "GOOD GIRL!!!" that I was high on it for days.

That is not to say there still aren't moments I slip back into manipulative behaviors but they're easier to see now, and thus easier to correct. After a lifetime of learning to manipulate, ten years learning to not ever do it is nothing (my mother is still extremely manipulative, btw, with everyone including my children and it drives me insane). It's a process, and not a quick or easy one.

Good luck to you, Whiplash. Live mindfully.

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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 12:54:29 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

Anyways, I become agressive in my response to her.  Basically, that I'm not gonna have somebody push me around and make me account for everything little thing I do.  I actually went so far, to say, what the Hell do you want from me a Timesheet?  Look I don't want no mother figure in my life, and I'm not gonna let you play that role.   Me telling you everything little thing I got done today is not happening. Anyways, I felt rather pushed by her, and to be honest, I was sick and tired of going over things back in forth in my mind.  The whole internal struggle that had been going on. I was sick of trying to keep my word and stick to the agreement of me moving in, when I was having so many doubts.  Actually, I was having a difficult time in wanting to stay in this relationship.  

<snip for space> Geee.. Ummmmm...  She never had to pay my way for anything the whole time we saw one another, and I was paying for both her and I.    In short, this has left me questioning if she was not perhaps expecting a move in sugar daddy. <snip> In the End, I became agreessive, I blew up at her, then felt like shit about it, and was anything but rational and well put together in thoughts and emotions.  All of this ugly ending would have been avoided had I shared more of what was on my mind.  


My god, Whiplash. Thinking back over the past few relationships I've had, even with mild sweet loving Aba ... if I'd acted that way, demanding things and blowing up at my Man, I'd have been given walking papers immediately ... or maybe after a good swat in the mouth. I haven't read your profile but I'm assuming you're the Dom, right? And she was supposed to be your sub but she was kind of a switch ... ewww. This doesn't sound like a D/s dynamic to me. It sounds more like a clusterfuck. Be thankful you're done with it but keep the lesson for future reference. Be aware of yourself - don't avoid speaking your mind on these problematic issues (because as you saw it just makes things worse and worse and worse).

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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 1:32:22 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		If there were any passive-aggressive behaviors in your example, I missed them.  You told her you were going to move in, while trying to convince yourself that it would happen.  That's not PA, that's misguided good intentions. LOL.  There were no manipulations in there, no saying something just to get her to shut up when you had NO intention of following through, etc.

And the "aggressive" part of "passive-aggressive" has nothing to do with physical aggression, just to make that clear to anyone reading.

PA means things like:

1.  Agreeing to go somewhere you don't really want to go, then taking so long to get ready that you can't go.  In the end, you got what you wanted (not going), but you were not honest about it up front by just saying "no, I'm not going".  You manipulated the situation so you didn't have to go, after you agreed to go.

2.  Agreeing to make a dessert to bring to your inlaws, even though you don't want to, then not only NOT making the dessert, but wasting so much time that you can't even pick up a dessert at the bakery to bring.  In the end you got what you wanted by manipulating the situation.

3. Telling you that you can pick out a present for your birthday, then getting you something else (probably something cheap and cheesy), and claiming they never told you that you could pick out something. (selective memory)

4.  Agreeing to do a chore (but secretly having no intention of doing it), but stalling so long on it or doing it so poorly that you end up doing it yourself. Then they claim you're just too impatient.

5.  When caught doing something inappropriate, tries to deflect the blame to you or someone else... the old "you were invading my privacy" line.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to batshalom)
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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 1:47:15 PM   
nwcutie102


Posts: 162
Joined: 1/13/2008
Status: offline 		i was married to a PA type. i would rather have the A.... at least they are " out with it" and the blind-siding is minimal. can certainly live without the P

(in reply to CalifChick)
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RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 2:25:05 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

If there were any passive-aggressive behaviors in your example, I missed them.  You told her you were going to move in, while trying to convince yourself that it would happen.  That's not PA, that's misguided good intentions. LOL.  There were no manipulations in there, no saying something just to get her to shut up when you had NO intention of following through, etc.

And the "aggressive" part of "passive-aggressive" has nothing to do with physical aggression, just to make that clear to anyone reading.

PA means things like:

1.  Agreeing to go somewhere you don't really want to go, then taking so long to get ready that you can't go.  In the end, you got what you wanted (not going), but you were not honest about it up front by just saying "no, I'm not going".  You manipulated the situation so you didn't have to go, after you agreed to go.

Well, in a sense I was still agreeing to move in when I was having second thoughts.   Instead of me saying, hey I'm having second thoughts about this and that I was considering changing my mind.   I kept on saying 'yes'.    It's a little difficult because I personally was going back and fourth in my mind about it all.  

quote:


2.  Agreeing to make a dessert to bring to your inlaws, even though you don't want to, then not only NOT making the dessert, but wasting so much time that you can't even pick up a dessert at the bakery to bring.  In the end you got what you wanted by manipulating the situation.

In a sense, if I had honestly had no reservations about moving in, I know I would have busted my ass a little harder and been prepared.   There would have been no confusion over March 15th,  I would have been ready.  This is compares to the making of the dessert kinda. 

There are 3 responses to agreeing to do something  yes, no and maybe.  Basically, I said yes, then got caught up in having second thoughts.  I found myself still saying "yes" because I had made an agreement.  However, the more time that passed the more I started to feel like saying "no" and backing out of the agreement. 

Perhaps I'm being too hard on myself right now.   I just know that it was wrong of me to keep on saying "yes" while I was really uncertain about it one way or another anymore. 

quote:


3. Telling you that you can pick out a present for your birthday, then getting you something else (probably something cheap and cheesy), and claiming they never told you that you could pick out something. (selective memory)

I'm kind of guilty about this with the March 15th agreement we had made.   Basically, we had agreed to this date, however I ended up forgetting about it because of issues with when her roommate was moving out.  Believe it or not, I actually had to stop and think about this some before I honestly remembered it.   As it turns out her roommate was in fact staying there until April 1st.   So march 15th was not a realistic date as I had suspected.  So in a sense, I was right to have had selective memory.  Still when she confronted me about march 15th, I was slow to recall our conversation about it. 

So does this mean I'm Quasi Passive Aggressive? LOL..

quote:


4.  Agreeing to do a chore (but secretly having no intention of doing it), but stalling so long on it or doing it so poorly that you end up doing it yourself. Then they claim you're just too impatient.

Not certain about this one.  Again, I feel like if I had sincerely been 100% into moving in with her, I would have done things much differently.  I know myself when I'm 100% into doing something, I don't hold back and I make a battle plan and get it done doing whatever it takes.   I was not doing this, in this case.

quote:


5.  When caught doing something inappropriate, tries to deflect the blame to you or someone else... the old "you were invading my privacy" line.

Cali


When she questioned me about not being prepared to move in, and drilled me on what I was doing with my time, I basically drew the line in the sand that it was none of her business, and to let me deal with what I needed to do how I felt best.  Basically for her to keep her nose out of my private business.    Don't know, sounds a lot like PA behavior on my End to some degree.

Ok, gang, I've been spilling my guts here.  Is this or is this not PA behavior on my end.   I know the relationship ending was the right and best thing for me.  I don't have any doubts about that one now.   However, I honestly feel that if I had been more assertive, that perhaps she would have been given the opportunities to do something a little different.  It also could have meant the relationship would have ended sooner without all the heartache and a broken agreement.

Mind you I have more less come to terms that perhaps she wanted somebody to live with her, to become her white knight and help her get things under control.  Again, she has had problems being burned and stiffed by a number of roommates in the last couple of years.   One thing is for certain in retrospect, it was too much, too soon and too fast.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 2:37:34 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		sooooo, Whiplash...from the been there, done that - section...you are so off from the real problem that, in my opinion, all you are doing is wearing out the little hamster in your head...the problem is you, it's always been you, until you take care of you - it will continue to be you...this girl was just the latest manifestation of your problem...soooo, quit deflecting - doing the look-at-her-problems-not-mine-and-i'll-throw-in-a-tiny-bit-of-my-surface-stuff-so-they-will-still-think-i-am-concentrating-on-me song and dance and concentrate on you...and with all love for the people on these boards...not here...go to a 12 step group, go to a professional, get help from people, in person, face to face..they won't harm you, i promise....

chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 2:38:00 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I'm not seeing it as PA, as I'm not seeing any manipulation.  The "privacy" thing... your example isn't what I meant.  It would be like her finding a "love note" to another women as a text message on your phone (when you've agreed to be monogamous). Instead of owning up to your error, you attack her for invading your privacy by snooping through your phone.  It's a deflection of guilt technique - whether she should have been on your phone or not is irrelevant to your misdeed.

She had no right to demand to know what you were doing with your time. The better response from you might have been to remind her of that, and to redirect the conversation back to the issue at hand. 

I agree that you could have handled the whole thing better by being more honest with YOURSELF on what was going on.

Cali


_____________________________

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(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 2:48:47 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		I dont believe blaming BDSM is the answer. You have to make good choices whether in a vanilla or D's relationship. If you chose an Achoholic for a vanilla relationship the same result would ensue. I have also seen more than one Dom pick  a self proclaimed perfect slave only to be manipulted and yet the trustworthy honest subs arent worth their time. Guess a man still likes a challenge. But if you see red flags, dont assume you can fix them. You'll end up being manipulted and the lines between who is the Dom and who is the sub will be quite blurred. Bottom line, pick with maturity, pick someone honest and trustworthy and remember to have some boundaries and integrity that goes both ways, IMHO

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Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
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(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 2:50:36 PM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I dont believe blaming BDSM is the answer. You have to make good choices whether in a vanilla or D's relationship. If you chose an Achoholic for a vanilla relationship the same result would ensue. I have also seen more than one Dom pick  a self proclaimed perfect slave only to be manipulted and yet the trustworthy honest subs arent worth their time. Guess a man still likes a challenge. But if you see red flags, dont assume you can fix them. You'll end up being manipulted and the lines between who is the Dom and who is the sub will be quite blurred. Bottom line, pick with maturity, pick someone honest and trustworthy and remember to have some boundaries and integrity that goes both ways, IMHO


I agree with this post.
At some point in our lives, adults are responsible for the choices they make.
Especially the choices we make when chosing a mate.
The evening news is filled with horror stories about vanilla relationships turned sour.

< Message edited by VeryMercurial -- 3/29/2008 2:51:07 PM >

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 4:20:02 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You have a lot of work to do, a lot of changes to make. I don't think you are in shape for any kind of serious relationship now, too easy to use it to avoid facing hard truths. Take time off. get yourself healthy or at least on the road to that, and afterwards just start dating and exploring. Whoever you turn out to be will be a better partner than you're capable of being now.

And you deserve a lot of credit for facing up to your own family problems instead of blaming everything on her. That shows maturity, or the start of it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 4:33:49 PM   
joy2u


Posts: 89
Joined: 2/2/2008
Status: offline 		When i first read the subject line, i thought the PA stood for Pennsylvania and i was really curious about what sort of behavior is particular to Pennsylvania and D/s. 
 Wow, you have a lot of stuff (drama) going on in your life and, honestly, to be even thinking about adding to the drama by moving-in with someone, who you have a rocky history with and who has an issue with alcohol abuse, just seems to be asking for more trouble than you need.   Instead, this seems to me like a good time to be working on your own issues, that you have said you recently realized.  You know, some people are attracted to and even addicted to the adrenaline rush they get from having drama in their life.  So much so, sometimes, that they will try to create drama, if none exists.  But, is that really what you need? Your recent thread on "Negative Pasts, " was very revealing about your concerns over your own alcohol use and one post, in particular, (http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1722297) revealed a great deal of internal pain that i would think you would want to be working on resolving.  Do you realize how many times you used the words "shame" and "ashamed" in that post?  Shame is a very powerful and potentially destructive emotion.  It's something that will eat away at you and keep you stuck in an emotional rut, if it's not dealt with and resolved. Getting into a relationship that ends up revealing so much about yourself (especially the hard to look at and unpleasant to think about stuff) is not a bad thing, as long as you don't just sweep these revelations under the carpet and try to just make the relationship work, without dealing with your issues, first. Having a healthy relationship with someone, requires honest communication with each other, being able to be yourself (without shame or guilt), and being able to deal with 'power issues' (which are part of every relationship, to some degree), without it erupting into a fight every time. There's nothing wrong with being "just a kinky vanilla guy", if that's what you like and that's what feels right for you.  Plenty of people live very happy lives as 'kinky vanilla' couples.  It's okay to try different types of relationships and find out what feels right to you and what brings out your best qualities, even if that means being in no relationship, at all, or friendship-only relationships.   The journey you are on is one of self-discovery and each experience can help you discover who you are and what you want and need to be fulfilled and content and at peace with yourself.  Learn and grow from each experience, deal with the nagging internal issues you have and positive changes can happen in your life. Any way, i offer these thoughts for your consideration and i hope that things will work out for you.  Best wishes to you in your journey. joyOwned servant of Master David

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 7:28:45 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		If you force someone, it will come back on you later as passive reactance. Power mongers fail to realize the import of hidden agression. They only appear in control superficially-the same way masters of historical slaves were-the mind was never owned.

If you truly want to won the whole package-you need to do it with awe and inspiration. You have to light up thier world and shine pretty consistently.

Which means you need to be very thoughtful and have a wide range of vision, so that you can see as many options as possible to pick and choose from as you go. Life cannot be scripted with a pat little rulebook and a boot on the neck.

The be worthy,one must make things worthwhile.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 3/29/2008 7:29:05 PM >

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: PA behavior and D/s vs. non-D/s relationships - 3/29/2008 9:00:42 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I dont believe blaming BDSM is the answer. You have to make good choices whether in a vanilla or D's relationship. If you chose an Achoholic for a vanilla relationship the same result would ensue. I have also seen more than one Dom pick  a self proclaimed perfect slave only to be manipulted and yet the trustworthy honest subs arent worth their time. Guess a man still likes a challenge. But if you see red flags, dont assume you can fix them. You'll end up being manipulted and the lines between who is the Dom and who is the sub will be quite blurred. Bottom line, pick with maturity, pick someone honest and trustworthy and remember to have some boundaries and integrity that goes both ways, IMHO


I honestly don't blame BDSM itself, just questioning a few things right now.   You are right about seeing Red Flags, and me thinking I can perhaps fix them.  In regards to manipulation, I'm having to face a few facts that she was not as innocent as I would have liked to believed in her.  Thank you for your post.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 20
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