Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 3:44:59 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
It's main problem is the fallacy of the false dilemma. The fact that one can write a play about a false dilemma doesn't make it a perfectly apt analogy for real world politics - in fact, far from it.


Completely agree.  This smacks of false dilemma to me as well; the real issue is not to be brain-dead at all.  I know plenty of brain dead liberals and brain dead conservatives, and more so, brain dead people who are neither libearal nor conservative.

Wild generalizations rarely accurately represent the real continuum of facts and reality.


_____________________________

Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 4:56:21 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
I think some of y'all are being a li'l hard on the guy. Imo, he had his tongue in his cheek in many things he said in the piece. But, of course, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Including Mamet.

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 5:16:35 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
Well, this is just my general comment to all but it strikes me that Mamet himself sets up the polarised view of Left and Right  - so it matters not whether those who read the piece think so rigidly themselves, the point is to critique the essay and the essayist.  I haven't viewed the man as any kind of liberal since Oleanna but I'm sure someone who knows much better will put me right.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 5:35:51 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

John Maynard Keynes was twitted with changing his mind. He replied, "When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"

My favorite example of a change of mind was Norman Mailer at The Village Voice.

Norman took on the role of drama critic, weighing in on the New York premiere of Waiting for Godot.

Twentieth century's greatest play. Without bothering to go, Mailer called it a piece of garbage.

When he did get around to seeing it, he realized his mistake. He was no longer a Voice columnist, however, so he bought a page in the paper and wrote a retraction, praising the play as the masterpiece it is.

Every playwright's dream.


http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374064,374064,1.html/full


You ALWAYS put all this shit out that requires THINKING on my part Level!!!!!

Can't you put out stuff that requires beer....or chocolate ice cream?

(I'd do that for you, you know!!!!!)

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 5:46:42 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Well, this is just my general comment to all but it strikes me that Mamet himself sets up the polarised view of Left and Right  - so it matters not whether those who read the piece think so rigidly themselves, the point is to critique the essay and the essayist.  I haven't viewed the man as any kind of liberal since Oleanna but I'm sure someone who knows much better will put me right.


I took a different view of what Mamet was saying. Rather than setting up a polarized view between  liberal and conservative (I've never yet met one person who is totally one or the other, of course, I've never met Cheney, he may be the exception that proves the rule) I took him to mean that as he matured, his views and opinions became less rigid. and he became more open to considering views he had previously rejected out of hand, without having investigated them for himself. For example, he says he never read the "conservative " economists before, and once he had, he reconsidered his views. To me, this is just typical of one of the differences of youth and maturity. As younguns, we think we know everything without having experienced much in reality. As we mature. many folks realize how little we really know.

Anyway, that's my take on it.


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 5:58:16 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

John Maynard Keynes was twitted with changing his mind. He replied, "When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"

My favorite example of a change of mind was Norman Mailer at The Village Voice.

Norman took on the role of drama critic, weighing in on the New York premiere of Waiting for Godot.

Twentieth century's greatest play. Without bothering to go, Mailer called it a piece of garbage.

When he did get around to seeing it, he realized his mistake. He was no longer a Voice columnist, however, so he bought a page in the paper and wrote a retraction, praising the play as the masterpiece it is.

Every playwright's dream.


http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374064,374064,1.html/full


You ALWAYS put all this shit out that requires THINKING on my part Level!!!!!

Can't you put out stuff that requires beer....or chocolate ice cream?

(I'd do that for you, you know!!!!!)


For ya:

quote:

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich., March 26 (UPI) -- A Grand Rapids, Mich., barbershop owner said the state attorney general's office has put a stop to a promotion that offered patrons a free beer with a haircut.

Thomas Martin, owner of Jude's Barbershops, said an assistant attorney general ruled that his businesses cannot distribute free brews without a liquor license, the Grand Rapids (Mich.) Press reported Wednesday.

The ruling came after police told Martin his free beer promotion violated state and local laws.

"I'm glad we finally got clarity on the issue," Martin said. "Offering a complimentary beer is not something that we created, it's an old-fashioned service that was done years ago. We just brought it back with the other old-fashioned services that we provide." Martin said he plans to work with state legislators to legalize the complimentary booze service.





_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 6:02:22 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

As we mature. many folks realize how little we really know.


Cjan, the older I get, the more I realize that my ignorance dwarfs what I know.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 6:15:53 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
It's not unheard of for people who make serious money to undergo a change opposite to Mamet's.  Having made it to the board, some find themselves arguing for tougher tax laws (especially here, where a canny millionaire can pay less tax than an average person and a billionaire, virtually nothing) and at least for a fairer distribution of the tax burden as an overall percentage of income.

Its a bit of a truism that age turns everyone conservative.  Clever to suggest that those who don't are either stupid or mad, though.

< Message edited by RealityLicks -- 3/26/2008 6:17:08 PM >

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 6:21:31 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

It's not unheard of for people who make serious money to undergo a change opposite to Mamet's.  Having made it to the board, some find themselves arguing for tougher tax laws (especially here, where a canny millionaire can pay less tax than an average person and a billionaire, virtually nothing) and at least for a fairer distribution of the tax burden as an overall percentage of income.

Its a bit of a truism that age turns everyone conservative.  Clever to suggest that those who don't are either stupid or mad, though.


Warren Buffet would be a good example of that, I think?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 6:47:24 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
Maybe, but I was thinking more of tax changes than charitable giving, laudable as that is. 

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 6:56:03 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
Let me dig a second, I think he called for higher taxes, RL.
 
Here we go:

quote:

Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: “The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/tax/article1996735.ece


_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 7:07:42 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It is a nice article...David is now sixty and rich. It's funny that a friend of mine that was pro choice while dating has now become pro life now that he has married and probably won't be knocking anyone up anytime soon.

I think that the term liberal is a poor definition or catch all. If you care about the environment you are a liberal...Why can't I be viewed as being conservative when it comes to fucking up this planet's air and water?



Getting married does that to some people. Makes them more mature and maybe rethink some of their priorities and beliefs. Others who actually believe that conservatives like having bad air and water will continue to be brain dead.
Anyone else see the ironic cognitive dissonance between "Boycott Whales" and the above statement?

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/26/2008 11:20:35 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
I don't know why some people continue to call Bush a Republican, he's not.
He's nothing but a mouthpiece for Big Business, they got "their guy" in.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/29/2008 4:58:53 AM   
Manawyddan


Posts: 701
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Petaluma (Northern California)
Status: offline
That quotation has always irked the crap out of me, more so given that I was extremely politically conservative when I was younger, and have become increasingly left-wing as I've gotten older.

And anyone who idolised JFK ... is so politically clueless it doesn't surprise me that they'd 'discover' that there were problems with liberalism.



_____________________________

_______________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor"
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
_______________________________________________

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal - 3/29/2008 7:43:44 AM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

C'mon...For the majority it has nothing to do with "maturing." It has to with being a hypocrite. We criticize drug use when "we" are no longer taking drugs...We criticize the sexual lifestyle of others when "we" no longer partake in a lifestyle that is sexual.


I haven't partaken in everyone's sexual lifestyle yet...so, for the next 3 months I ain't saying shit.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 35
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.219