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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/18/2008 4:15:53 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBlueTiger

O.K. I am working to revamp my profile to include more lifestyle stuff and was looking for a little imput. Now I have seen a lot of people use the terms sub and slave in different ways. Sometimes interchangeably, sometimes in opposition to one another. Wondering what the common definitions on here were. For reference here is how I have been defining them-
submissive-somone who enjoys submitting for submittings sake. For the actual physical pleasure that comes from related activities.

Am I the only one that got lost after the word OK???

BadOne

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 1:02:50 AM

Quadrum

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The way i see it for a very long time now is that sub - slave is like cat -dog.

a sub/cat will do what you say, thought it might complain and play around with you just for the tease of it all.
a sub/cat also has to be cuddle whenever it wants to, it will lay on you, whenever and however it likes.

While the slave/dog does not or rarely complain. It will rarely or not at all tease with you. It follows orders as they were given by a superior being.
It will cuddle you, but will hold itself back to be certain that you want it.

There are many was to think of this as people say. But it is up to you to decide what you are and what you do with it.

This is how I think of this.

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 1:15:21 AM

chaosforge

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oh no, my inner cat raises her hackle.
Qdm- i see what you're going for....and yet....
-just phoenix, the slave, whose inner child ran away from home, and left the door open, and that's how the inner cat got in...long story, i'll stop now.

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 1:44:56 AM

Justme696

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I have myself a difference between sub or slave(/kajira). This is just my opinion, and recently I met a sub..that acted more towards beeing slave.
Does that make her a slave or a sub? I am confused by times. There for I focus on the person, not more on the title.

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 2:00:07 AM

MD1Master

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To be technical, I consider "slave" a subset of "submissives." Therefore, all slaves are submissives but not all submissives are slaves. In addition, there is also a potential negative connotation with the term "slave" which given social norms. Rather than confuse the issues with titles and potential lose your potential partner due to an issue of definition, I recommend elaborating within your profile.

You indicated you want a potential long-term relationship, if this is true than an interested partner will take the time to read your entire profile. Elaborate and articulate your desires and interests.

I also believe there within the confines of this site, the participants most likely will not come to a concensus regarding an absolute definition of the terms. Do not limit yourself to strict definitions. You also may find that the individual relationship defines the terms relative to your specific relationships.

It is always best to articulate your interests as much as possible. Therefore as much is known upfront as possible. Best of luck to you!

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 2:06:27 AM

faithfulfemme

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As i have been involved in several groups/clubs where there were a number of M/s relationships, which in itself surely doesn't make me any kind of expert on the definitions of slave vs submissive, nonetheless my membership gave me an opportunity to experience what i thought were the differences and thus, create an opinion.

Anyway, from my personal viewpoint it seems to me that the main difference between slaves and submissives is that slaves are not allowed hard/soft limits nor safe words, and submissives are.

Of course, everyone has the right to walk away from anything dangerous or that which could possibly cause great bodily and/or mental harm; however, the slaves i've known were required to always obey their Masters in whatever it was that was asked or demanded of them. Without fail, and without refusal.

Whereas in the case of submissives they are allowed to have hard limits, soft limits and a safe word, which then opens the door for them to refuse what is asked of them from their Dom/mes, albeit with a very good reason.

This might just be a regional custom/issue, and have absolutely nothing to do with what one from, say, the midwest would consider to be the differences between a slave and a submissive. Every Master, Dom/me and/or Mistress has their own set of definitions as to what constitutes a slave and a submissive, and as was suggested to you by cherry it would be a good idea to put YOUR definitions in your profile so that those who read it will know instantly what it is you are looking for and whether or not they fit your criteria.

Good luck......i hope your find who you seek....

.

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 3:46:34 AM

Goddess2002

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaosforge

submissive is to Dom/me what slave is to Master/Mistress
this can and will be viewed differantly by others.
to be a slave, you must be owned by another.
-just phoenix

My gosh...I just had flashbacks of my GRE exam...

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 3:53:52 AM

Goddess2002

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I think you'll find lots of different variables of what constitutes a sub/slave...certainly a lot of people have a general notion then adapt the difinition as it fits their situation. For example, my slave has a safeword and I do take his feelings into consideration when making decisions. Some people may see this more along the submissive line, but whatever suits. I can't resist throwing in the "tomato...tomahto" cliche.

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 5:25:45 AM

colouredin

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FR

Some people have told me I am more like a slave than a sub, others have told me I am not at all sub, some people think im more sub than Masters slave, sometimes Masters slave says she doesnt even feel sub, lol we could spend all day banging on about the labels, I applied the one sub to me purely cos I dont like the word slave, no two people are the same so neither are two subs/slaves i dont really care about the words and in a relationship context i would assume it would be me that they were interested in not the title.

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 5:34:12 AM

Luciferica

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We compromised with "Pet" ourselves, it's a little of both and I don't feel like an asshole calling him that.

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 7:34:36 AM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

While it's not so much the act of what each does, it's the mindset they feel they get into.

Probably one of the most astute observations about virtually every sort of kink. Including the much debated difference between "submissive vs slave".

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 7:37:14 AM

Leatherist

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Main difference between subs and slaves I have noticed.

A sub generally likes to submit to a vision she creates-and a Dom simply enables that vision.

A slave wants to submit to the vision the Master creates. If she has to create it-it's not seen as valid.

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 7:46:54 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

submissive is to Dom/me what slave is to Master/Mistress

chaos,

Short and to the point / well said.

CP

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 7:56:57 AM

chaosforge

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CP- Thank you much.
and i'll add,
HOORAW for us slaves with safewords, and HOORAW for our sadistic Masters that take evil pleasure in making us use them!
-just phoenix

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 8:00:11 AM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

While it's not so much the act of what each does, it's the mindset they feel they get into.

Probably one of the most astute observations about virtually every sort of kink. Including the much debated difference between "submissive vs slave".

I find myself in agreement with both of these responces. When I comment that I know bugger all about submissives, I refer to those who i knolw who have well defined rules on what they will and will not enter in, behaviourse pattgerns and areas which is not part of their submission. Perhaps i was spoiled for almost ten years as a Gorean Lifestyle master ewhere a slave (kajera) submitted completely with no reserved areas unless I allowed them (common sence worked there) and she was my property. Her limits in the event of BDSM became part of my limits and thus in time safe words etc became unnecessory unless I required them for any new venture. I refer of course to a 24/7 TPE relationship. Slaves I do know and to be frank I see as many slaves who act like submisives and submissives who in my eyes are more like slaves. .I have found however that few submissives are interested in service and more interested in BDSM Play, where I do fine most slaves at least accept service as a natural part of their slavery and BDSM is just a fun part or something which they will be involved in because their Master likes it. .. Ultimately, I will make the decision how I refer to somone based on their actions and attitude and not on what tyey refer to themselves as.

Iron Bear
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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 8:15:03 AM

chaosforge

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if one mentions having a submissive, they might get questions or knowing glances.
mention having a slave and the responce might be different... or knowing glances... life is funny that way.
-just phoenix

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 8:27:49 AM

joy2u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBlueTiger

Short answer: sub v slave is a pointless discussion. The members of this site have been down that road before (too many times for many of us) and it is nothing more than a vicious (sometimes, very vicious) cycle.

Everyone is different, regardless of what they call themself. No two people are the same, whether they both call themself "submissive", "slave", "pet", "servant" or, any other adjective or noun they might come up with. No two are going to have the same exact definition of what these terms mean to them.

To me, it's really too bad that this site requires all who register a profile on it to classify themself as one of 4 labels, especially since most people are far more complex than a single label would make them out to be.

But, this is where dialogue between the people considering a relationship with each other is crucial. Talk about the terms that you consider relavent to what you seek in a relationship and say what these terms mean to you and ask what these terms mean to them. Discuss, discuss, discuss, until you realize that you are either on the same page or, close enough that you can give it a go with the other person or, that you are not seeing things the same way and will probably be at odds with each other if you get into a relationship with them, (then again, it might just be that an antagonistic relationship is what you are looking for).

quote:

You could say I'm just not entirely sure how to translate these things into my profile as to be simple and not confusing.

As i see it, this is the crux of your predicament. You need to define, for yourself, what you are looking for in a relationship and what qualities and character traits you desire in the person you would like to have a relationship with. State it, as clearly and honestly as you can, and try not to restrict your search to one label over the other.

quote:

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Hope this was of some help to you.

Edited to add: Also, i feel it's important to remember that life is about change. Life isn't static and people aren't static. Circumstances change, people change. What you feel that you want and need today might not be what you want and need a few years down the road. Being flexible in your definitions can go a longggg way.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

< Message edited by joy2u -- 3/19/2008 8:40:22 AM >

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 9:35:58 AM

kaleique

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quote:

then there are folks who don't submit at all, yet still affix the submissive label to themselves... they'd call themselves purple-spotted goats if it meant they'd be getting their itch scratched.

hope that's helpful for you and best of luck with your new profile!

I think I'll start calling myself a purple-spotted goat. It might be easier to explain than the whole sub vs slave thing....
That being said I have to agree with most everyone else here and say that everyone has their own definitions. If you want to make sure you get what you're looking for instead of defining it in one word try explaining in detail what it is you want from your sub/slave/purple-spotted goat. I know I'd be far more likely to respond to a profile where the person describes in detail what they're looking for because then I know if we have common ground to start from.

< Message edited by kaleique -- 3/19/2008 9:36:37 AM >

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 10:32:03 AM

joy2u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

A slave wants to submit to the vision the Master creates. If she has to create it-it's not seen as valid.

This statement is the truest description of me, in terms of what i need in a relationship. This is the reason why i was never satisfied in any of my D/s or vanilla relationships and why, with a lot of soul searching, i finally came to the realization that i needed to be in a 24/7, TPE, M/s relationship, with someone who would tell me what He wanted and ask me if i could live with that, rather than asking me what i would like. He had to be the leader so that i could choose to be the follower (or not).

As my Master's servant, my main duty is to enhance His life by helping Him to fulfill His vision. And, my success in doing that is what fulfills me.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: Subs versus Slaves? - 3/19/2008 10:48:18 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

submissive-somone who enjoys submitting for submittings sake. For the actual physical pleasure that comes from related activities.
slave-somone who submits out of a desire to serve others. Gains pleasure from the thought that they are pleasing and serving somone else more from the actual physical act.
I don't consider either to be inately superior. To each their own. Personally from the way I define them I am looking for somone who is more of a slave mentality, but am worried that their may be some confusion between the two.

I am confused between the two honestly, as to your interpretation anyways.

This is such a black and white, narrow view of the motivations of why people enjoy what they enjoy, and their motivations to submit to another. I would also wonder why you want someone with such narrow motivation to be submissive to you. Can't a submissive sort want to please people? Can't a slave enjoy the physical activities around BDSM? Are you looking for someone who will not enjoy those activities?

I just thought I would let you know... my Daddy enjoys pleasing people. He gives of himself to be helpful to others. He gives his time to things he can see that will make the world a better place. He isn't submissive nor a slave. I just wanted to ask you, what are your motivations to dominate? Are they to give as much as you take from the submissive sort, or is your motivation just to make use of hers?

julia

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