Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing?

Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (Full Version)

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SassySarijane -> Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 12:50:24 PM)
Very recently, on a group I belong to locally, a question was asked by a new dom due to something he'd read about. He called it flying and said according to the book, it described it as a place where the sub is totally immersed in it to where he/she is in a state of euphoria so deep it's drugged-like. He went on to say that while he and his sub have a good time and plenty of enjoyment, that nothing like that has ever happened and he was wondering if he was missing something, perhaps doing something wrong that they hadn't had it happen. He also said that while books talk about it, they don't explain how to get the sub to that point and he wanted to know the how and if anyone had any suggestions. To me it sounded like subspace and I commented that it did seem like that, to which another dom stated that no, it was a different thing than subspace and that while he wasn't a sub, he'd both watched and topped subs that went flying. He went on to say that from their feedback to him, subspace is like being in “the zone” and flying is more an actual high in which subs got to the point that nothing seemed to hurt them anymore and they barely knew where they were and acted like someone way out of it on drugs. He said subs have told him there's no comparison. I replied that subspace isn't exactly the same for everyone and some can and do go “deeper” than others and react differently and the difference seems to me to be more of the intensity and depth rather than a totally different thing. My response and opinion is based on my experiences, observations, and conversations and reading/discussion in various avenues. Everything he described, I've heard described under subspace and have personally experienced some of it. This has got me very curious to hear others' views on this. Are they the same thing or two different things? I figure as long as you're enjoying whatever you call it, and it works for you, it's all good and it doesn't really matter what you call it.

RCdc -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 1:05:53 PM)
Meh, they say tomatoe, you say tomato. Some people wouldn't even call it flying, but bottom space. There are so many variations on similar themes it gets mindblowing. I have done what some might consider 'flying' I have also been in complete subheadspace. It all comes down to the way someone wants to describe a moment. As long as someone explains the moment and doesn't rely on one simple word to describe it, is all good. Needs to be a fucking 'offical' dictionary.[;)] the.dark.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 1:29:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark It all comes down to the way someone wants to describe a moment. As long as someone explains the moment and doesn't rely on one simple word to describe it, is all good. Took the words out of my mouth...well...out of my fingers. [8D] I call it flying, soaring, subspace, loopy (beyond my typical loopiness, lol), spaced, zoned, in la la land (again, beyong my typical state). Whatever I'm in the mood to call it, I call it. Master just enjoys when I lose myself in the moment as he likes watching what I do. I say it all depends on what someone wants to call it. I'm not so interested in breaking it all down, I just love being there and feel privileged he lets me.

DesFIP -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 1:38:14 PM)
I call it floating and yes, it's subspace. Some people go deeper than others. As far as what it takes to get there, different for each of us. I go from sensory deprivation not from pain. Others go from rhythmic pain, slow warm up, no abrupt changes. Others from hard pain from the get-go. A book can't teach how to get everyone there, because we're all different. I'm curious as to the book name though.

SassySarijane -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 1:43:17 PM)
I can ask which book he was referring to if you like. They have both asked me to let them know what the replies indicate too lol, and the one who disagreed with me is the one who suggested using it as a topic in my yahoo group and is very curious as to what the consensus will be. I just went for an ever wider range of views by asking here as well as my group.

GabrielleSlave -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 1:45:27 PM)
i agree. There are always going to be words/phrases that mean different things to different people no matter what. All i can say is that bottom space/subspace is where i am usually, give or take some specific moments ie it would not do to be in bottom space when talking to my ex husband lol! Flying however, to me, is a whole different kettle of fish... i have only truly been in that place a few times and to me it's almost a hynotic, trance-like state which can take a fair while to really come down from. Gabrielle x

SassySarijane -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 3:22:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP A book can't teach how to get everyone there, because we're all different. I'm curious as to the book name though. I asked and he just replied that it was Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns he read it in.

SixFootMaster -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 3:23:59 PM)
An old book indeed, but one that is an excellent primer for people getting started or vanilla's wanting to find out more. Six.

RCdc -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 3:39:59 PM)
Ooo... I don't remember it saying that? Mind its really a tongue in cheek book too. Can he say which chapter/section? I'd like to re-examine what it says - might be interesting as I havent read it fully in years. the.dark.

SassySarijane -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 4:22:10 PM)
I can ask if he recalls. I've got a copy of it myself, but haven't got to it yet. Still working on Consentual Sadomasochism.

SassySarijane -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 5:14:14 PM)
Ok, the.dark, I was told page 171 and checked in my copy and there it was: Flying Ground Control to Master Tom

RCdc -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 5:17:24 PM)
Thank you! I will take a look! the.dark.

SassySarijane -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 5:18:57 PM)
You are very welcome [:)].

MaamJay -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 6:40:50 PM)
As I have both seen it (as a Domme watching subs) and experienced it myself as a sub, I tend to see all of these as part of a continuum that I generally call subspace. I wouldn't just call it bottom space because it's not only induced by bottoming in the sense of having some specific play activity, although admittedly that is the usual way to enter. i can certainly get into the early stages of it (up to stage 5 below) just sitting in a restaurant if Master notices i had a naughty thought which i didn't utter ... and decides to insist that i speak it out LOL! How to get me all squirmy and giggly! From My observation (bearing in mind We attended and ran play parties so I have seen more subs than I have personally played with), I came up with a numerical scale. NOT EVERYONE'S SCALE WILL BE IDENTICAL but this seems to apply to most. It works on odd numbers, the even numbers are a deepening of the stage before and transition into the next. Also it's not essential to obviously pass through each stage on the way to the next one, sometimes the transition is so fast that you seem to skip a stage. As a sub i can get from 1 to 5 frighteningly fast sometimes LOL! 1 Normal every day space 3 Fuzzy space ... extra awareness of your Dominant, enhanced focus, feeling of "warm and fuzzy", excited, anticipatory. Lots of things get subs to here ... getting naked, seeing or feeling certain toys, a few smacks, a strong voice, certain whispered words, rituals ... there's that thrill of being under control 5 Mega alert space ... in the zone, totally aware of your Dominant, total focus, painful stimuli hurt a lot, but your brain wants more ... largely induced by adrenalin, this is a bit of a fight or flight space for some. I have seen some subs go through anger at this stage and snarl and swear, others thrash and fight their bonds etc, whereas i (and another girl i know) go through giggle space ... the internal conflict between "this is ridiculous, why is this (pain, embarrassment or whatever) happening?" and "why do i crave it so much and want more?" is what really sets this stage apart for me and that's why i go off into peals of laughter at myself 7 Hurts so goooood space ... endorphins kick in, pleasure kicks in, you feel you can take anything, bodies rise up to meet the blows, cognitive thought is pretty hard to do, can hardly count or string 2 words together (so Dominants, this isn't the time to rely on safewords!), mmmmm this little visit to la la land (or goo goo land) is lovely, do i have to come back now? Sometimes i have experienced cathartic tears at this stage, just bawled my eyes out but felt so much better for it afterwards, and I have seen others do that too, sometimes between stages 5 and 7. i need grounding from here, whereas from stage 5 i can generally get back on my own 9 Deep Space 9 (OK so I'm a trekkie LOL!) ... flying, floating, soaring, out of it, spaced out, out of body, totally la la, in heaven ... unable to move, this is the only state in which i can kneel for any length of time and actually voluntarily move into that position, or i just sink to the floor ... i need a lot of patient grounding from here including specific instructions and assistance to move into a different position ... don't expect me to use my brain much for a while LOL, or my body ... don't take me here if You want dinner in a hurry and You don't want to be the one cooking it! Would be interested in knowing how many folks recognise similar stages themselves! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Griswold -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 6:43:29 PM)
Yes...flying and subspace differ.... Flying, of course, is leaving gravity behind, if but for a short time....subspace is kind of like...well....leaving gravity behind for a short time..... (Okay...they're the same....never mind).

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 7:20:37 PM)
Saying that X experience in X way is the one and only "subspace" is just silly- as bad as that article which pops up occasionally saying you can't have an orgasm AND be in subspace at the same time. If you want to define it so tightly for yourself, go for it. But applying it universally with just be unnecessarily restrictive to all. Kinky people really DO have a fetish for being right by making the "right answer" into what specifically they want it to be.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 7:25:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay Would be interested in knowing how many folks recognise similar stages themselves! Maam Jay aka violet[A] Hi MaamJay, I know of a few people who would recognize such stages. Since I do not reach my floaty, spacy, loopy, la-la land through pain, that part of it didn't pertain to me. But I did like your Deep Space 9 comment, and I do love being at that point, even if I get there by other means. [:)]

SassySarijane -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 7:28:00 PM)
MaamJay, love the Deep Space 9 lol and so much of what you wrote is so very familiar. Thank you.

chatondamore -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 9:41:49 PM)
At a demo i was at recently, the Demonstrator referred to the place beyond subspace as "Abandon". It was kind of a nice way to describe that fully gone feeling where you are no longer able to express even "Ow" or "Damn that hurt".

SailingBum -> RE: Flying and Subspace: Different or the Same Thing? (2/29/2008 9:59:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatondamore At a demo i was at recently, the Demonstrator referred to the place beyond subspace as "Abandon". It was kind of a nice way to describe that fully gone feeling where you are no longer able to express even "Ow" or "Damn that hurt". Ive only seen/heard of that in nam. Where the guy was seriously fucked up ie the guys guts are spilling out from a land mine or some such other horrific event. It's the bodys self defense where the pain turns off. There is a medical explaination for it but damn if I can remember it. You have got to be really fucked up to expereince it tho. BadOne

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