RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded!

RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded! (Full Version)

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Muttling -> RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded! (2/11/2008 1:27:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 How can you say you are losing a war at the same time as saying the troops succeeded? If the war is lost, then that means the troops failed to accomplish the primary goals of the operation. And every one of our soldiers will tell you that. I strongly suggest you study the history of the war in Vietnam. Our troops decisively won every major battle including the Tet Offensive. Yet we lost the war. Iraq is a different enemy and a different fight, but it is a major fiasco in a battle where our troops have decisively won engagement after engagement. Now they are FINALLY being given the resources they need to accomplish the political goals and it is making a HUGE difference. The tide IS turning, but only because the dumb assed administration decided to listen to what the Pentagon and others have been saying for more than 3 years.

Owner59 -> RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded! (2/11/2008 4:51:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 How can you say you are losing a war at the same time as saying the troops succeeded? If the war is lost, then that means the troops failed to accomplish the primary goals of the operation. And every one of our soldiers will tell you that. The Democrats are trying to walk a fine line of supporting the troops but bashing the war. Im so tired of the double-talk. If you want to say the war is a failure...fine, say it. But you cant have it both ways. If the war is a failure, then our troops have failed as well. It's like a football coach saying. "Well we lost this game but our players won it." The logic of the statement is flawed. No matter how hard or how wonderful your players played the game, even running up some record-breaking stats, they still lost the game. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8422.html Yeah,the world,....real complicated and hard to understand. For some.

joanus -> RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded! (2/11/2008 5:11:31 AM)
What can you expect from a group of People who can't deffine the word "is". We are not talking about the brightest crayons in the box, nor are they the sharpest.

Owner59 -> RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded! (2/11/2008 5:27:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 However violence overall has decreased. Sure ,flood any area with GIs,and violence will decrease. So what? That`s what they do,and well. The whole fucking purpose of the "surge" was "to give time to the Iraqis" to get their shit together.Well,they haven`t. We gave then that precious time,at the cost of precious lives and billions of our dollars,and they haven`t done jack shit in those areas.The Iraq government is just as fractured and fucked up as ever. General Pitraeus has said more than once,that no progress can be made in Iraq,without the government factions(Sunni/Shea) also making progress. General Pitraeus just said (six months ago) that he needed six more months to see if the "surge is working". He just fucking said the other day(six months later ,btw)that he needs another six months to determine if the fucking surge is working or not.WTF? Another six months after that,and it`ll be 2009. Misery accomplished. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/22/petraeus-i-need-another-_n_82748.html "Gen. David Petraeus, however, appeared on NBC this morning and rebutted the declarations of mission accomplished and said that he'll need at least another Friedman Unit before he can make a judgment: We think we won't know that we've reached a turning point until we're six months past it. We have repeatedly said that there is no lights at the end of the tunnel that we're seeing. We're certainly not dancing in the end zone or anything like that. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/washington/10cnd-Petraeus.html?_r=1&oref=slogin A letter the general wrote to his troops on Friday outlines some of the arguments he is likely to use before Congress. The general conceded that the hope that Iraqi leaders would take advantage of the American military’s effort to tamp down violence to make political headway “has not worked out as we had hoped.” But he asserted that American forces had achieved “tactical momentum,” and stressed that American troops were forging successful alliances with local Sunni tribal leaders.

LadyHathor -> RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded! (2/11/2008 5:46:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Again you are promoting a flawed arguement. If your football team did everything the coach said, and performed well, and the reason they lost was because of coaching strategy....do they not still lose the game? Do you think it makes them feel better that the reason they lost was because of the coach? But, this is politics. I guess its not supposed to be logical. What the Democrats fail to understand is that we are ONE country. We win as a country and we lose as a country. If we lose in Iraq, we ALL lose. If we win, we ALL win. *However, your example is flawed, when a team looses continually--the coach is replaced--here we just put in more soldiers to die, never replacing the strategists.* We are not one country any longer, we are fractured into so many ethnic interest groups, political interest groups, religious interest groups, life issue groups, etc etc etc etc--we cannot even agree on the definition of freedom. We do not win or lose as a country, the supporting interest group will come out the winner--the only time we were one country recently was for 6 months after 911--now we are back to squabling little children. IMHO the only time we band together and agree is when the shit hits the fan in our own house. But that is what freedom is, I suppose, the right to disagree, I just wish it meant the agreement to disagree but work toward resolution. *<these are My opinions only paid for by the LadyHathor PAC>*

Owner59 -> RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded! (2/11/2008 6:46:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHathor quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Again you are promoting a flawed arguement. If your football team did everything the coach said, and performed well, and the reason they lost was because of coaching strategy....do they not still lose the game? Do you think it makes them feel better that the reason they lost was because of the coach? But, this is politics. I guess its not supposed to be logical. What the Democrats fail to understand is that we are ONE country. We win as a country and we lose as a country. If we lose in Iraq, we ALL lose. If we win, we ALL win. *However, your example is flawed, when a team looses continually--the coach is replaced--here we just put in more soldiers to die, never replacing the strategists.* We are not one country any longer, we are fractured into so many ethnic interest groups, political interest groups, religious interest groups, life issue groups, etc etc etc etc--we cannot even agree on the definition of freedom. We do not win or lose as a country, the supporting interest group will come out the winner--the only time we were one country recently was for 6 months after 911--now we are back to squabling little children. IMHO the only time we band together and agree is when the shit hits the fan in our own house. But that is what freedom is, I suppose, the right to disagree, I just wish it meant the agreement to disagree but work toward resolution. *<these are My opinions only paid for by the LadyHathor PAC>* We are not one country any longer, we are fractured into so many ethnic interest groups, political interest groups, religious interest groups, life issue groups, etc etc etc etc--we cannot even agree on the definition of freedom I have to disagree with this. We are very united,against this useless,costly, counter productive war. The republicans have been calling for America to unite,it just wasn`t around the policy of the neo-cons though.We united against it. There`s nothing wrong with America or us.We are willing to do what ever`s needed,to help and contribute. We are good nation filled w/ folks who are brave and heroic.We just need leadership that`s deserving of them. Don`t let the wrangle upset you.It`s hot in the kitchen at times. They don`t argue much in places like Russia and China.We should embrace our freedom to argue and wrangle. Given a choice,most would prefer the wrangle over the alternative.

Aubre -> RE: Pelosi: Iraq is a failure. But the troops succeeded! (2/11/2008 7:39:24 AM)
Nancy Pelosi, you can't have it both ways. In my mind, running Al-Qaeda out of Iraq and also getting the Sunnis to work with us are huge victories. No matter how you view conditions of victory and this operation, you can't deny that the Democrats aren't really going to be able to use this as an issue in the election as much as they desired.

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