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RE: Flags - 2/10/2008 9:19:13 AM

SubbieOnWheels

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Aneirin, it seems to me that citizens of most countries don't feel the need to wave a flag to prove their patriotism. That (except for, apparently, during the World Cup) is best expressed quietly through good citizenship and service.for some reason Americans feel compelled to shout their loyalty, and even to question the loyalty and patriotism of those who don't feel it's necessary to profess that loyalty by displaying the flag.

I am a loyal American. If my actions (voting, serving on a jury without complaint, working to change unjust and ill-conceived laws, etc.) aren't enough to convince others of that fact, then perhaps those others need to re-examine the meaning of their own loyalty.

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RE: Flags - 2/10/2008 9:34:48 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Aside from some, no one seems that proud to fly the flag of their country for some reason. Could that reason be they feel not of that flag or not proud of it? What could this be saying things that were, countries etc are now largely obsolete?

The things we really have going for us have nothing whatsoever to do with nationalism and flags. Plus, I think the region is more important than the nation in England; as an example, when Italian, Scottish, English, German, French, Welsh whatever football teams play, English fans stand out for one reason: on the English national flags the name of the city or town that the person comes from, will be written across the middle of the national flag - I've never seen any other nation's sporting fans do that. It shows the importance and pride we place on our towns and cities.

In terms of the nation state being obsolete in the British Isles, there's a lot more mileage in the nation if this lot is anything to go by:

Welsh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpYogExUngU

English fans in Germany (with a few flags and town/city names thrown in for good measure)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CZyoAFGpbY&NR=1

Scottish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybxfZoT6VHQ

The Irish against England at Croke Park:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6-bYixpYE&feature=related

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RE: Flags - 2/10/2008 9:42:47 AM

MissMorrigan

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The problem as I see it, if a person in the UK flies a flag (take the St George's Cross for instance) it is now associated with racial discontent. I don't feel I am English as such, sure I was born and raised in England, however, my ancestry is a mixture of Russian-jew, Irish and English. The same negative connotations are not associated with the Welsh or Scottish flags, which I find odd b/c the St George/St Andrew's flags were combined to create the Union Flag, so why is it frowned upon for the English to proudly display their heritage? I would like it explained b/c I really don't quite 'get it'. It's a shame that minority group arseholes latch onto something, as with the BNP, and the St George's flag then becomes associated with them.

If I am going to fly ANY flag, it will be the Union Flag.

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RE: Flags - 2/10/2008 9:50:21 AM

KenDckey

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To me the Flag means much more than patriotism. The flag represents my brothers and sisters that have gone before me. It represents the core values of society and honors those values. It does not represent a party, or a person, or even a group of people. It represents all people. To see people descricrate it bothers me to no end. In my eyes, they are saying, bend to my way or I will destroy you, thus show disrespect to everyone.

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RE: Flags - 2/10/2008 9:55:06 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

The problem as I see it, if a person in the UK flies a flag (take the St George's Cross for instance) it is now associated with racial discontent.

No chance. Here's another clip of England fans in Germany - Frankfurt this time - no problems flying the Cross of St George there. There's nigh on 200 English flags in the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfoaJirXMJQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

so why is it frowned upon for the English to proudly display their heritage?

I don't see any evidence of this. Do you mean because a house couldn't display a flag the size of a small African nation on the side of it? It had nothing to do with the flag, it was because neighbours didn't want to look out of their window and have this massive flag blocking their view. 'Sounds fair enough to me.

I think if we changed our national anthem, you'd see an upsurge in patriotism because a) God Save The Queen is bordering on stupidity and b) in our minds, we know it's the British anthem.

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Post #: 45

RE: Flags - 2/10/2008 10:02:38 AM

MissMorrigan

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No no, quite the opposite, NG. I have heard views from a wide section of people I talked with personally, and also read views posted by those I don't, regarding the St George's Flag, they had NO problem with the Union Flag being displayed, but a lot of minorities felt they were being further pushed out by those displaying the St George's Flag. I have asked why, they feel it's b/c it's associated with the BNP as the BNP adopted it to show their patriotism when putting their 'keep britain white' message across. Yet it was the same process with the National Front and the Union Flag. I genuinely just don't understand it, NG, hence my question.

If it was a simple case of it being a huge flag blocking the view I'd agree wholeheartedly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I don't see any evidence of this. Do you mean because a house couldn't display a flag the size of a small African nation on the side of it? It had nothing to do with the flag, it was because neighbours didn't want to look out of their window and have this massive flag blocking their view. 'Sounds fair enough to me.

I think if we changed our national anthem, you'd see an upsurge in patriotism because a) God Save The Queen is bordering on stupidity and b) in our minds, we know it's the British anthem.

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Post #: 46