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Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 7:49:25 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Background:  One of the groups in our local scene is going through one of those routine petty years old vengeances that come to a boil before being swept under the rug and pretended it doesn't exist for a few more years things.

Someone in the discussion said this:
Can we as a group of people who encourage and enjoy activities like peeing on each other and stabbing each other with needles really be referred to as "polite society?" God I hope not. If so, I signed up for the wrong cruise.

I replied with this:
As for me, I'm the first to admit that kinky people in general are way too uptight about things and behaviors and need to go with the flow a lot more.

However, and I know we've been down this discussion before, I don't see any reason why my personal relationship orientation, and my kinky activities should have anything to do with being a polite mature person who can handle herself well in social situations.

I have no problem with someone being an asshole, a cruel person who really gets off on hurting others and beating the crap out of them and making them cry and freezing them outside for an hour just to beat them some more and make them drive home immediately after- that WAS my ex owner and he's a great guy.

I have a problem with someone doing those things in general company without a mutual understanding in place or using it as an excuse to act improperly in other social contexts. Being kinky or sadistic has no bearing on how people should act or react in nuetral social situations.

Your thoughts?


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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 7:57:17 PM   
Phin


Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		sounds really good in theory, but life is not so kind.

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:05:18 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		I agree. There is a time and place for everything. I use the word fuck, but wouldn't say it in front of my parents or in a public setting where I don't know the people. Some people tell dirty jokes in company, without first privately questioning themselves about whether it appropriate. Polite people fart, but we don't let a rip snorter go in public.

Anyone who thinks that they can act like a pig in ANY company is not a rebel, just a pig.

It really all just comes down to respect, which is a self imposed rule.



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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:29:56 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		We can't all get along, right?  When values and principles vary, so will what's acceptable.  I'm sure the range isn't only different, but much wider when you take your average kinkster versus, say, ultra-conversative Quaker guy.  Still, as you've been apt in pointing out before, having a range which includes kinky area doesn't necessarily mean that such a range is unusually expansive.

It's a long and complex subject.  Any particular direction you wanted to go with it?

As a side note, I'm of the elitest approach.  Polite people are acceptable and allowed near; everyone else can live as they will, but they're not human in the same respect.  I'm one who likes gated communities, both literally and metaphorically.  Not that I necessarily think others are out to hurt me, but I just enjoy the freedom of not having to care.

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:31:37 PM   
Bound2One


Posts: 614
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Being kinky or sadistic has no bearing on how people should act or react in nuetral social situations.


I fully agree.  The member who took issue with being called 'polite society' may perhaps enjoy thinking he is outside of the norm, and thinking he is part of a 'polite society' doesn't fit with how he feels about his kinkiness.  Some people go out of their way to be different - conformity at no cost, thinking it makes them a rebel.  But in a neutral societal situation, simple respect towards one another is a basic tenent.

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:31:45 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

I agree. There is a time and place for everything. I use the word fuck, but wouldn't say it in front of my parents or in a public setting where I don't know the people. Some people tell dirty jokes in company, without first privately questioning themselves about whether it appropriate. Polite people fart, but we don't let a rip snorter go in public.

Anyone who thinks that they can act like a pig in ANY company is not a rebel, just a pig.

It really all just comes down to respect, which is a self imposed rule.




I loved this post and everything you wrote LA.

It is unfortunate that human nature and actions that are not self examined often drifts toward judgment of others to boost a person’s self esteem. Often a byproduct of this is people point at others who are different from them and judge them not as good as themselves.

In terms of the people who mix in this life I think it is that combination of not losing the high school cool factor/fitting in to our social clique and what I wrote above. I do not do that but associate doing kinky things within our social group as cool so my reason for not doing the one I am judging must be to show others not doing them is some combination cooler, morally surperior or healthier.


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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:34:20 PM   
phedre81


Posts: 56
Joined: 10/29/2007
Status: offline 		I would certainly agree that the fact that I choose to engage in BDSM activities does not mean I am exempt from common courtesy.

My experience in the scene where I live has been that the "BDSM'ers" tend to be MORE polite and courteous than many others--I'd rather hang out in the local dungeon for an evening than at a bar--I'm far less likely to be pawed by someone I don't want touching me!

On the other hand, I suppose, in spite of the fact that we are in a community that encourages respect for one another, people can still be asshats.

Not sure if that even addresses what you were getting at, but I certainly understand the frustration of group politics!


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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:42:47 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Your thoughts?



I usually expect people to behave politely towards me until I have consented for them to otherwise. Being kinky or calling yourself dominant/master/mistress or submissive/slave/pet doesn't give you a license to be rude. I mean... I do kitten play but I'm still not going to pee all over the important papers at a play party.

And yes, my felis domesticusi have done that to me.

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:46:02 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		L.A.....One of the 1st lessons I learned was that WAY too many people use the "lifestyle" as an excuse to act badly. Its an awful shame...but its very true.

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:52:44 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings LA,

One of the reasons I hold you in such high regard is your ability to cut through the unnecessary dramatics which tend to hamper some.  You have shown yourself to me and to others what polite behavior looks like in our distinct social scene.  Don't let those who feel the need to spurn such get you down.

Wishing there were more like you and just happy you landed in Texas...

hugs ~ fairer




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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 8:54:29 PM   
LaMistressa


Posts: 460
Joined: 12/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Being kinky or sadistic has no bearing on how people should act or react in nuetral social situations.

Your thoughts?



I think you hit it on the head with a hammer. Spot on.

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 9:12:49 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Singular reply, you guys rock!

Phin: sounds really good in theory, but life is not so kind.

Which part sounds good in theory?

MissMagnolia:  Anyone who thinks that they can act like a pig in ANY company is not a rebel, just a pig.

Great turn of phrase.

CuriousLord: It's a long and complex subject.  Any particular direction you wanted to go with it?

Seeing if people honestly think that their kink proclivities changes the notions of being polite in social situations.

Bound2One:  Some people go out of their way to be different - conformity at no cost, thinking it makes them a rebel.  But in a neutral societal situation, simple respect towards one another is a basic tenent.

I'm not sure if he wants to feel extra special, or if he just wants to be a dick and get away with it.  The local scene here really does celebrate and reward the hetero asshole male dom attitude.

toservez:  I do not do that but associate doing kinky things within our social group as cool so my reason for not doing the one I am judging must be to show others not doing them is some combination cooler, morally surperior or healthier.

Well said.  I am puzzled by how someone agreeing to have needles poked into their skin can so easily be translated into "I don't need to be polite at all"

phedre81:  but I certainly understand the frustration of group politics!

It's not so bad, it's certainly not my first time out of the gate with it.  So far it's pretty typical stuff.

AquaticSub:  I usually expect people to behave politely towards me until I have consented for them to otherwise.

Again, I am always so surprised people are willing to throw away informed consent when it suits their purpose.

breatheasone:  L.A.....One of the 1st lessons I learned was that WAY too many people use the "lifestyle" as an excuse to act badly. Its an awful shame...but its very true.

True, all sub cultures become a place for people who don't fit into mainstream culture to try and hide and escape.

fairerthanshe: Don't let those who feel the need to spurn such get you down.

It gets me down more than people like that are so rewarded and encouraged. 

Wishing there were more like you and just happy you landed in Texas...

Ditto!

LaMistressa:  I think you hit it on the head with a hammer. Spot on.

Thanks, though it's ok to disagree and explain why also! :)

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 9:19:40 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: phedre81

My experience in the scene where I live has been that the "BDSM'ers" tend to be MORE polite and courteous than many others


That's been my experience as well. i've encountered a lot of people in protocol-driven D/s dynamics that are much more attuned to traditional manners than the average schmoe.

i would agree that kink should not have anything to do with being polite or civil in a neutral situation, and the remark comes off as being childishly flip. However, i will mention that if the original comment was in the context of "polite society" being politically correct and/or avoiding blunt or explicit discussion, then i might be more inclined to agree with them. No idea what the context was.

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 9:19:44 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Background: One of the groups in our local scene is going through one of those routine petty years old vengeances that come to a boil before being swept under the rug and pretended it doesn't exist for a few more years things.

Someone in the discussion said this:
Can we as a group of people who encourage and enjoy activities like peeing on each other and stabbing each other with needles really be referred to as "polite society?" God I hope not. If so, I signed up for the wrong cruise.

I replied with this:
As for me, I'm the first to admit that kinky people in general are way too uptight about things and behaviors and need to go with the flow a lot more.

However, and I know we've been down this discussion before, I don't see any reason why my personal relationship orientation, and my kinky activities should have anything to do with being a polite mature person who can handle herself well in social situations.

I have no problem with someone being an asshole, a cruel person who really gets off on hurting others and beating the crap out of them and making them cry and freezing them outside for an hour just to beat them some more and make them drive home immediately after- that WAS my ex owner and he's a great guy.

I have a problem with someone doing those things in general company without a mutual understanding in place or using it as an excuse to act improperly in other social contexts. Being kinky or sadistic has no bearing on how people should act or react in nuetral social situations.

Your thoughts?



Asshole is far more effective when done sparingly. The contrast is everything!

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 9:29:50 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It gets me down more than people like that are so rewarded and encouraged.

I couldn't agree MORE....when that kind of behavior is rewarded with "attention" it just keeps feeding the problem. Whether its online, or in real life.


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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candy posts in pink font

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 9:48:27 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I have no problem with someone being an asshole, a cruel person who really gets off on hurting others and beating the crap out of them and making them cry and freezing them outside for an hour just to beat them some more and make them drive home immediately after- that WAS my ex owner and he's a great guy.

I have a problem with someone doing those things in general company without a mutual understanding in place or using it as an excuse to act improperly in other social contexts. Being kinky or sadistic has no bearing on how people should act or react in nuetral social situations.

Your thoughts?




Precisely. Social context is extremely important to observe. I have always admired those who have an air of class and refinement about them, never feeling the need to broadcast to the world what penchants for cruelty or deviation they secretly possess. It is infinitely more fascinating to see this dimension in a person as opposed to the angst-ridden hot head of an alternative lifestyle.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Polite Society? - 2/6/2008 11:34:57 PM   
Faeorie


Posts: 74
Joined: 1/30/2008
Status: offline 		Ah, the world is full of people who are impolite, rude and act out for attention. You find these peple in every walks of life who use some aspect of their experiences as justification to act like an ass. There aren't many people left who see politeness as a virtue, and I'm supposed to be in a place where the phrase "southern hospitality" should apply.

Then again, you find serial killers, rapists and psychos who come across as very polite, well-adjusted individuals... strange world aint it?

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/7/2008 12:21:58 AM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		In both my personal life and professional life, I am known as a rebel. But, that is tempered with correct manners. I lose respect for a person who thinks they need to shock or threaten people in order to be noticed. In spite of my personal peccadilloes or radical ideas, I feel I don't deserve to be taken seriously if I can't behave in a polite and respectful manner. Showing up late for a meeting, addressing people with terms that are inappropriate for that social setting, behaving boorish or presenting yourself as an ignorant red neck are behaviors that cause me to write off a person as not worthy of my attention.

We live in a society where we are forced to interact with each other. With all the differences between us, it is our manners and respect that keep the social fabric from tearing and anarchy from ruling.

< Message edited by MidMichCowboy -- 2/7/2008 12:22:43 AM >

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/7/2008 12:55:57 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Can we as a group of people who encourage and enjoy activities like peeing on each other and stabbing each other with needles really be referred to as "polite society?" God I hope not. If so, I signed up for the wrong cruise.

[snip]

...I don't see any reason why my personal relationship orientation, and my kinky activities should have anything to do with being a polite mature person who can handle herself well in social situations.

I have no problem with someone being an asshole, a cruel person who really gets off on hurting others and beating the crap out of them and making them cry and freezing them outside for an hour just to beat them some more and make them drive home immediately after- that WAS my ex owner and he's a great guy.

I have a problem with someone doing those things in general company without a mutual understanding in place or using it as an excuse to act improperly in other social contexts. Being kinky or sadistic has no bearing on how people should act or react in nuetral social situations.

Your thoughts?



LA, this isn't to hijack at all. To me, it's kind of the same thing. Immediately before reading your post, I read this in an e-mail I received in a group I am part of:

 "I had to take a two day orientation class just to be able to volunteer at the hospital, so just to show you, that is how careful they are with who they allow in the hospital to volunteer.  They also ran a criminal check to make sure I wasn’t some pervert!  Imagine me doing this now, and them asking you all for references!"
 
Now, I know the person who wrote this was being humorous, and perhaps he was just talking about how things would appear to people on the outside if they ever discovered this about him, but it just made me more than a bit uncomfortable. Why wouldn't I or many of the other people in that group be able to provide references for that person? We have different ideas about what should be personal things. It doesn't make us any less competent or responsible citizens. It doesn't mean we're not to be trusted, and it certainly doesn't mean that by virtue of our proclivities that we're necessarily going to fail a background check.
 
And when I read your post, I thought exactly the same thing.. yes, there are probably impolite people everywhere, but that doesn't mean that by virtue of our proclivities, we're somehow less polite than the general population out there. It doesn't mean that our proclivities give us permission to be impolite as a general rule. And it certainly doesn't mean that our proclivities mean that we'd be a danger or give us persmission to be a danger to the rest of the world out there.
 
I guess this is one of the things that has always bothered me about the perceptions folks in this lifestyle SEEM to have about themselves and the lifestyle they live. From what I've been able to see, and I've been around for about 10 years now, IN GENERAL, at least with the people I seem to associate with,  (plus all the other disclaimers to generalizing you can come up with), people seem to strive to be more polite than I was used to before. Sure, there are always individuals out there who seem to have never been taught their manners, just as there are surely people floating around in this lifestyle that I wouldn't be able to give a positive reference for, but to simply say that we're all impolite, or lacking in morals simply because we choose to live our lives this way? I just don't see the connection.

I know I live as if I have kind of a pollyanna-ish view of the world, but I kinda wish people would stop perpetuating this idea, even in fun, that by virtue of this lifestyle, we're somehow more of what society would consider us less for (more impolite, more amoral, more untrustworthy, etc).

juliet


< Message edited by julietsierra -- 2/7/2008 1:00:35 AM >

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RE: Polite Society? - 2/7/2008 1:14:20 AM   
greyangelus


Posts: 192
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline 		For some odd reason, I'm reminded of family reunions whenever I go to a large community meeting. There's the elders sitting around table, bitching about how when they used to do it. There's the half dozen or so active expereienced people trying to make sure the whole thing doesn't come to a grinding halt. There's a small percentage of youngsters running around like it's the last time they'll ever get to come and determinined to enjoy every moment. Scattered around the periphery is all the small little groups that have know each for a good long while.

My extended families has it's spats, disputes, admonitions,  'black-sheep', poor souls who never quite succeeded.  Theres some of them I can't stand, and others I love to be around.

And I'll be damned if miss the next chance I get to see them all.

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