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Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 9:16:55 PM   
patwi


Posts: 296
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline 		Just a casual question I had thought of. Is this a good idea? Perhaps after a night out and a few rounds of drinks? If it's a bad thing, why?

Bear in mind, I am a noob at this, so it's really just an honest question I had, thinking that the scenario may pop up for me sometime.
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 9:20:41 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

Just a casual question I had thought of. Is this a good idea? Perhaps after a night out and a few rounds of drinks? If it's a bad thing, why?

Terrible idea. If it is someone you dont know well, the concept of consent becomes sketchy when you have been drinking.
If you are a submissive, you will have a lowered reaction time, as well as impaired pain receptors and your limits will be off. You can do damage and never even realize it.
If you are Dom, theres no way if you are even buzzed you can trust your own judgement as to how hard you are hitting or where you are aiming.

Playing under the influence for an experienced person on either side is a bad idea. For a newbie, its even worse.

IMHO
DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to patwi)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 9:27:27 PM   
Statepalace


Posts: 185
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline 		If the dominant partner is functioning at less than full capacity, their judgment impaired, and you have lots of nasty things that can happen on accident. Accidents are bad.

If the submissive partner is functioning at less than full capacity, their judgment impaired, and they can't give feedback correctly. Again with the possibility for lots of nasty accidents.

Lots of people have sex drunk, high or under the influence of drugs. You might think that regular vanilla sex is probably not that risky. What about STD's and pregnancy? So many people forget the condom because they're intoxicated.

Adding toys and such is likely NOT a good idea. Just think of all the things that could go wrong. Think "Jackass", the movie, only with a BDSM theme.

All that said, ordering someone to crawl to you and orally please you after you've both had a few drinks doesn't sound that terribly risky.  

< Message edited by Statepalace -- 2/3/2008 9:28:07 PM >

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And if I cease to desire and remain still,
the empire will be at peace of its own accord

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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 9:29:30 PM   
LunaticDesign


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		it is a horrible idea to combine drinking or drugs with BDSM, because when you're under the influence of anything your judgement in impaired and your pain receptors are dulled. I don't know about you but I want to feel the lash when I'm on the bottom and I want to be able to control where the lash goes when I'm on top.

(in reply to Statepalace)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 9:31:26 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi
Just a casual question I had thought of. Is this a good idea? Perhaps after a night out and a few rounds of drinks? If it's a bad thing, why?

Bear in mind, I am a noob at this, so it's really just an honest question I had, thinking that the scenario may pop up for me sometime.

In the scene in general it's highly taboo to drink alcohol or do illegal drugs and then play.

But a heck of a lot of people do it quite regularly without problems.

Just like you assess your play partners state of mind and understanding and physical abilities before you play sober, you do the same when you aren't.  I have absolutely no problem with my partner having a few beers and then us getting into a nice bondage and flogging scene.

Myself I wouldn't trust after one beer because I never drink alcohol and it would effect me too much.

Unlike a lot of people in the scene, I don't back away from "informed consenting adults" when it suits my own biases.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1202728/mpage_4/key_alcohol/tm.htm#1204143
Altered states

http://www.collarchat.com/m_591708/mpage_2/key_alcohol/tm.htm#592098
No alcohol, but what about drugs?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_357268/mpage_1/key_drugs/tm.htm#357279
alcohol/drug use in the scene

http://www.collarchat.com/m_397932/mpage_1/key_alcohol/tm.htm#397986
under the influence

http://www.collarchat.com/m_233286/mpage_3/key_alcohol%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#233955
Alcohol and BDSM

http://www.collarchat.com/m_233276/mpage_1/key_alcohol/tm.htm#233305
alcohol consumption and bdsm


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to patwi)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 9:38:56 PM   
patwi


Posts: 296
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your answers. Myself, I haven't even had a chance to "play" with my dom (boy that still sounds odd considereing I only recently admitted even being a sub..) since we're sepreated by distance.

I had thought, when we meet in a few months that it would be wisest to skip wine with dinner and experience things clear headed.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 9:57:58 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

Just a casual question I had thought of. Is this a good idea? Perhaps after a night out and a few rounds of drinks? If it's a bad thing, why?

Bear in mind, I am a noob at this, so it's really just an honest question I had, thinking that the scenario may pop up for me sometime.


Depends on the situation. If you are new to playing, I wouldn't suggest it. In fact, I would advise against it. The reasoning being because you don't always feel pain the same way you would when sober. Ever woken up after a night of drinking with scratches/minor cuts and have no clue how they got there but you can't remember getting them because you don't remember having ever been in pain? Also, impairment of judgement is a side effect of intoxication - you may think needle play is a great idea when it was previously a hard limit.

Now that said... I do play intoxicated. Certainly Valyraen and I do and I've done it at various private parties that allowed drinking where I felt comfortable. I have no regrets nor much in the way of bad experiences.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to patwi)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 9:58:29 PM   
tactileartist


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

Thank you all for your answers. Myself, I haven't even had a chance to "play" with my dom (boy that still sounds odd considereing I only recently admitted even being a sub..) since we're sepreated by distance.

I had thought, when we meet in a few months that it would be wisest to skip wine with dinner and experience things clear headed.


Absolutely.

My dom and I will - occasionally - scene while intoxicated (which is not to say trashed) and only with each other.  I trust him to know that a couple of shots of rum are enough to drop inhibitions, and ALSO we know that this is NOT the time to try wild new techniques or toys.  We know each other well enough to take what we know, and accept, is a risk.  Frankly, we've been shacking up for a year and a half, we're getting married in a few months, and we've had hours and hours and hours of talking about scening, limits, safewording, psychology, our own personal demons and problems, and without all that to back it up, it's not something I would find acceptable.

We also know what each other's alcohol tolerance is. We know where the line is between "tipsy but can still play" and "drunk enough it's probably more risk than we want to take" and "you want to WHAT? HAHAHAHA!"  We also have never had a problem with scening at the levels of intoxication we find appropriate (when we do).

ALL of these things make a difference.
So, to break down the reasons why I feel comfortable scening while intoxicated:
1) There's a limit as to how intoxicated.
2) It's only with one, explicit person.
3) Endless hours of talking things out.
4) We understand it's a risk, and we don't take that lightly.
5) The only new territory explored while intoxicated is verbal.  Everything else that I submit to are activities I know he can safely perform in his sleep.
6) Did I mention we know and accept that it qualifies, at best, as edge play? RISKY. Not terribly smart.  Our choice.

I think you are making an extremely intelligent choice skipping the wine with dinner - or I would suggest that you not scene until at least four hours after a single glass of wine with dinner, depending on your alcohol tolerance.   For that matter, if your Dom didn't insist on similar restrictions, as a sub I might have second thoughts about that Dom.

Hmm... I just realized I made the assumption that you have not yet met your Dom in person, and that you didn'quite t say that.  Still, I think everything still applies since you are apparently new to "play", whether you have met or not.

Also, as a disclaimer, I think I will add that I absolutely would never endorse that another couple play while intoxicated. I won't necessarily shun someone who does, provided that they can demonstrate they have given this at least as much thought and energy as we have, and that they clearly understand that it's not "no big deal" - that there is a significant risk involved because judgment IS impaired.f

(in reply to patwi)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:00:43 PM   
Valyraen


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		After having to console and soothe a very hysterical kitten at 4 in the morning following a very long day, with only more of the same to look forward to the following day... I don't play with anything remotely damaging after more than a single beer - and that only after an hour has passed. Others might, and I don't have an issue with that, but I'm not going to be the one on the other side of the implement.

_____________________________

CM's Resident Fuzzy Kitteh

There is no creature more loving than a hungry cat.

Valyraen in ValyraenandAqua

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:02:55 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I avoid people that use drugs other than necessary prescriptions period.  I never play with anyone that's consumed more than one drink nor do I do it myself unless it's someone I know very well and have been dating for quite awhile.  Even then, being sloshed and doing intense play is not a good decision for me personally although obviously I wouldn't forgo all sex because of it.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:06:09 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Valyraen

After having to console and soothe a very hysterical kitten at 4 in the morning following a very long day, with only more of the same to look forward to the following day... I don't play with anything remotely damaging after more than a single beer - and that only after an hour has passed. Others might, and I don't have an issue with that, but I'm not going to be the one on the other side of the implement.


Darn you... you have to come behind me and make me correct myself...

We play when I'm intoxicated.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Valyraen)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:08:29 PM   
cravespleasure


Posts: 53
Joined: 8/12/2006
Status: offline 		Hmmm.

I understand how alcohol lowers inhibitions. Yet, submission has a drugging affect on me to some degree. When done right, one thing leads to another and I have that complete rush and I do lose sight of my limits. (then again, I'm not entirely sure I have a hard set of limits with regards to particular experiences.. no, you can't hit me that hard, it's beyond my limits :) How does alcohol change that effect?

(in reply to Valyraen)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:09:29 PM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline 		Yes.  Absolutely it would be a good idea to skip the wine with dinner, and play clear-headed.

I happen to enjoy the taste of alcohol, and wine with dinner is nice.  But honestly?  I wouldn't ever want to make a decision while still feeling even the slightest bit of the influence of alcohol.  And on a first meet?  Um - no.  You're someone that is very careful in all aspects of her life, and you like to make informed choices, based on solid information and a lot of thought.  Making those same choices with impaired judgment seems pretty much against everything you stand for.

As for me - I prefer not to do any type of impact play, or anything involving sado-masochism, while under the influence.  Ordering someone to wash the dishes after I've had some wine?  Not a lot of potential for problems, even if it's part of our natural dynamic.  But for me to be able to accept responsibility for someone's well being (which, no matter how other people view shared responsibility, is part of what I think of as being a Domme - at least for me) - well, in my mind that requires me to be free of external (and particularly chemical) influences.

For playing - as a sub specifically?  Not a good idea your first time, and only a good idea in some situations.  For instance - the first time you do assplay?  Not a bad a idea.  The first time you enjoy a flogging?  Not a good idea - you want to know what your natural reactions are - and you want your partner to know what your natural reactions look like - without help from Senor Cuervo.

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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:18:22 PM   
AxilX


Posts: 17
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		One thing i found somewhat amusing is everyone assumed you were talking about play involving some sort of corporal punishment.  There are plenty of BDSM related activities that you can enjoy without inflicting/recieving pain.  Now that said, if you are talking about corporal play, a couple drinks are unlikely to do much harm.  Now if you have a very low alcohol tolerance, or have a hard time controlling your drinking, i'd certainly avoid it, but again under most circumstances a glass or two of wine will do no harm.

That said i would personally choose to skip the wine the first time you experience things, if only to make the experience more vivid, and exciting, and enjoyable, as it's true alcohol will dull your senses, and thus the overall experience.

(in reply to Dari)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:23:07 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Axil,
I did not necessarily assume corporal punishment.  If bondage is too tight, it can be as much of a problem (and as difficult to register) while intoxicated as some sort of punishment could be. Your pain receptors as a sub could indicate problems in positions (never hurt yourself turning or bending wrong before?), bondage and a number of other things.  As a Dom, your judgement could effect how tight you tie something, or how long you hold it as well. Judgement is key, and intoxicated (which judging by the title of this thread, the OP means more than a drink or two to loosten up) impairs judgement.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to AxilX)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:26:58 PM   
patwi


Posts: 296
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline 		Well really, I meant even a drink or two. I'm well past my days of getting "trashed" (thank god) but wasn't sure if even a little bit of tipsyness would change things.

As for what sort of play? Really I guess the question would cover all realms.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:30:46 PM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		I don't drink, my partners usually don't. If either of us did I would not 'play'. Kinky sex sure, but bondage, pain play or anything that requires judgement to ensure safety, no way.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:41:27 PM   
JulieorSarah


Posts: 552
Joined: 8/25/2007
Status: offline 		In the early stages, it's always substance free, communication can be difficult enough in the early stages.  However as time passes and some activities, that aren't really activities ... i really enjoy being restrained, looked at while he sips a glass of wine and we chat - there are fast release facilities for this, so if he falls asleep i can release myself.  It's the (level of) risk factor.  substances/stimulants - regardless of their source (many prescriptions have side effects too) should be avoided until you understand the impact on each other.  I like to sip champagne in a low-level familiar play.  All new ventures are substance free, with well rested, well-nourished bodies.

but
then there are those moments of impulse, passion ... if the play pattern is set in the early stages ... the safe words will fly from any or all parties.

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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:46:49 PM   
AxilX


Posts: 17
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Axil,
I did not necessarily assume corporal punishment.  If bondage is too tight, it can be as much of a problem (and as difficult to register) while intoxicated as some sort of punishment could be. Your pain receptors as a sub could indicate problems in positions (never hurt yourself turning or bending wrong before?), bondage and a number of other things.  As a Dom, your judgement could effect how tight you tie something, or how long you hold it as well. Judgement is key, and intoxicated (which judging by the title of this thread, the OP means more than a drink or two to loosten up) impairs judgement.

DV



By the strictest definition i'm not sure bondage wouldn't fall under the category of corporal punishement, but i understand your point.  my comment wasn't directed at you specficially either, many of the people in the thread mentioned "striking" and "hitting" and nothing else.  You didn't mention bondage in your initial reply either. 

You are correct however in regards to intoxication, if you use the literal definition.  After reading the post though, i saw she was referring to "wine with dinner" and responded that if she limited herself to a glass or two, she ought to be ok.  I fully agree, if you are actually intoxicated, then any play where safety is a concern ought to be avoided entirely.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: Playing while intoxicated - 2/3/2008 10:56:52 PM   
OedipusRexIt


Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		If we're only listing our opinion, mine is that intoxication doesn't mix with many things in any kind of positive way.

... now, someone might want to try and define "intoxication".

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"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die..."

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