RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant?

RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (Full Version)

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theUnsung -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 12:25:04 PM)
The first thought that came to mind following reading your inquiry was the ole saying "A crow sits beside a crow". I think we are all branded by the company we keep regardless of which circle we are reflecting on, hence we reflect the actions of others close in our lives because people make generalizations in association. So I would have to say that in thought that as a person, as a submissive my behaviour and actions would be a direct association to the people that encircle my life, or the dominant that is apart of my life.

TracyTaken -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 2:29:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cherrypez I have yet to see a 'how a perfect submissive should act' manual out there. How is this?: How a Perfect Submissive Should Act A perfect submissive should be should be perfectly submissive at all times. So, say Master/Mistress is driving down the road; you are hand-cuffed in the passenger seat. You-Know-Who (YKW) makes a wrong turn. Don’t say anything. Not even if YKW is going the wrong way down a one-way. Don’t point out the mistake; it would be a most unsubmissive-like thing to do. Trust that YKW, in his/her infinite wisdom, will figure it out soon enough. A perfect submissive should maintain a perfect household. It should sparkle and smell good, be organized and peaceful and a pleasure to all the Dom’s senses at all times. Meals should be tasty, healthy, and bubbling if a hot dish, very chilled if served cold. A plate should be attractively arranged and complete with garnish. And be sure to have a substitute meal at the ready should YKW not approve of the offering. In warm weather, the yard should be a park-like setting, free of weeds and abundant with flowers, with the lush green lawn perfectly mowed in a fashionable pattern and neatly trimmed. In cold months, it should always be well swept and clean, with snow always shoveled, and it wouldn’t hurt to put out a few fake flowers to brighten it up. If bookkeeping is part of your duties, be sure that your accounting is flawless and that you always have a current spread sheet printed out and within easy reach. Show absolute respect and unconditional trust at all times, no matter what the circumstance. Adore and worship without fail and fearlessly protect YKW from harm. Obey without hesitation, whether or not it is in your best interests to do so. So, if YKW orders you to shoot and kill him/her, you know what to do. If you are one of those subs who MUST work, be sure to get a job where you make enough money to pay someone else to do what you surely will not have time to do due to your screwed up priorities. After all, your main priority should be serving YKW. You don’t make enough money? Then get a second job. Work enough jobs, and you can pay for a full time submissive to service YKW. No complaints; you exist to serve YKW as best you can. Be ready for any kind of sex or any kind of play at any time with anyone YKW desires – and enjoy it! Maintain an unfailingly sunny disposition. Perfect submissives don’t get tired. No pouting, no crankiness – not ever. Understand this: You don’t have moods, you cheerfully take instruction. Be so selfless that YKW has no idea what you actually want out of life. Ideally, you should have no preferences, ambitions, opinions, feelings or thoughts of your own – you want to be a formless lump of clay to be molded by YKW. Remember, you are a reflection of YKW. That does not mean that you should act just like YKW, and for goodness sake don’t try to look like YKW (unless YKW has so ordered – then you need think seriously about plastic surgery, perhaps even sex reassignment surgery). It means that no matter what the circumstances, you must make YKW look good. Remember: You may be the only thing capable of making YKW look good to others. If, in addition, caring for children is part of your duties, endeavor to be a cross between Mary Poppins and Ninja Nanny. If that fails, or you prove to be a failure at accomplishing everything listed above, see this website: http://www.realultimatepower.net/ninja/seppuku.htm Never forget that being the perfect submissive is not for the faint of heart; it is for the faint of mind.

catize -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 6:47:25 PM)
quote: Do you see a difference between having "an agreement" and having a relationship? If there is no agreement there is no relationship. How would I know if I want a relationship unless I know what I am agreeing to submit to?

WillowRain -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 7:17:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists A few threads and posts have caused me to reflect on the preceptions we have of the D/s relationships we observe and/or interact with. I reflected on what grains of behavior these relationships demonstrate that cause me to make a positive or negative judgement and wonder briefly what do others look for. I have often heard the concept that a submissive is a reflection of their Dominant. Which I consider as only fragement of a truth and can even be rather miss leading. It is my thought that everyone in the relationship is a reflection of the relationship and not necessarily a reflection of others in the relationship. I see individuals as both a reflection of themselves and their relationship. I don't consider it particularly accurate to judge one person by the actions of another and therefore I don't put much weight into the idea that a "submissive" is a reflection of the "Dominant". For me it is more accurate to state that the Dominant/submissive is a reflection of themself and their relationship. Is the submissive a reflection of the Dominant for you? what about the Dominant a reflection of the submissive? does it work both ways... or does it work that all? I admit, it does affect my opinion. The same things that affect how I percieve a vanilla couple, affect how I see a bdsm couple. How do they communicate? Is the connection visible? Do I personally feel comfortable around them, is their wierd tension I can feel? Specifically as to how is the submissive a reflection of thier relationship, or her dominant: Is she happy? Does she relax around him? Does she show him respect? verbally? physically? energetically? Is he warm with her, to her? Do they laugh? Is their palpable love? If a Dominant/Domme has someone in service who openly is happy, who loves and respects them, it does affect my judgement of them postively. As to does how a dominant treats a submissive affect how I think of the submissive, some, but it's not as vivid or telling for me. I'm not sure why exactly. If I have known the dominant a long time, and known others in service to them and they are consistant, then variances from that consistancy with someone new might affect my judgement. It's not fair I guess, but there you go.

catize -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 7:32:22 PM)
~Fast reply~ For those who do believe that a submissive does by word or deed reflect on their dominant, I would ask you this: Who decides what is right other than the people directly involved in that relationship? Whether vanilla or D/s, there are many couples I know that when I see them interact I think to myself, “I would never put up with that!” And isn’t that what it boils down to, that just because it wouldn’t work for me means diddly-squat to them? The problem arises, from my perspective, when outsiders negatively judge what apparently works well for the folks who are actually in a specific dynamic. Rather than look askance at them I would prefer to marvel at the varieties of couplings. Not to mention that I’m glad they found each other and I’m not involved!

meticulousgirl -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 7:39:38 PM)
i believe each reflects the other, especially over time. a submissive / slave can not become her Dominants other half so to speak over night, it takes time, knowledge of preference, trust and compatibility in order for it to work. In five years i have become much like my Owner but, i will never become all to me that's not a possibility as we are each born unique and with different personality traits, some that no one will ever be able to curb......even if we wanted them too. ~meticulous~

MzMia -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 7:48:41 PM)
Tracy, I am a bit confused. No one here has stated that a submissive should be perfect. No one on this earth is perfect, as far as I know. BUT, a submissive is normally a reflection of his/her Dominant. Being a reflection is just that, a reflection. No one said, anyone needed to be perfect OR expects perfection. The older I get, I can tell MORE about a person {vanilla OR lifestyle, by their choice of a MATE.[:D]

TracyTaken -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 7:55:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia Tracy, I am a bit confused. No one here has stated that a submissive should be perfect. I fashioned a joke from something CherryPez said, which I quoted, about a manual on how the perfect submissive should act. quote: The older I get, I can tell MORE about a person {vanilla OR lifestyle, by their choice of a MATE. I wonder what you would have thought about Abraham Lincoln if you were basing that judgment on the erratic behavior of Mary Todd Lincoln.

MzMia -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 8:00:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TracyTaken quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia Tracy, I am a bit confused. No one here has stated that a submissive should be perfect. I fashioned a joke from something CherryPez said, which I quoted, about a manual on how the perfect submissive should act. quote: The older I get, I can tell MORE about a person {vanilla OR lifestyle, by their choice of a MATE. I wonder what you would have thought about Abraham Lincoln if you were basing that judgment on the erratic behavior of Mary Todd Lincoln. Oh, BUT I have studied both Abraham Lincoln AND Mary Todd Lincoln. MzMia loves history. Abraham Lincoln suffered from severe depression FOR YEARS, it is even alleged Abraham was suicidal dear. I think they were very WELL suited for each other.[:D] Mary Todd is a wonderful reflection of Abraham and vice versa. To each their own.

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 8:08:33 PM)
Most tend to look upon the company you keep at first. However, if the company kept is less than desireable in a persons eyes.I still try to keep my eyes wide open, for you never know,often times there is an individual in that circle of undesireability that may be an exception to that rule..But again , however...~wink~..when it comes to D/s relationships..I do tend to think the submissive is a reflection upon the Dominant, a reflection of his personal tastes,preferences,instructions..he is after all, running the show so to speak..Tempting

WillowRain -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/11/2008 9:02:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize ~Fast reply~ For those who do believe that a submissive does by word or deed reflect on their dominant, I would ask you this: Who decides what is right other than the people directly involved in that relationship? Whether vanilla or D/s, there are many couples I know that when I see them interact I think to myself, “I would never put up with that!” And isn’t that what it boils down to, that just because it wouldn’t work for me means diddly-squat to them? The problem arises, from my perspective, when outsiders negatively judge what apparently works well for the folks who are actually in a specific dynamic. Rather than look askance at them I would prefer to marvel at the varieties of couplings. Not to mention that I’m glad they found each other and I’m not involved! It's not really for me about what they do or don't do, but how happy and comfortable they are with and in each other. If they are doing some hard core crass and nasty stuff that involves every bodily function known to man, I may turn my little nose up and look away because I don't want to know THAT much about them and their personal sport, but I don't make any value judement. Their fun doesn't have to be my fun. If people are happy in each other and content, I do notice, and it does mean something to me. :) That happiness can look a million ways and have a ton of faces and styles, but it's hard to miss when two people really get each other, and are doing well together. You can feel it.

Nineveh -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/11/2008 9:07:05 AM)
For me it absolutely works both ways. How I Dom and who I am as a Dom is greatly determined by who I am Domming. And, of course, how she submits is greatly determined by how I am Domming her. I thihnk this holds true even in vanilla relationships though, if one is not partly determined by their relationship then it is not a serious relationship, in my opinion.

Nineveh -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/11/2008 9:10:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Moreso in the case of M/s. to me. As a slave often acts as an extension of the Master, acting strictly as taught, her behavior is rather telling of the Master. So long as the slave is acting as the Master bids her, this may be characterized as the Master acting through her. This doesn't extend to D/s so much as Dom's moreso guide as opposed to control, and sub's are ultimately responsible for themselves. This does not work the other way around as a slave does not control her Master. I disagree. In order to inspire the level of submission that is required of a slave a Master must project what that slave sees as strength. What each slave sees as strength is different, and I sincerely doubt that any slave is randomloy going to find the master who displays strength perfectly for her. It takes work on the masters part to determine what the slave sees as strength, and he adapts himself to portray that.

daddysprop247 -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/11/2008 9:24:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia I think we all are a reflection of those that nuture and guide us. IF one of a Dominant's jobs is to nuture and guide his submissives, then their behavior is a reflection of their Dominant. [;)] i agree with this. not all D/s relationships are structured this way, with the Dominant taking on the role of teacher, guide and nurturer, but of those that are, then yes the submissive/slave is a reflection of their Dominant. quite a few times remembering that i am a reflection of my Master has prevented me from doing or saying something improper.

ownedgirlie -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/11/2008 11:03:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub Most tend to look upon the company you keep at first. However, if the company kept is less than desireable in a persons eyes.I still try to keep my eyes wide open, for you never know,often times there is an individual in that circle of undesireability that may be an exception to that rule..But again , however...~wink~..when it comes to D/s relationships..I do tend to think the submissive is a reflection upon the Dominant, a reflection of his personal tastes,preferences,instructions..he is after all, running the show so to speak..Tempting I agree with this. Very well put. I will add, however, that to have looked at me as a reflection of my Master only one year into my slavery with him would not be seeing a reflection of him as a man and Master, but as him of a Master in the basic beginnings of training his slave. In other words, I would say I am more a reflection of him now than I was when I was still figuring him out, myself out, slavery out, etc. Not that I'll ever have it all figured out, but I'm a hell of a lot farther than I was a few years ago! But I am mentoring a girl of his now, and she is still struggling a bit. When she can turn the very wide corner she will need to turn, then she may be considered a reflection of him. Right now, she is in training with a lot of potential, but I wouldn't say she is reflective of him just yet. She is reflective of a slave who is working very hard to please a man who is very hard to please.

travelgman -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/11/2008 6:01:25 PM)
I have to say that a sub/slave is indeed a reflection of her Dom. To me it can be no other way. If I expect someone to submit to my descions and give me control over them. How can they not be a reflection of me and the choices I make for the both of us.To me it is a matter of acepting the responsilbity of my choices. Does the sub have responsiblity as a person for their choice of allowing me this control. Yes but that still doesnt change the fact that I will be judged by most people more harshly by her actions than she will be by mine. It is human nature. Am I refection of her. Yes -though not to the same degree. I would think.You can not have that kind of a committed relationship and not learn from the shared life experinces. So while you both reflect on each other. By the very dynamics of the choices made. The sub will reflect her dom to a larger degree. In my opinion. " I control my destination" - Supafuzz

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