RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant?

RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (Full Version)

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cherrypez -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 4:55:29 AM)
I don't totally buy the whole reflection thing. People are going to judge no matter what. There is no such thing as perfect. Other's are going to find flaws in another person's relationship. I think the reflection is in the eyes of the beholder. Our own personal views are going to distort the reflection another person gives off. I have yet to see a 'how a perfect submissive should act' manual out there. There are no instuctions. What your own personal definition or 'reflection' is, is going to differ from person to person. We are all individuals, we all have our own thoughts, values, morals and we all define our relationship based on our own personal views. The reflection we cast on other's is reflected by their values, morals and their definition of what is right and wrong. Sometimes, the reflection is good and sometimes it's not. The way I see it is this, as long as the reflection I see looks good to me, and to my Dominant, I don't give a crap what other's think. I am living my life for me. I am not living it for others. If I tried to live up to everyone elses expectations of what life was all about, I'd slowly be driven insane.

Dnomyar -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 4:58:32 AM)
Good post and good answers.

catize -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 6:20:22 AM)
The behavior and actions of a submissive or slave are a reflection of their willingness to abide by their agreement with the dominant or master; nothing less, nothing more.

SimplyMichael -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 6:28:37 AM)
It all depends on what you perceive you see in that reflection. On one level, all we see of others is based on perception. Internally I am VERY judgemental but I rarely say anything. I don't like flouncy bouncy submissives, and I tend to dismiss dominants who own them. Even worse are SAMs. I just tend to keep my distance socially from them. The things that turn my stomach are those who I can see wrap themselves in WIIWD to avoid dealing with their own issues. They come in all relationship types and orientations. They are often the ones most concerned about labels and what others are doing. The people I tend to associate with are the ones who just do their own thing, often quite differently than I, but they seem to be happy and internally consistent in what they do. Some are new, others aren't but they all tend to be at ease with who they are.

DesFIP -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 6:30:35 AM)
I've known too many people who seek their opposites to feel fulfilled to buy into the reflection thing. It's axiomatic that buttoned down types flock to girls who dress revealingly and frequently messy. Would you say meeting such a woman whose clothes are buttoned wrong that therefore her partner is equally messy? Because you would be totally off base.

TracyTaken -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 6:54:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize The behavior and actions of a submissive or slave are a reflection of their willingness to abide by their agreement with the dominant or master; nothing less, nothing more. Do you see a difference between having "an agreement" and having a relationship?

celticlord2112 -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 7:19:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists A few threads and posts have caused me to reflect on the preceptions we have of the D/s relationships we observe and/or interact with. I reflected on what grains of behavior these relationships demonstrate that cause me to make a positive or negative judgement and wonder briefly what do others look for. I have often heard the concept that a submissive is a reflection of their Dominant. Which I consider as only fragement of a truth and can even be rather miss leading. It is my thought that everyone in the relationship is a reflection of the relationship and not necessarily a reflection of others in the relationship. I see individuals as both a reflection of themselves and their relationship. I don't consider it particularly accurate to judge one person by the actions of another and therefore I don't put much weight into the idea that a "submissive" is a reflection of the "Dominant". For me it is more accurate to state that the Dominant/submissive is a reflection of themself and their relationship. Is the submissive a reflection of the Dominant for you? what about the Dominant a reflection of the submissive? does it work both ways... or does it work that all? In every context, people tend to be judged by the company they keep. That is human nature.

beargonewild -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 7:51:23 AM)
I tend to see this as a combination of of everything. The submissive reflects who they are as a person through their mannerisms, attitudes, values, moral convictions. This is quite apparent when they are still single and unowned/unclaimed. Granted when a submissive is in a relationship with a Dom, the Dom is refining and molding the submissive thus the submissive is learning to reflect the values, morals, attitudes etc of their Dom. In this case, to some degree the submissive is a reflection of their owner and all that they have taught us. If you look at the relationship as a separate entity, each side still a reflection of themselves and a reflection of each other. I'd like to believe that this works both ways though in all actuality in many cases this isn't so. I would assume that much has to to with the type of dynamics which are in place between the Dominant and the submissive.

Dnomyar -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 7:59:50 AM)
Celeste thanks for the word axiomatic. Learned something new today.

Dari -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 8:08:29 AM)
I've done a lot of thinking about this lately, after having a few conversations with some friends of mine. A month ago, I'd have said yes, the subs are a reflection of the Dominant, and left it at that. However - I've a bit different understanding now. For me, a submissive is who they are - whether they're a SAM, or a slave, or a sub, or any other definition or label you'd care to use. They are themselves, and responsible for the way they act as a general rule. Even when their actions are a direct result of a command by their Dominant - they chose that Dominant, so on some level the way he/she acts and the rules and commands he/she gives are acceptable. When I look at someone, I evaluate them based on who they are, not necessarily the company they keep. However, that company that they choose is often indicative of whether they're the type of person I want to be around. Who you surround yourself with tells me - at least it should tell me - what your comfort zones are. So someone that surrounds themselves with loud, life-of-the-party people? That's a valid choice, but it's not right for me - so while I may be polite to those people, and may even be friendly with them, at the end of the day, they're not going to be the people I want to come home to and snuggle under a blanket with.

SayaNereida -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 9:10:42 AM)
quote: I have often heard the concept that a submissive is a reflection of their Dominant. Which I consider as only fragement of a truth and can even be rather miss leading. It is my thought that everyone in the relationship is a reflection of the relationship and not necessarily a reflection of others in the relationship. I see individuals as both a reflection of themselves and their relationship. I don't consider it particularly accurate to judge one person by the actions of another and therefore I don't put much weight into the idea that a "submissive" is a reflection of the "Dominant". For me it is more accurate to state that the Dominant/submissive is a reflection of themself and their relationship. Is the submissive a reflection of the Dominant for you? what about the Dominant a reflection of the submissive? does it work both ways... or does it work that all? KoM, While I believe one person's behaviors, actions and words can tell you something about the other person in the relationship, such as; if a submissive is bratty, negative, obnoxious,etc. it could say the dominant is the same or it could be proven s/he is an extremely tolerant person, possibly trying to teach/show the other proper behavior and ettiquett. I believe my behaviors and words do tell people something about the person Ryu is; as well I believe his behaviors and words tell people something about me. Exactly what it tells them may vary depending on whether they see us seperately or together, as well as their own POV. How we behave and speak to (and about each other )is definately a reflection on both of us individually, the other person and our relationship. I personally dislike the terminology of 'reflection' ( in reference to 2 in a relationship) because I see it in terms of a mirror reflection; which implies to me if one did not exist, neither would the other. Ryu is who he is whether he is with me or not; as am I. We would not be with each other IF we found the other's behavior, actions, or words embarrassing or unacceptable. I believe that we choose to surround ourselves (folks in general) with people that compliment and enhance that which we believe ourselves to be or wish to be. I believe everyone we allow in our lives is a piece of the puzzle of who we are; a reflection of us, if you prefer.

IrishMist -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 9:20:42 AM)
I think it works both ways; though I will admit that I also do believe that a submissive SHOULD be a reflection of what his/her owner would like them to be...if that makes any sense.

Stephann -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 9:43:00 AM)
"When the character of a man is in question, look to his friends." I'll echo those who have already said generally, the submissive reflects on her dominant. The higher the degree and importance of the D/s interaction, the greater the degree the submissive's actions reflect on the owner. Stephan

Jeffff -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 10:18:34 AM)
No...lol.. I have Friends that have gone to the wall and beyond for me, but if some of you met them you would be horrified.Without knowing people deeply, it is hard to make that statement. I will go so far as to say a submissive is a reflection the the dom's wishes, but not necessarily of the dom him or herself Jeff

LaTigresse -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 10:59:00 AM)
I am a pretty judgemental person. That being said I do tend to look at people, not only based upon their own personal actions but also the company they choose to keep. Of course my criteria for determination is going to be vastly different than most other's simply because what is important in a person is also vastly different than alot of people's. As for how any of that applies to the forums here I can explain. When I see a person that defines themself as a slave and owned, behaving in a manner that I see as inappropriate or immature, I have to wonder just what sort of person their dominant is, to allow such behaviour. So in that case, not only am I passing judgement on the person exhibiting the bad behaviour and casting a bad light on their owner, but also the Master or Mistress that is supposed to be controlling that slave.

DesFIP -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 11:02:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar Celeste thanks for the word axiomatic. Learned something new today. Welcome. Once an old English major, always an old English major. Although my ums deplore my tendency to use formal language, their grades reflect their upbringing.

TracyTaken -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 11:27:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse As for how any of that applies to the forums here I can explain. When I see a person that defines themself as a slave and owned, behaving in a manner that I see as inappropriate or immature, I have to wonder just what sort of person their dominant is, to allow such behaviour. I don't identify as either, but I have hunch most Doms don't care how his/her submissive behaves online. Mine thinks that all this online stuff is just a bunch of silliness. To a great extent, he is right about that. It would not occur to him to monitor my behavior online (short of telling me to shut it down when it interferes with other things). There are too many other things he'd rather be doing. I doubt the majority of Doms or Subs participate much online. I'm not sure it's a good gauge anyway since people tend to behave differently online than they would in person. quote: So in that case, not only am I passing judgement on the person exhibiting the bad behaviour and casting a bad light on their owner, but also the Master or Mistress that is supposed to be controlling that slave. And who may very well be a work of fiction. [:D]

LaTigresse -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 11:30:58 AM)
True, silly me.

Jeffff -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 11:35:12 AM)
I assumed this question applied to people who were meeting face to face. In no way would any online behavior reflect on me. Who are any of us really? Most of us will never meet most of us....lol. So what happens here.....just doesn't seem applicable to me Jeff

lateralist1 -> RE: submissive reflection of the Dominant? (2/4/2008 12:18:28 PM)
I'm not judgemental at all and I get very angry with people who are. That doesn't mean I don't judge people as 'right' for me or not. However unfortunately you can't chose your family, your work colleagues or your partners family and work colleagues. Or most of the people who enter your space when you are in a public place. The only people you can chose are the people you spend your leisure time with. I spend most of it on my own so that might tell you something about me. You have to really know a couple very very well to know anything about the dynamic of their relationship. Unless of course they are willing to be totally honest and actually tell you infront of the other person so the other person can object if they believe it not to be so. What we observe or are told by one partner behind the other's back can be a facade. How many people do you know who act as if they are the dominant person in the relationship but in effect they aren't? Anyone can pretend anything on these sites. Ok some of you know one another in real time but I suggest not many. And if you do, how well do you really know them? If someone is not prepared to show their submission in vanilla public how submissive are they really? And if someone is not prepared to take their sub/slave out in public how proud of them are they? Lots of people will be with a person in private who they wouldn't introduce to their family and friends. That's why I think the term Mistress is very very funny.

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