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How do You begin - 2/1/2008 11:28:11 AM

Kalista07

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline

Hello,
i have a question that i was hoping some of You more skilled people could answer for me... We had a talk last night in which he explained to me that part of the difficulty he's currently experiencing with the M/s dynamics is that He's always begun them at the beginning of the relationship.... And with me (imagine that) things were different. Because of my history and background he wisely decided we should work on building a relationship first. However, at this point He feels somewhat stuck in figuring out where to go from here... If anyone has any suggestions or experiences that would be awesome and we would grately appreciate it... By the way, for those of You who want to say i'm topping from the bottom i don't believe i am as we talked about this extensivley last night and i'm going to copy and past this link to Him so He can read it and He's free to comment on it as He sees fit.
Thanks,
Kali

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

Post #: 1

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 11:32:04 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Hello,
i have a question that i was hoping some of You more skilled people could answer for me... We had a talk last night in which he explained to me that part of the difficulty he's currently experiencing with the M/s dynamics is that He's always begun them at the beginning of the relationship.... And with me (imagine that) things were different. Because of my history and background he wisely decided we should work on building a relationship first. However, at this point He feels somewhat stuck in figuring out where to go from here... If anyone has any suggestions or experiences that would be awesome and we would grately appreciate it... By the way, for those of You who want to say i'm topping from the bottom i don't believe i am as we talked about this extensivley last night and i'm going to copy and past this link to Him so He can read it and He's free to comment on it as He sees fit.
Thanks,
Kali

Given what you have said here, and what you have eluded to in the past; the best I can offer is to do what you have been doing. Sit down together; you list what it is that you need; he list what it is that he needs; then move on to what each of you want...and go from there.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 2

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 11:32:33 AM

Dnomyar

Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

Building a relationship is a great way to start. He must have had some ideal of how he wanted to progress at the start. So why not start there.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 3

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 11:46:36 AM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

Start with simple things. Address him as Sir or Master. Do some ritualistic behaviors like greeting him in a certain way (kneeling or bowing or whatever). Nothing has to be elaborate.

It's like horseback riding - you learn how to do it, and then when you are away from it for a time, you still know how to do it, but it takes some reaquaintance to be comfortable with it again. Baby steps.

(in reply to Dnomyar)

Post #: 4

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 11:58:02 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

The best path is always what works best for the two people involved.

Despite the overwhelming propaganda living a power exchange relationship is not done by two people who always are natural in their dominant or submissive feelings and can just turn them on when the time comes. The feelings that drive this part of the relationship are fueled by both partners’ interactions.

Like Batshalom mentions you need to start to make him feel dominant towards you. Talk to him and see what would help. Things like calling him a name, discussing having a few rules or rituals and things like that.

Find out what both of you need and can get done to start feeling those feelings of domination and submission.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 5

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 12:06:22 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

Kalista,

He is/was comfortable with the normal mode for him, so let him know that your ready to handle that and thank him for his patience.

CP

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 6

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 12:44:00 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Check out the Ms related books in my signature. Perhaps one or a few will help. The easiest thing to do is to set up three rules, then enforce them...then grow from there.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 7

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 1:27:10 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Hello,
i have a question that i was hoping some of You more skilled people could answer for me... We had a talk last night in which he explained to me that part of the difficulty he's currently experiencing with the M/s dynamics is that He's always begun them at the beginning of the relationship.... And with me (imagine that) things were different. Because of my history and background he wisely decided we should work on building a relationship first. However, at this point He feels somewhat stuck in figuring out where to go from here... If anyone has any suggestions or experiences that would be awesome and we would grately appreciate it... By the way, for those of You who want to say i'm topping from the bottom i don't believe i am as we talked about this extensivley last night and i'm going to copy and past this link to Him so He can read it and He's free to comment on it as He sees fit.
Thanks,

A D/s or M/s dynamic is a matter of feeding off and complementing each other's role "power". I'm "naturally" dominant ONLY with submissive women - there's simply no spark with non-submissive or even just vanilla women = no interest in them.

Sounds like you two aren't generating that mutual spark; that the M/s side of your relationship is sterile and maybe even over-thought rather than naturally complementing. Sorry to point the finger but I'd find it impossible NOT to be dominant with a submissive I was considering forming a personal relationship with. Frankly, I find it bizarre that he'd consciously wanna try to "switch off" what should come naturally in order to form a relationship first - isn't the D/s or M/s dynamic a primary reason for your getting together in the first place?

Either he isn't who he says (dominant) or the two of you have compatability issues.... Submissives tend to subconsciously "top from the bottom" when they sense there's no control or authority coming from the other. So I tend to see it (tftb) more as a barometer of a couple's dynamic rather than something malicious - if you are doing that....

Finally, I don't believe you can "switch off" any natural trait for any extended period. You can have the discipline to control yourself, though. I can no more switch off being dominant around my girl than I can switch off being hetero. Question really is, in forming a personal relationship, why would anyone want to deny who they really are - unless....?

Focus.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 8

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 2:01:08 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

We had a talk last night in which he explained to me that part of the difficulty he's currently experiencing with the M/s dynamics is that He's always begun them at the beginning of the relationship.... And with me (imagine that) things were different. Because of my history and background he wisely decided we should work on building a relationship first. However, at this point He feels somewhat stuck in figuring out where to go from here... If anyone has any suggestions or experiences that would be awesome and we would grately appreciate it...

Every one of my D/s relationships has been different, partly because I was growing as a person and as a dominant but also because the combination of my dominance and their submission creates a unique energy (see, I had to work that in somewhere!) that exists only for that relationship.

That said, a major part of that process was me discovering what I wanted and needed to be happy and then looking for a person with whom that resonated at the right frequency and made her karma vibrate in harmony with mine.

I found the less I tried to force a relationship into a mold and simple let it evolve, the happier I was. The less I worried what a "real" D/s relationship looked like and focused on what MINE was going to be, the happier I have become.

For me, I like to fantasize and play with slaves sleeping on the floor but want my woman curled up next to me in bed. I like to have the right to exercise control in a pretty broad sense but want a partner with whom I don't often feel the need to do so. I like a partner who is monogamous about love but less so about sex. The rest, well I am still watching that evolve.

So, what the hell DO you want, what does he want, what makes you two happy as clams? I order you to do THAT right NOW!

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 9

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 3:06:11 PM

Kalista07

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline

i just wanted to thank You all for all of Your responses...

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 10

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 3:45:47 PM

TysGalilah

Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Hello,
i have a question that i was hoping some of You more skilled people could answer for me... We had a talk last night in which he explained to me that part of the difficulty he's currently experiencing with the M/s dynamics is that He's always begun them at the beginning of the relationship.... And with me (imagine that) things were different. Because of my history and background he wisely decided we should work on building a relationship first. However, at this point He feels somewhat stuck in figuring out where to go from here... If anyone has any suggestions or experiences that would be awesome and we would grately appreciate it... By the way, for those of You who want to say i'm topping from the bottom i don't believe i am as we talked about this extensivley last night and i'm going to copy and past this link to Him so He can read it and He's free to comment on it as He sees fit.
Thanks,
Kali

Hi Kalista
I think forming a relationship first is a terrific idea : )

Sounds like he is just needing a pushing off point to lead into the Ms of the dynamic you two have already decided you two want.
so.....forgive me if this is too simplistic and I don't understand your dilemma but..
give him the pushing off point.

SOMEONE has to be in control right? lol well...its true.
hand him the(your) control... subtle ways at first would be my inclination.
   Ask more question than you give answers.
   Ask for advice.
   Spend an entire conversation listening to him...and when he stops talking..just be with him, interested. If he asks you a direct question, of course answer.
Try the "less is more" idea (on your part) for a little while and see what happens in his response or reaction.
Other subtle ways that I'm sure you can think of that matter between the two of you..and that are personal to him.

   Forcing or manipulating can happen when we don't even know we are pushing. You are probably anxious to begin to feel his control, which probably has the opposite results on how he feels or sees your "enthusiasm"...

Rather than trying to feel or find his control> maybe just roll around in your subserviance ?
Did I say roll around? I meant Roam around in your subserviance.   Dangnabbit Lesbian porn channel..too many mudwrestling TIVO'd shows..

sigh..

what a wonderful journey you have to look forward to : ) much happiness to you both

Cyndi

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 11

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 4:01:51 PM

sweetwenchie

Posts: 1993
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

There has been so much good advice given i feel like a parrot saying talk to him openly (as it sounds like you have already been), maybe start slow, one or two things that are importing to the both of you.

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." - De Beauvoir

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 12

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 4:26:09 PM

MasterWilliam55

Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline

Just a thought. I found this worked with sub friends I have known socially and when decided to get together. We create a scene...sometimes I do it on my own and ask for input..sometimes we do it together. It's a basic ice-breaker. It has a couple of basic components. Some D/s elements, some light play such as mild bondage, spanking, and sex scenes with some mild kinky twist to it. Then one night you act it out. Sounds very dry told like this and it probably is. One idea is to keep the D/s elements going for a bit afterwards. Service elements; like getting his drinks for him, asking permission to do things, and dress in something you imagine he likes.

The next day keep some of those elements alive. Talk to him about protocol. Say you want some of that. Start calling him Sir, ask him where you should stand, or walk.
Ask him what you should put on for him when you both get home from work? What does he want for dinner? Get him involved in subtle D/s activities. Future play will grow from that.

This approach has worked for me, it may work for you. JUst talking about it will not likely do anything for you. You have to act something out and see if it strikes a cord.

If he's still interested in being a Dom, he'll respond to these prompts.
but it starts with a very simple kicked up sexy play period.

(in reply to TysGalilah)

Post #: 13

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 4:33:14 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Yup, yup yup. For Daddy and I he started out asking that the bed be cleaned off so he can get in it, cause it was always filled with clothes an books an papers and the ocasional dish. and while I do not always do so and he does not always enforce so, I do it more than before. And he always praises me for the hardwork I do getting ready for his arrival when I do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Start with simple things.

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 14

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 4:41:04 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

I never ever start as anything but friends.

Roles can happen after I know who someone really is.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 15

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 5:00:29 PM

Kalista07

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

JUst talking about it will not likely do anything for you.

i think that is exactly where the height of my frustration is currently coming from....Because my fear is that we will keep "talking" about this but never taking the action necessary....

Thanks again for all Your responses.... i appreciate them greatly, as i'm sure He will as well.

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 16

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 5:02:29 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

Perhaps you could try little things, like asking his permission to do certain things. Answering with 'yes sir' or 'no sir'. That sort of thing.

Really, both of you just need to work out the 'vision' of what you'd like your relationship to be and what that will entail, then put those things into action....... even if it's one step at a time.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 17

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 5:50:01 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

Hi Kalista, everyone has given great advice already. I would say that there has already been alot of talk between the two of you and it sounds ironically, like the great normal day to day relationship you guys have is comfortable enough, so that the D/s part and the spark, might need ignition.

How about having some time away from the everyday mundane things, like going to a hotel or planning a hot scene and you and he can rekindle what it is you both desire in the D/s realm?

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 18

RE: How do You begin - 2/1/2008 6:19:34 PM

MidMichCowboy

Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

Easy, he grabs you, throws you over his shoulder and takes you into bedroom (or your room of choice). He strips you, ties you up, spanks your ass and ravishes you. With that out of the way, move forward.
(I'm actually serious. It worked for me in the past)

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 19

RE: How do You begin - 2/2/2008 7:36:29 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
I found the less I tried to force a relationship into a mold and simple let it evolve, the happier I was. The less I worried what a "real" D/s relationship looked like and focused on what MINE was going to be, the happier I have become.

Kalista... there have been alot of good thoughts shared in this thread.. but this one to me was very fundamental.

"Letting it evolve" is simple... but for many it's very hard to do. We often try to force that square peg into the round hole on so many different occassions. I think one of the problems of letting it evolve is what Focus eluded to. What if their is no spark... what if what is going to actually evolve is that the people in the relationship will go their seperate ways instead of coming closer together.

I notice that you shared a worry of doing just talk and not translating that into action. What do you think could or is stopping your relationship from taking steps into action. Besides trying to force things to evolve.. we actually do things that inhibit a relationship to evolve. We embrace our fears and insecurities instead of embracing the hopes and desires of the relationship.

Letting it evolve implies that you sit on the river and let the current take you. In truth, what I think Michael is expressing is that you paddle with the flow that the river is taking you. Unfortunately, how you paddle is a rather subjective issue. Every relationship is going to be unique. With Alandra and Kyra their is different things that do well for one but not for the other.

The key is to start with the small steps and always build on the foundation of the relationship. Do you know what is the foundation of your relationship? Are you sure?... Do both of you in the relationship share that? I think it is important that everyone in the relationship is on the same page with regards to their foundation and stay on that same page.

Establish your foundation.. and continuely Validate the Foundation within the relationship... and always seek to take actions that will strength said foundation.

When you buy a house (your foundation)... what do you seek to put into it. What things do you want in your house. This is what you need to think about with regards to "How to begin" Think about 1 thing.. one thing that you would want the most. Maybe it's that big bed.. or that Living room suit... or maybe it's a lamp... who knows... but drill down to that very first step. You didn't fill your home by putting it all in at that same time. You acquired everything you have one thing at a time. So.. you have your foundation.. so what thing do you want to add to it.

The things you add.. needs to be do able for the both of you. You both need to be committed to it and embrace it. It might be as simple as never walk into a room before him unless he tells you... or it could be serving him a drink in a very certain way or it could be never wearing undergarments... or it good be..... and the list goes on. We rarely just do something and become prefect at it. Usually we need to time to become skilled at something.

In my view.. a D/s relationship is about Authority Transfer. So the "things" that I require of my girls are about transfering alittle bit of their power of choice to me. I have them transfer things based on my preferences but also things that will please them. I have written in the past that one has three basic areas to this. Pleasures, Indifferences and Challenges... there is a fourth which is Limits. but the first three is what matters the most. Most of us want to be happy in our life. To do so... we need X amount of pleasures, indifferences and challenges in our life. To many challenges could make is very unhappy and stressed.. but not enough challenges and we become bored and stale. So.. what things we do must be a balance.... As a Dominant... If my girls never do anything that is a Pleasure for them.. well.. they will not be mine for long... and if they don't have an appropriate level of challenges in their life... they will begin to wonder if I am interested in them.

So.. deciding what thing to do.. be it Pleasurable, Indifferent or a Challenge is also about understanding my girls emotional states. To much stress in their life might require a easy Pleasurable thing.. not enough stress might require require a difficult challenge (difficult doesn't mean setup to fail.. difficult still means do able but not without lot of effort)

I could go on and on here... I am only hitting some of the hight lights and their is alot in the depths of taking this path. For me it seems so easy.. but in truth it's only easy because I see the path so clearly... but in the beginning I did not see it. I couldn't see the path for the trees. But...taking one step at a time.. I began to see why I was naturally so successful with Alandra and why I had failed in other relationships. What I learned has allowed me to be very successful with Kyra coming into my life.

quote:

For me, I like to fantasize and play with slaves sleeping on the floor but want my woman curled up next to me in bed. I like to have the right to exercise control in a pretty broad sense but want a partner with whom I don't often feel the need to do so. I like a partner who is monogamous about love but less so about sex. The rest, well I am still watching that evolve.

*chuckles* ... this was a huge fantasy of mine. Sleeping on my bed with a warm body in bed and a slave or slaves at the foot of my bed. Well... I did realize this fantasy a few years ago..... and once again validated that what we fantasize is rarely what is reality. But.. I took the step and still happy about it...

We often learn a hundred ways not to make a light bulb.. these are successes! and finding that one way to make a light bulb is the biggest challenge to success of them all.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 20

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