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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 5:22:01 AM

ProlificNeeds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Someone wrote:

quote:

[1] - You ignore him, shut him off, and make yourself untouchable. Part of you doesn't -want- to be helped. That part of you needs to be swiftly kicked. You need eye contact control firstly. Be mad, be silent, but look him in the eye when you do it. This silent way of keeping a link will allow him to hopefully bring you back down before you seal yourself off for a fit. It's something you have to do yourself. Do not walk away and do not look away. Sit and glare if you must, but try to tough it out in his presence instead of away from him. You are ashamed of your anger and embarassed to let it continue in front of him so you flee what you think might be judgement.

I think that is an interesting tactic, never heard of it but it sounds cool.

One I use is to make her say things that she has trouble believing. In your case, I might ask you "who is the woman I want to be with" and make you say "I am the woman you want to be with". I do it in a nice safe warm place, both physically and emotionally, toward the end of being together. It doesn't work overnight but I have seen it work over time.

The thing is you have to allow yourself to have this fear for now and deal with as a fact of life. If spending 4 hours together is too intense (or kissing, or watching movies, or whatever the trigger is) then spend 3 1/2 hours, end it well, pat yourself on the back, allow him to leave...hope he will come back and then the next day (or whenever) and then beat into your head that he DID come back to you. It won't take right away, but it will.

I use to put up 'independant woman' routine all the time and flee relationships that got tough. Eye contact was one of the core methods of defience, denying my partner the chance to make any kind of impression against the 'wall'. That was why I reccomended it when she mentioned not looking at him. Forced eye contact makes you face the person in some cases, and I find eye contact for many people is a powerful thing, even if they do not realize it themselves.

The section bolded makes me think of the thread on abandonment play. I've never had any experience with such an exercise, but I noticed many people had mixed to negative feelings about the leave-and-return tactic. Do you think it genuinely works?
My only experience in a similar situation was having someons stubbornly 'sit' and wait me out, proving they were indeed more determined than I, which I confess was traumatic and frustrating and entirely broke my pattern of 'shut down' around that individual.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 5:55:57 AM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shysub0951

A little background on myself first then i will ask the question: when i get stressed i will put up a wall around me and basically shut everyone out and just want to be left alone. i can also be openly defiant and get angry easily. i have been working on this so please don't tell me that i need to work on my anger first or i need to talk with someone before i get this way. That's not what i'm looking for.
Now for my question: i have a part time Dom who comes over a couple times a week and he knew of this issue before we met, which is why i'm working on it now. But i feel guilty that i just can't seem to bring myself to actually talk to him about it. When he tries to get close to me i will push him away and refuse to even talk or look at him. i get openly defiant with him, which i mentioned above, and could care less what he does to me, of which i know he will never hurt me intentionally. He has left hurt, in my mind he doesn't really know what to do. i'm waiting for him to say enough is enough and leave. i will eventually talk with him afterwards, or after i ignore him and refuse to follow the rules of sending him an im every night, whichever comes first. What should i do about this? i am scared that he may leave since he has brought me out of my shell quite a bit in the past year. He says that he won't leave until i'm more comfortable with myself, but sometimes i wonder about him leaving earlier.
Thank you to all

My last girl was a bit like you....not getting angry..but not able to talk..and I left often confused. I liked her her more then anything in the world..so I didn't give up. Took 1 to 2 years to make her talk openly to me.....but it always stayed a problem. It is good you know your problem and work towards it. Remember that sometime..as with me..it might cost him to much energy to continue and love/care might turn in to pain.
I decided I had no energy anymore....and had to continue. But that was for me..I don't know how close you 2 are...or how much energy he can put in the relation. For every one it is different. But people can't deal with the same problems for years..once you have to continue....even when you don't really want to ..and get hurt.

anyway...keep working on your self....if it is not for him...do it for yourself and perhaps future lovers/Doms

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 6:12:49 AM

BoundDown

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I don't think the way is that importent. If you can see you are doing these behaviors, then you should be able to stop, unless you are unable to control your emotions, then you need medication.
I am curious about the "part-time" Dom part, is there any intrest toward your relationship becoming a "full-time" relationship?

My advice with what I have to go on would be to see if he would be willing to help by disciplining your ass. I use to be a bitch too, trying to push people away before they could be the ones to hurt me. Daddy changed all that, when I would act up, in his eyes I was acting like a child, he'd spank my ass (I do not like being spanked) and afterwards while wiping away my tears he would talk to me and explain to me that no matter what he was going to love me, he wasn't going that easy. He knew that I would push just to see how far I could push and that wasn't fair to him. I was holding him accountable for all the hurts that had been done to me in my life, it was just him I was doing this with but anyone that I felt vulnerable towards.

But I am no therapist, so maybe you do need professional help. Good luck to you.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 7:31:42 AM

SRV55

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Copy your post. Paste it into an email addressed to him. Press send.

John

Wise advice. Its a witty way of saying...u need better more honest communication with ur partner/

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 8:10:57 AM

DisenchantedLife

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quote:

Eye contact was one of the core methods of defience, denying my partner the chance to make any kind of impression against the 'wall'. That was why I reccomended it when she mentioned not looking at him. Forced eye contact makes you face the person in some cases, and I find eye contact for many people is a powerful thing, even if they do not realize it themselves.

Yes and lack of eye contact is a very effective method. My ex always knew something was wrong when I would refuse to look at him and he stopped exsiting in my world. Lack of eye contact is a great wall and if you are trying to push some one out, it works wonders.

And I wonder... if he had the maturity and intelligence to actually get me to look at him in those times, would I still be stuck in that situation?

IMO - if you feel the need that you can't trust and you are throwing up walls. There is some small part of you that thinks "with this person, a wall is needed, something isn't right here" Everyone gives small little clues. Little tell tale signs. We don't alway want to listen to them, but they are there. Whether we listen or not consciously, we hear subconsciously. Are you sure your sub conscious is not saying "something isn't right here?"

P.S. my ex was patient too... and he wasn't planning on leaving either. Patience and not leaving, aren't always a good thing. An intelligent, mature adult (ect ect ect) - won't put up with such shit. They're going to want some one that is ALSO mature (ect ect ect). If you catch my drift.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 8:35:17 AM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shysub0951

A little background on myself first then i will ask the question: when i get stressed i will put up a wall around me and basically shut everyone out and just want to be left alone. i can also be openly defiant and get angry easily. i have been working on this so please don't tell me that i need to work on my anger first or i need to talk with someone before i get this way. That's not what i'm looking for.
Now for my question: i have a part time Dom who comes over a couple times a week and he knew of this issue before we met, which is why i'm working on it now. But i feel guilty that i just can't seem to bring myself to actually talk to him about it. When he tries to get close to me i will push him away and refuse to even talk or look at him. i get openly defiant with him, which i mentioned above, and could care less what he does to me, of which i know he will never hurt me intentionally. He has left hurt, in my mind he doesn't really know what to do. i'm waiting for him to say enough is enough and leave. i will eventually talk with him afterwards, or after i ignore him and refuse to follow the rules of sending him an im every night, whichever comes first. What should i do about this? i am scared that he may leave since he has brought me out of my shell quite a bit in the past year. He says that he won't leave until i'm more comfortable with myself, but sometimes i wonder about him leaving earlier.
Thank you to all

I think when you get a therapist they may likely say that this is actually a healthy defense mechanism to avoid any stress when you can't handle it. Obviously it can be detrimental to relationships, but you are where you are and you need to be with someone that can accept that. All you can do is work on what you can and take it one day at a time. It's most likely as you learn greater coping skills these times will be less frequent. I don't think you can approach any relationship waiting for the other shoe to drop. He may leave, there are no guarantees. However, as you say it's actually gotten better, there doesn't seem to be a logical conclusion that he's going to leave now from what limited information you have given us.

I've had a long long work week with alot of crisis to respond to. As I sit here today my phone is off and I have no plans to leave my house today other than for errands. I need to be alone and unwind and for me, that is healthy. When I am in a relationship with someone that truly is right for me, they are generally the exception to my timeout days, which are rare, but sometimes necessary.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 4:44:21 PM

MaamJay

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I spent 12 years waiting and encouraging My ex to make the changes he declared he wanted to make the very first night we met. We broke up twice as vanillas over the same problem, he is so sure he will be rejected that he rejects first ... I tried to get him to go to therapy ... he went twice and wouldn't go again because "she didn't tell me what to do and how to fix it, I did all the talking and that's no good!" Total failure to understand how therapy is supposed to work and he wouldn't listen when I explained what would happen if he gave it time. The third (and last time) I took him back was in D/s ... I thought that just maybe, as a sub, he could learn to put someone else before him, learn to trust that someone else might have his best interests at heart, might learn to listen and apply what someone has said ... sadly, no, he couldn't. He didn't in any aspect of his life ... tried to learn accordion and mandolin but wouldn't listen to the teachers and do as they suggested (ie practice small amounts every day) ... so he never mastered it. Finally, when he wanted it to end ... he escalated the obnoxious behaviours beyond belief until finally I knew I had to end it for Master and My health and sanity. He just didn't have the balls to do it himself. At his age, I have doubts now that he will ever change and I find that very sad.

A sub I trialled started exhibiting the same sorts of behaviours ... LOTS of long, long talks ... suggested strategies to overcome that old self weren't taken advantage of, not even attempted ... obedience to simple orders was lacking ... My only success was in out-stubborning them to finally make the decision to end it ... because I did NOT want this particular self-fulfilling prophecy of "they'll reject me eventually" to come true! There was no way I was tying Myself up to another 12 year sentence ... been there, done that, have the scars to prove it!

So, shy sub ... you must realise that the future is in YOUR hands and no others ... people may give you the tools, the advice, the support, the love ... but only YOU can decide to USE the tools, hear and ACT upon the advice, take advantage of the support and rest in the love. Please don't just spin your wheels in the rut of "I know this and this is wrong, I know I want to change ..." then ignore the advice and the tools people suggest to help you MAKE the change. There IS NO MAGIC WAND ... there is no overnight success ... BUT small changes MADE daily add up to eventual success. Yes it will feel odd at first, it will feel threatening, it will feel new and different and not like you ... it's CHANGE and that's what change is. The whole idea is for it to NOT feel like you ... because it is how you feel that you want to change! Ultimately, if you practise it consistently, it will come to feel like you because it WILL BE you ... the new you, the less fearful you, the more confident that you are a person worth loving you, the you that you want to be ... but currently doubt you ever can be.

I wish you action and your Dom patience :-)
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 4:55:31 PM

atursvcMaam

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i am just on the borderline of losing my Domme for exactly this reason. The only thing i can say is to communicate your feelings, if not at the tinme of hurt, explain beforehand that this is your way. if He knows what to expect there will be fewer (honest never no) hurt feelings.
i am hoping that i learned this lesson in time.
Good luck to you with this.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/2/2008 6:32:36 PM

DesFIP

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Ask him when you aren't feeling threatened or insecure to reassure you when you do act this way that he still cares for you. If he's bigger than you, it might help if he simply dragged you into his arms and didn't let you go until you opened up. Ask him for this too. Since this is so difficult to talk about, do it in an email.

I'm not going to tell you to maintain eye contact because I don't think you can. That's a very intimate thing and you simply aren't ready for that level of intimacy now. But physical touch is an amazing thing, it can bring about emotional touch also which is what you most need when you are least capable of it.

Basically people act unlovable out of fear, and it is at those times we need love most.

I'm curious about that statement that he won't leave you till you're stronger. Such a statement must make you feel he is planning to eventually leave so your actions now serve two purposes, first to send him away before his leaving would hurt more, and second by not becoming stronger you can keep him around. Yes I know the two purposes are contradictory but so what, people are illogical and emotion based.

However this isn't a D/s issue, it's a issue from a young age. Nobody grows up happy and secure and one day becomes their own worst enemy, afraid of abandonment and trying to cause it happen and get it over with already. You need a good therapist, not necessarily a KAP one. Until you can afford one, and even afterwards, I recommend ACOA self help groups. You don't have to be an Adult Children of Alcoholics to attend, and the cost is a dollar in the pot.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/5/2008 8:25:18 PM

shysub0951

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Thank you especially to LA, you've always had great advice that i've read with other people in their asking of questions. And yes i do thank him every night before i go to bed and im him.
SimplyMichael: Thank you as well. Unfortantely i have told him vaguely and he's always told me that he doesn't see him leaving me anytime soon. So yea i am trying to cope more with me reactions than anything else. Also thank you for your words of hope, it's just gonna take some time, like LA has mentioned above your post.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/5/2008 8:29:14 PM

shysub0951

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoundDown

I don't think the way is that importent. If you can see you are doing these behaviors, then you should be able to stop, unless you are unable to control your emotions, then you need medication.
I am curious about the "part-time" Dom part, is there any intrest toward your relationship becoming a "full-time" relationship?

My advice with what I have to go on would be to see if he would be willing to help by disciplining your ass. I use to be a bitch too, trying to push people away before they could be the ones to hurt me. Daddy changed all that, when I would act up, in his eyes I was acting like a child, he'd spank my ass (I do not like being spanked) and afterwards while wiping away my tears he would talk to me and explain to me that no matter what he was going to love me, he wasn't going that easy. He knew that I would push just to see how far I could push and that wasn't fair to him. I was holding him accountable for all the hurts that had been done to me in my life, it was just him I was doing this with but anyone that I felt vulnerable towards.

But I am no therapist, so maybe you do need professional help. Good luck to you.

Due to his working and my working plus school there won't be any long term relationship between us, and we've both agreed to it as well. For me he is part time in the sense that he isn't always coming over, maybe a couple days a week for a few hours is all. Disciplining just makes me push him away more so than before, and he knows it, which is why it isn't a good tactic for him to use.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/5/2008 8:36:32 PM

LotusSong

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I would just let you live in your shell and find another who WANTS to be of service.

Life is too short to drink bad wine. Sorry.

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RE: Sub shutting out Dom? - 2/5/2008 10:11:41 PM

MsSaskia

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I just ended a relationship with my submissive yesterday. She'd been angry about something for months but wouldn't talk about it. She started taking out her anger in lots of little passive/aggressive ways. I assumed it was all stuff stemming from stress surrounding the death of a relative, the illness of another and some other things going on that had nothing to do with me. I think a lot of it was that, but she didn't talk with me about the issues she had with me, and things just snowballed. The less we communicated, the worse everything got. By the time she finally got around to saying what was wrong, it was too late.

So yeah, tell him. He's got to know something's up anyway.

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