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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 7:12:32 AM

mistoferin

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I've never heard of anyone who got lost in subspace and didn't come back eventually. I have gotten "stuck" in an altered state when coming out of subspace, sometimes it is not even clear what is happening until the following day and usually it only takes being taken back down in to get me to come fully out of it. It usually seems to occur when aftercare is interrupted for one reason or another, or when the Dominant stops the play as soon as subspace starts. I have noticed that many Dominants seem to be somewhat uncomfortable with subspace and I have often seen Dominants who will stop the play and move to aftercare the moment the sub becomes uncommunicative ( I even think that somewhere along the line they have been told that this is what they are supposed to do).

What works best for me is a Dominant who knows how to control my space. If play stops as soon as I become uncommunicative and I don't get to ride through the whole experience, coming out is uncomfortable. I prefer a Dominant who can control the time I enter space (after they have gotten their "sadistic fix" to the level of their satisfaction) and who ultimately will allow me to go in deep and sustain that level of space for an extended period by varying the intensity of the stimuli. The longer he keeps me there the more fulfilling the experience, and the smoother the transition back out.

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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 7:31:22 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

quote:

It depends on what my intent behind the scene is. If I'm doing spiritual work, I WANT them to go into non-ordinary reality. If I'm indulging my sadist, I'm more apt to keep them in this reality.

Right. He's a sadist and enjoys playing with pain and my reaction to it. I'm a masochist, and am not really looking to 'escape' the pain by entering an altered state of consciousness but want to feel the energy between us.

Going into sub-space doesn't cause me to escape the pain. It just... makes the pain more delicious and I want more of it.

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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 7:36:34 AM

gypsygrl

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quote:

A tactic perhaps would be to get you to seek subspace in the AFTERCARE portion- when nothing is really being done to you, but all the chemicals are still there and the connection can still overwhelm you. A lot of people, including me, find that to be just as great as subspace IN the scene itself.

Exactly. When we have time for an extended cuddle after a session, I curl up with my head on his belly and zone out, wallowing in warm fuzzies. I can also do that by kneeling in front of him and putting my head in his lap whenever I need a few minutes of peace. So, its not like I never do sub-space.

We play a lot through the week, and often times we don't do any aftercare. He just tells me to put the toys away and I ask if I can have a minute to pull myself together first which he almost always grants. But, it really is a matter of getting back to whatever we were doing before the session without a whole lot of ceremony or rigamarole. We also don't do much aftercare at play parties. Its my job to put away the toys and clear our stuff away from the playspace so others can use it. I use that time to collect myself. If I ever need more, I'm to let him know--its generally up to me to assess my own head space and tell him what I need.

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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 8:04:01 AM

gypsygrl

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quote:

I read this part and I made me wonder about your "aftercare". Aftercare should be part of the whole process. It is after everything is over that the sub or bottom needs to feel comforted and held. To bring them back slowly. Just a thought. If you are allowed, I would suggest that you direct your Master to information about aftercare.

We've discussed "aftercare" and he's commented that he's a bit flummoxed by the whole idea, though that's not because of any lack of information on his part. Of course, we cuddle and all that but agree that if I'm that out of it after a scene that I need to be comforted there's was probably something off during the scene so, after he's gotten me on stable footing, we discuss it and how to avoid it in the future. Its one thing to feel really close and cuddly after a session and want to wallow in warm fuzzies but another thing entirely to need comfort. In my mind, a need for comfort is generally a response to trauma so if it happens after a session, its a sign that something's off. Of course, I understand that others play differently and to each their own.

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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 8:44:51 AM

MsVampirella

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Each Dominant and submissive are different...I personally want to take them there to sub-space... For Me and those whom I draw to Me and experience the journey with, it has been a very intense spiritual journey. Having personally, as a Domiant, experienced sub-space during a Training session in an SM tradition I was learning, I definitely want My submissive to experience that realm. I bring them back without a hitch... but I like to witness and experience their energy and state of bliss while there...that does linger with the ecstatic euphoric peace they experience afterwards... Yes, at first there is the fear, the HOLY-SHIT feeling and some may have a hard time dealing with it the first time...but they love to go there and would be disappointed I think, if I were to stop right at the edge and proceed no further... There are times that I even stop them once or twice just to tease them deliberately and listen to them beg to be taken there before I proceed....

It is NOT dangerous to take one there to sub-space UNLESS the submissive has some psychological problems. That would be the ONLY time of concern for danger. I have never known a normal sane individual to be in danger of going to sub-space. Honestly, that sounds like a cop out to Me.

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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 8:48:36 AM

gypsygrl

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quote:

I have never heard of someone that has not come back from subspace... perhaps you could ask him about that because I am now curious about it.

Well, I asked him and he says that sometimes, they come out of subspace, get in their car and take off and never come back. I've done that a couple times (not with him). I was fine so long as I was under, but as soon as I was back up, I was like, "Fuck that shit, I'm outta here."

But, I've had difficulty coming back and have remained dissociated for extended periods of time (days, not minutes or hours) after sessions with others. I can definitely see the possibility there (and often wonder if that's whats going on in some relationships that I don't understand.) His awareness of the risks is a product of how he learned about this stuff and not so much from direct experience...he learned early on that there's somethings ya don't want to mess with and didn't mess with them. Again, this works for the two of us in our dynamic--there's places I don't want to go and there's places he doesn't want to take me--if others are more comfortable messing, to each their own.

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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 8:50:26 AM

meticulousgirl

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i've been there a few times with my Owner but, it's not a frequent occurance, subdrop happens much more than subspace these days....

~meticulous~

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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 9:33:59 AM

CalifChick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Well, I asked him and he says that sometimes, they come out of subspace, get in their car and take off and never come back. I've done that a couple times (not with him). I was fine so long as I was under, but as soon as I was back up, I was like, "Fuck that shit, I'm outta here."

But, I've had difficulty coming back and have remained dissociated for extended periods of time (days, not minutes or hours) after sessions with others. I can definitely see the possibility there (and often wonder if that's whats going on in some relationships that I don't understand.) His awareness of the risks is a product of how he learned about this stuff and not so much from direct experience...he learned early on that there's somethings ya don't want to mess with and didn't mess with them. Again, this works for the two of us in our dynamic--there's places I don't want to go and there's places he doesn't want to take me--if others are more comfortable messing, to each their own.

So the "danger" in his eyes is that someone will walk out of his life?? That almost sounds like, "if I show you too much that I care, you'll get scared and leave." Just my perception anyway.

As far as "not coming back"... someone has been watching too many bad television movies of past life regression.

Cali

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RE: Sub-space (again!) - 1/29/2008 10:31:50 AM

DesFIP

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He wants me there with him. Afterwards, if there's time, he may leave me still tied, blindfolded and gagged with a light blanket and let me float until I relax into sleep. But I don't have a history of fugue states or dissociation, if I did then I wouldn;'t want to go there.

Oh, did zone out a lot from ADD as a munchkin but that was a different feel.

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