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East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 6:50:27 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I thought I'd share this - its for all those in the UK who think all east/central Europeans are ne'er do wells, criminals and so on.

It was last Saturday. I was recovering (not that there was much or any recovering to do) from my op, out in Prague. I was to return home on the Monday, so I decided to go do some essential shopping (cigarettes at £2-00 a pack is essential!). Only one problem; I couldnt find my bank card.

I went through my bag, my clothes, I looked all over the apartment, I went everywhere I'd been asking after it. No sign.

So, I had no choice but to phone it in and report it as lost/stolen. I got through, verified my identity and was told (thank goodness) that the card had been found, reported and stopped by someone already, a day or so previously - presumably a Czech, for whom the money possible to acquire by way of that card (a fair bit by UK standards) would have represented what, a few months' salary?

Regrettably - because I'd like to convey my sincere thanks, they cant tell me who it was, but anyway it just goes to show that the Torygraph and the Daily (Anglo Saxon Protestant) Male and their ilk are very misleading in the way they comment from time to time.

The truth is, there are good and bad everywhere, and as long as the former outnumber the latter we'll be alright.

E



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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 7:19:27 AM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		In other news this week....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3247820.ece

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 11:31:19 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Why on earth you guys would let a country like Romania into the E.U. makes no sense whatsoever.
Gee, why don't you just let in some fourth world countries like Haiti if you want to pay other countries' bills.
Who's next into the E.U. India? Bangladesh? Somalia?

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 11:40:21 AM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I personally can't wait for the inclusion of Turkey so that we can all learn from their fine human rights example. The EU has always been a total and utter madness that makes no sense. Once upon a time it was a trading block and now it's a super state eager to boast the world’s largest population of democracy. Even though democracy is a fallacy where control is becoming more and more centralised with others living in far off parts dictating how we should live. People must realise that the more centralised decision making becomes the less and less those decisions are going to be made for their benefit. How on earth can laws be made for your benefit if the people making them don’t even realise you exist? We float onwards into one happy clappy society of self righteousness though.

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Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 12:15:21 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

I personally can't wait for the inclusion of Turkey so that we can all learn from their fine human rights example. The EU has always been a total and utter madness that makes no sense. Once upon a time it was a trading block and now it's a super state eager to boast the world’s largest population of democracy. Even though democracy is a fallacy where control is becoming more and more centralised with others living in far off parts dictating how we should live. People must realise that the more centralised decision making becomes the less and less those decisions are going to be made for their benefit. How on earth can laws be made for your benefit if the people making them don’t even realise you exist? We float onwards into one happy clappy society of self righteousness though.


Raechard, well said.
It would probably make sense for Western European countries to have a E.U. but beyond that it just makes no sense whatsoever.
Even with only Western European countries in it it would be problematic.
What's the next step, invite the United States to become a member of the E.U.?
Yes, the Turks can teach the Europeans how to beat the bottom of children's feet with a stick when they misbehave!
Look at "NATO."
Another totally useless beauracracy with plenty of people sitting in offices making $100k for doing nothing and whose sole reason for being (The old Soviet Union) doesn't even exist anymore!
Beauracracies are like a cancer that needs to be surgically removed.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 12:18:38 PM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Why on earth you guys would let a country like Romania into the E.U. makes no sense whatsoever.


low labour costs / outsourcing - and we'll get Ukraine in if/when the Romanians ask for a decent wage

next question?

E

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 12:46:48 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Lady E...Firstly good luck with your recovery.

quote:

Regrettably - because I'd like to convey my sincere thanks, they cant tell me who it was, but anyway it just goes to show that the Torygraph and the Daily (Anglo Saxon Protestant) Male and their ilk are very misleading in the way they comment from time to time.


I dont see them saying everyone entering the UK is a criminal, like it or not there seem to be a significant proportion who are though. Its a disgrace that poor imigration policies, especially checks and balances, has led to the situation these poor kids have found themselves in.

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 1:25:13 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

I personally can't wait for the inclusion of Turkey so that we can all learn from their fine human rights example. The EU has always been a total and utter madness that makes no sense. Once upon a time it was a trading block and now it's a super state eager to boast the world’s largest population of democracy. Even though democracy is a fallacy where control is becoming more and more centralised with others living in far off parts dictating how we should live.
 


Agreed, with the exception of "the EU makes no sense" - it would be useful to explain what form of EU your statment is concerned with.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

People must realise that the more centralised decision making becomes the less and less those decisions are going to be made for their benefit.
 


Not necessarily. I do believe in localised power, but the head of the British government is as capable of corruption and self-interest as the head of the EU.

I do think, however, that localised power is better placed to promote involvement in the democratic process because a) for many of us, our current government is hundreds of miles away and completely detached and b) most politicians are drawn from a certain background.

Ultimately, empowering people is a better option than control through centralisation.

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 3:08:48 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		The point I was really making is similar to the point I make about entering the Euro scheme; that if the people setting interest rates are setting them from afar then who are they setting them for? If some part of Europe is slowing down but other parts booming then what one interest rate is going to suit? They will set them only to benefit the people local to them that they care more about.
 
The same thing can be seen with fishing, French farm subsidies etc. etc. Member states will always put their own interests first and we have such a small voice in Europe, partly because we are Euro sceptics I suppose but mostly because the EU is about redistribution of wealth. Leftist nonsense that we can save the world by making everyone equally poor is the ethos behind the EU.
 
Besides the EU is a trading block but now it is a trading block with access to our phone calls information. Big brother and bigger brother.

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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 3:13:25 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		There is a reason they call it the European project, some would even call it an experiment. My statement is concerned with EU involvement in our lives beyond the original reason for it; trade.

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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 4:17:37 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Raechard, now than you guys have the E.U. isn't it time to withdraw from the "U.N.?"
At one time I belonged to 8 different civic organisations.
The "dues" alone was costing me $400-$500 per year!
I had to get out of most of them because I just didn't have the time or money that it took to remain in them!
Sure enough, more orgs wanted me to join "their" organisation.
That stuff goes for countries just like it does for individuals.

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 4:38:48 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Yes but being on the security council does have benefits such as justifying which countries to invade. It’s a popularity contest and if the rest of the UN hates you then you know you are doing something right. I’m, kind of wondering how I can get one of those UN jobs with the limitless budgets.
 
The problem with the UN is it has no real purpose other than to agree what is right or wrong. It’s a bit like a policeman that stands around on the street corner and shouts at people that break the law; no power just words. To those that say words have their own power they obviously haven’t read all those previous UN resolutions. From resolution 242 to 1768 all open to individual interpretation and self interest.
 
I see words, it’s just a talking shop really.

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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/26/2008 6:27:35 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		It does seem kind of screwed up that the EU gets 2 seats on the Seucrity Council and like 30 votes in the general assembly, now.  The EU needs to lose seats.

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/27/2008 3:22:46 AM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Maybe you are right we should give up one of the seats and let the emerging nuclear powers such as Pakistan and Iran have a seat instead?

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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/27/2008 3:33:19 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

The point I was really making is similar to the point I make about entering the Euro scheme; that if the people setting interest rates are setting them from afar then who are they setting them for? If some part of Europe is slowing down but other parts booming then what one interest rate is going to suit?
 


I agree that it's a nonsense to have a single interest rate across economies of varying strengths. My issue is on praticality, rather than a perceived view that the leaders of the EU are any more or less capable of self-interest than the leaders of England.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard
 
They will set them only to benefit the people local to them that they care more about.
 


I think this one's a red herring, because you could apply the same argument to our government in London - why would people who live in London care any more about Northerners than those living in say Brussels or Paris?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard
 
Leftist nonsense that we can save the world by making everyone equally poor is the ethos behind the EU.
 


Very much wide of the mark. The aim of the EU is to ensure the prosperity of Europeans for generations to come. Now, whether you believe the EU is an appropriate vehicle for achieving this, is another matter.

Personally, I'd like to the EU have a limited place with co-ordinating responsibilities in areas such as climate change, common trade interests etc. In terms of law, taxation, interest rates etc, I do not want to see us hand over power to manage our economy.

We have a small voice in the EU? You must be joking. Which nation's model do you think the Germans and French are busy copying? and why do they continue to court us when the message they get over and over again from our government is one of indifference to them? Because they need us in there, and that's not just because of the strength of our economy, but because of our influence around the world. People still listen to our government because they have respect around the world for being superb administrators; they may be talking utter shite half of the time, but foreign dignitaries go away impressed because our polticians present their case in such a way that it appears they know exactly what they're talking about. Britain still punches above its weight in the world arena. Think of how many pies our government has its fingers in: good relations with the oil rich countries in the Middle East, good relations with the United States, courted by the continental Europeans even though we consistently offer indifference to them, advanced trade with Russia (regardless of the current tit-for-tat), well devleoped links with China and well placed to tap into India. Regardless of their shortcomings, the people who run our country have a history of being more than decent statesmen, and the continental Europeans are well aware of this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Besides the EU is a trading block but now it is a trading block with access to our phone calls information. Big brother and bigger brother.



Our government is not averse to gathering information for whatever purposes they see fit, so I'd say the above is another red herring.

If your issue is control over your life; I don't think the EU is any more or less equipped and willing to take control than the government in London.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/27/2008 3:47:03 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

now than you guys have the E.U. isn't it time to withdraw from the "U.N.?"



If you recognise that every person on this planet has a common interest with the rest of the world, i.e. managing not to blow ourselves into oblivion, and responsible use of the planet's resources, then there is a role for a world co-ordinating body.

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/27/2008 4:36:33 AM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I think this one's a red herring, because you could apply the same argument to our government in London - why would people who live in London care any more about Northerners than those living in say Brussels or Paris?


I see it more like a numbers game; in parliament each MP represents a certain number of people but in the EU an MEP represents the same number of people but his vote is diluted by the many more other MEP's from other parts of Europe. The weighting system also confuses the process making no one understand where the real power rests. I feel the vote doesn't tally up and you get less say because you are shouting to be heard in a larger crowd of people.
 
Yes the UK is probably already a police state but at least in the past you could be sure any trial held that you would be appearing in would be in your own country being heard by people that share an understanding of your culture. I see a future where people are being moved from their homes to a foreign culture to face trial. It has already happened in terms of the Natwest 3 to the US and if you think the EU isn't at some point going to want to prosecute laws rather than just create them I think you are kidding yourself.



< Message edited by Raechard -- 1/27/2008 4:37:51 AM >

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/27/2008 10:22:40 PM   
MasterKalif


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Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline 		Raechard,

The UK has done this to foreign nationals even those from countries that were not under UK influence (ex. colonies, protectorates, etc) for example General Pinochet when he was unlawfully detained in London in 1998...each country has to try their own people by their own peers.

Yet it is interesting how that same law falters and has a trembling hand when it comes to Mugabe in Zimbabwe and other useless dictators who are invited to Britain to participate in forums/conferences...

Can you imagine the French courts trying cases that ocurred in Britain by British citizens against British citizens? Hopefully the Monarchy will not be replaced by the bureaucrats in Brussels...

< Message edited by MasterKalif -- 1/27/2008 10:25:04 PM >

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/28/2008 12:29:45 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

It does seem kind of screwed up that the EU gets 2 seats on the Seucrity Council and like 30 votes in the general assembly, now.  The EU needs to lose seats.


The EU isn't a government and has no foreign policy, each member of the EU has an independent foreign policy which is why Britain licked the US's arse and went to Iraq and France said the whole WMD and Iraq affair was bullshit.

However, many in the EU have recognize that it needs a foreign policy to exert its interest and that having a single seat on the UN  security council would be part of that. France and Britain having a seat and Germany, the largest economy in the EU not having one, is plainly ridiculous. For this to happen it would require the EU to become a national state of some description and many Europeans are against that. In fact I think I'm the only Brit on these threads that believes in the EU being a unitary state of some kind and I guess that is because I've spent half my life living in various European countries and speak four languages so I know the reality of what is going on and don't have to rely on biased journalism and lying politicians to get my information. I also have a daughter that is part Brit, Dutch and French. Many European governments also believe that since the world no longer reflects the power situation post WWII, the security council should be reformed to reflect the power situation today and would like to see both India and Japan on the security council.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 1/28/2008 12:39:39 AM >

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RE: East European Criminality - 1/28/2008 12:36:02 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

now than you guys have the E.U. isn't it time to withdraw from the "U.N.?"



If you recognise that every person on this planet has a common interest with the rest of the world, i.e. managing not to blow ourselves into oblivion, and responsible use of the planet's resources, then there is a role for a world co-ordinating body.


NG, I don't recognise that because that's a bunch of malarkey.
As for the E.U. being involved in "climate change" maybe someone should tell them that the "U.N." thinks that they are in charge of "global warming."
The two are the same, right?
Man, you EUer's wouldn't want to step out of line on the "U.N."

_____________________________

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