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Getting experince in the lifestyle - 1/24/2008 11:34:39 PM

MasterHardxdrive

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline

There alot of people online and in real life looking for knowledge about the bdsm lifestyle. We can find here in the forums, other website or by just talking to people who are not newbies. Alot of us including myself didn't have the internet to learn from. I strongly believe nike said it the best. "Just do it". Thats what I did and yes I maybe some mistakes along the way. Some I can laugh about today. What are your thoughts?

Post #: 1

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/3/2008 9:12:52 PM

LunaticDesign

Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline

The only way to truly understand BDSM is to do it. For those of you who do online I'd recomend trying it for real. There is really nothing like being helpless and beaten by someone you know cares very deeply for you. There's also nothing like the feeling of satisfaction you get when you see the look on your subs face at the end of a scene that you spent a long time preparing for.

and there's nothing like really meeting people who have similar experiances that you do. You'll occasionally find your self saying or thinking, "you don't have any idea how that made me feel" and then learning that they actually do and they're supportive of you.

(in reply to MasterHardxdrive)

Post #: 2

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 1:58:51 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Well, for a start, BDSM isn't a lifestyle - it is an acronym.
Secondly, I don't believe that you have to practise BDSM outside your comfort zone and be part of any 'community' to understand yourself, BDSM or anyone else. Whilst it is great meeting new people, the reality is that BDSM clubs, munches etc are no different from attending a book club or any other organisation that you have something in common with.

That said, Darcy and I do participate, but believe that the 'community' or 'lifestyle' are words that can be misused to make those that choose to participate in the comfort of their own home feel as though they are not really contributing and suffer mini guilt trips because they aren't 'seen'.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to MasterHardxdrive)

Post #: 3

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 2:12:52 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

[For some people, online is their reality - it is their fetish. And experimenting with ones fetish is not a bad thing persay. Don't negate online relationships and stimulation just because they don't seem 'real' to you. To those that do enjoy it, it is very much a real thing. BDSM isn't just about being beaten, there are many more facets than a simple helpless encounter. In some Ds or Ms relationships, BDSM isn't even utilised to it's full extent.

It may sond as though I am being dismissive - but no one can know how I feel. No one can understand how anyone else feels. We are all individuals with different takes and ways of expressing ourselves. I have many friends who are supportive of what I participate in, and the majority would never do wiitwd themselves.

Not everyone wants or needs to get out into some 'community' or live a 'lifestyle', they just want to be themselves and not derided or though less of because they don;t have the urge to 'belong'.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LunaticDesign)

Post #: 4

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 5:04:19 AM

Dnomyar

Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

Im's myself and beats the hell out of me. Hey this is cool no bruises.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 5

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 6:58:34 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

It is like most things in life that things have their place and benefits but to rely on just one thing or type is dangerous.

I think the best way for someone new is to use all sources of information and to make a committed effort in experiencing what this life is in real life. Just using one source whether Internet only, socializing in a local community or taken the life as gospel from the first person you go with has its major drawbacks.

I do echo what has been written that there just is a correlation between a person committed to go out and actually experience this life that end up living it and embracing it and ones who get lost in their minds and over romanticize and build up the life to an unattainable dream. But there is a difference between knowing oneself and what works best for oneself and over buildup, just as there is a difference between actively pursuing real time and jumping in without thought.

We are human beings and not robots. We all have a path that is unique to ourselves. For me in the end my question and advice to anyone are you making progress to what you are wanting or are you dead in your tracks looking for a magical push that will not come. Because in my years in this life the people I see stuck not being able to go to real time it is not about the tool they are using (Internet/local community) but there own mind and heart.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to MasterHardxdrive)

Post #: 6

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 7:31:20 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I catch a lot of crap for My opinions about electronic vrs life experience. I'm a huge supporter for getting out and seeing things first hand, rather than reading about them on the message board. I suppose that is because, for Me, the two dimensional experience just doesn't compare with what can exist away from the screen. As wonderful as someone's writings may be about the feeling of a flogger, the thought process of being dominated, the sense of control in the spirit, it just doesn't seem to measure up to the sting of the flesh, the mental whirlwind, or the captivation that floods the senses in real life.

I'm not saying that on line is meaningless. For some, it can engulf everything that they need and want. For others, it just doesn't. It is very few and far between that I ever hear or see of those who thought the screen was ultimately superior to flesh and blood. It makes Me wonder how many who prefer to stay on line only would trade it to have their connections made face to face?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 7

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 1:32:03 PM

LunaticDesign

Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline

"BDSM isn't just about being beaten, there are many more facets than a simple helpless encounter."

Why is it when I use a fairly simple example someone always feels the need to label me as one of the one hit wonders. Believe it or not tied, helpless and beaten is a fairly thematic element to many scenes that get played. I used it because it covers Bondage and dicipline (tied), Domination and submission (feeling of helplessness), and Sadism and Masochism (being beaten).It is probably so common because it is fairly easy to pull off all three elements in it. If you want to split hairs then by all means go ahead.

"It may sond as though I am being dismissive - but no one can know how I feel. No one can understand how anyone else feels."

I guess I didn't use the word similar often enough to please you. I don't know about you but I have talked with other submissives following the cool down period of a scene and the way we felt about our vastly diffrent scenes and vastly diffrent Dominants were very similar, to the point of wondering if people were reading my mind. You could also read the many threads about sub-space on this board and you'll notice they are all similar. We are all diffrent people and we see things in diffrent ways and the remarkable thing is that we all are very similar in many respects. The concept of "no one knows what I'm going through" is one usually reseved for those people trying to cut themselves off from anyone who might very well know what they're going through and may very well care.

"For some people, online is their reality - it is their fetish. And experimenting with ones fetish is not a bad thing persay. Don't negate online relationships and stimulation just because they don't seem 'real' to you. To those that do enjoy it, it is very much a real thing."

I very much believe in the ideal that "your kink is just as fine as mine". To those of you who have only played online and only want to play online "I'd recomend trying it for real". First off I started it with a recomedation. It's my opinion that if you enjoy it online you may want to find out what a flogger really feels like when it hits you, or what it's like to wait on your knees holding an ashtray while your Dominant has a long conversation with another Dominant, or what it's like after the end of a scene when your dominant is lovingly putting you back together, or what it feels like to be tied up by someone else, or the look in the eye that your submissive has when they have finally come back to themself, or etc (was that enough examples this time?). It no point in my post did I mention negating online relationships. No, online is not real to me, but if that's your kink okay. I still RECOMEND that you try it for "real".

"Well, for a start, BDSM isn't a lifestyle - it is an acronym."

BDSM is an acronym and a lifestyle. They are many people who live BDSM (Bondage/Discipline, Domination/Submission, Sadism/Masochism) 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. To them it is indeed a lifestyle and it is very real. To some people it's just a line on a chatroom. To some people it means a few minutes of fun in the bed room. Being tolerant of what people believe should be a cornerstone of this "lifestyle".

To finish off I'd recommend to any praticionar of BDSM what I'd recommend to any cat-shit-candle maker. Find people who have similar interests. Learn from them because no matter how good you are or how long you have been doing it someone else out there knows how to make a better candle out of cat shit than you do. With this in mind please feel free to apply to BDSM and to read the newspaper. The purpose of community should be for the edification and education of people. Things like can you safely attach your wife's nipples to a wall socket, can be addressed before the result in the loss of life. Things like, when your submissive is gagged how do you know when they need to stop can be discussed. All of these things are things you could have read about in a book, online, or talked face to face with a Dominant who's been playing for 30 years. I don't know about you but I'm one of those who learns best by doing. Which, according to my last sociology class, is the way the majority of people learn. Community is needed, understanding is needed, and most importantly understanding is needed.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 8

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 2:04:32 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

Domination and submission derive from personalities...often enjoying play in the kinky, sexual fetishes. It can be a 'lifestyle' if those who practice this choose to make it one.

Master/slave IS a relationship and thus a lifestyle...often enjoying the same fetishes.

BDSM is NOT a lifestyle but simply more kinky, sexual fetishes.

(in reply to LunaticDesign)

Post #: 9

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 2:15:46 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

You have just done exactly the thing you keep defending yourself over and accusing others of doing.
You are second guessing every single thing I just wrote. And you haven;t even got it remotely correct.

Everything you post is YOUR ideas. YOUR thoughts. YOUR opinion.
I have already posted elsewhere that I understand you are stating YOUR opinion.

I posted mine. It wasn't posted as an attack. I never said your were wrong. I never implied your words are one hit wonders. It was a different opinion to yours. That is what happens in a discussion. Not everyone is going to agree with you and will post their view.

No one should expect a disclaimer - people are (hopefully) adult enough to understand that when one posts something, one is posting ones own words and thoughts, not the law.

We disagree - I gave a different POV. Its not an attack, believe me if I thought you were talking shit, I would say it was bullshit. I gave a different viewpoint. Nothing more.

As for trying it for 'real' if someone gets their sexual kicks from typing on a screen, that is their fetish. Maybe the real thing wouldn;t do it for them. Yeah, they might want to try it - but have you ever considered that it isn't the whip and the spanking that is the turn on, but the words themselves? Word fetishest do exist.

For you its a lifestyle. I don;t live a lifestyle. I live me. For me, BDSM is an acronym, nothing more. These are my thoughts on the subject, not yours. Realise this and that your definitions are not right for everyone and move on.

And try to cease assuming and second guessing that when someone disagrees with you, they are launching some kind of attack on you or your integrity. They are disagreeing, no other motives. You simply don't hold that much importance for it to become personal.

Have a wonderful day.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LunaticDesign)

Post #: 10

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 2:24:22 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaticDesign

BDSM is an acronym and a lifestyle. They are many people who live BDSM (Bondage/Discipline, Domination/Submission, Sadism/Masochism) 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. To them it is indeed a lifestyle and it is very real. To some people it's just a line on a chatroom. To some people it means a few minutes of fun in the bed room. Being tolerant of what people believe should be a cornerstone of this "lifestyle".

And this deserve another post.
BDSM does not have to include D/s - BDSM to many people simply is Bondage, Discipline/Sadisn/Masochism.
The acronym you gave is your definition. Is all cool. But it's not mine, nor is it the definition of many others. In fact the first time I came across Ds as a part of the acronym was online - so I would surmise it is a pretty new addition. Again that is my impression. (Damn disclaimers).
For you it's a lifestyle. But it isn't for a vast majority of people. I can;t remember who has this as their tagline and this isn't precise - but its 'I don't live a livestyle, it lives in me.' - pretty much cool hey.
I live wiitwd every hour of every day, just to clear up any misunderstanding you may or may not have on my 'participation'.

I reiterate. It is cool you have your definitions and explanations - but it's not something that will work for everyone.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LunaticDesign)

Post #: 11

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 2:30:05 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaticDesign

They are many people who live BDSM (Bondage/Discipline, Domination/Submission, Sadism/Masochism) 24 hours a day and 7 days a week.

Are these people indenpendently wealthy?

How exactly do they fit in eating, sleeping, seeing family, taking care of kids, and working with the 24 hour 7 day a week endless bondage and S/M sessions?

I doubt anyone is so one dimensional, so I tend to find this kind of thing to be incredibly false.

Or at the very least, someone who clearly needs more hobbies...

To me, the "lifestyle" is an identity. If you feel the need to strap on this identity, get off the sidelines and start collecting your experience merit badges, and run through the streets screaming "Yeeeaaaa! I'm hip! I'm cool! I'm part of the lifestyle!", well...hey your kink is your kink.

I also think that anyone who is on a quest to "gain experience" is really missing out on the point.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to LunaticDesign)

Post #: 12

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 3:16:02 PM

Erotomania

Posts: 30
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaticDesign

They are many people who live BDSM (Bondage/Discipline, Domination/Submission, Sadism/Masochism) 24 hours a day and 7 days a week.

Are these people indenpendently wealthy?

How exactly do they fit in eating, sleeping, seeing family, taking care of kids, and working with the 24 hour 7 day a week endless bondage and S/M sessions?

I doubt anyone is so one dimensional, so I tend to find this kind of thing to be incredibly false.

Or at the very least, someone who clearly needs more hobbies...

To me, the "lifestyle" is an identity. If you feel the need to strap on this identity, get off the sidelines and start collecting your experience merit badges, and run through the streets screaming "Yeeeaaaa! I'm hip! I'm cool! I'm part of the lifestyle!", well...hey your kink is your kink.

I also think that anyone who is on a quest to "gain experience" is really missing out on the point.

I know LD, and I know what he's referring to. We have met quite a few people for whom the 'lifestyle' is all they know and unfortunately they don't seem to be capable of anything else. Sure, they take care of bills, familiy matters, etc. But, when it comes down to it, they can't keep friends who aren't into BDSM in one way or another, and even then they don't seem to keep the ones that aren't useful to them anymore.. An abuse of BDSM in this case, to some extent, but they aren't the only ones.

Personally, I'd find it extremely difficult to live a 24/7/365 days a year BDSM related lifestyle. As if there isn't enough stress in the vanilla sense, and both having a submissive or being one is a lot of responsibility, especially when it comes down to 24/7/365. Then again, I wouldn't personally get much out of online interaction either. Than again, I'm a sensation whore.. But everyone's different. ;)

On another note.. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to gain experience. I've made quite a few mistakes regarding BDSM, and most of them were at least partially made possible by a lack of experience or misinformation, if not both. Seems to me that seeking experience is a good thing.. No submissive (I hope) would want to do fireplay with a Dom who has no experience with it (unless they have an experienced person there.. but that's just my opinion.) And I know that, as a top, I'd much rather have at least SOME experience ith something before I do it. Straying from those positive aspects of experience.. I don't think it's a very bad thing to want to be able to identify with the people withing your community or group, be it BDSM, your neighbors, your workplace, etc. Having experience with a common interest doesn't hurt. ^_^;

You don't have to have endless sessions to live a 24/7/365 lifestyle. There are plenty of ways to live like that without an actual scene/session, and I'd seen it in action.. Definitely not my thing, and it amazes me that people can actually pull it off (although in some cases I don't really think it's a good idea at all). So, LD isn't false when it cmes to that..

But.. yep.. Just my opinions. Take them or leave them as you like.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 13

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 3:23:19 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I believe that no matter what you learn about BDSM, online or off, it cannot prepare you for the lifestyle until you live it.
You can learn online about bondage, about S&M. You can read about domination and submission. You can prepare yourself for the technicalities and the techniques you believe you will need. However, until you have a partner, there is no way to know how all of the theory will play out in person. You cannot learn how to interact with someone, becasue there are more things to learn about that then can ever be covered in a book.
Learning about the acronyms parts can be done online, in a book and from contacts.
Learning about the lifestyle and having a working dynamic can only be accomplished with the partner you plan on living that lifestyle with. And even once youve learned that, you relearn it every time its with a new partner.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Erotomania)

Post #: 14

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 3:39:59 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erotomania

I know LD, and I know what he's referring to. We have met quite a few people for whom the 'lifestyle' is all they know and unfortunately they don't seem to be capable of anything else. Sure, they take care of bills, familiy matters, etc. But, when it comes down to it, they can't keep friends who aren't into BDSM in one way or another, and even then they don't seem to keep the ones that aren't useful to them anymore.. An abuse of BDSM in this case, to some extent, but they aren't the only ones.

Clearly they need more hobbies.

quote:

On another note.. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to gain experience. I've made quite a few mistakes regarding BDSM, and most of them were at least partially made possible by a lack of experience or misinformation, if not both. Seems to me that seeking experience is a good thing..

I'm afraid you've missed the point. I would say seeking experiences and learning new things out of a desire to enjoy them with your partner is one thing. People overly focused on gaining the experience out of some need to develop some BDSM career as opposed to for the experience itself are people I find to be missing the point.

quote:

No submissive (I hope) would want to do fireplay with a Dom who has no experience with it (unless they have an experienced person there.. but that's just my opinion.) And I know that, as a top, I'd much rather have at least SOME experience ith something before I do it.

How do you gain the experience without doing it?

quote:

Straying from those positive aspects of experience.. I don't think it's a very bad thing to want to be able to identify with the people withing your community or group, be it BDSM, your neighbors, your workplace, etc. Having experience with a common interest doesn't hurt. ^_^;

Doesn't change the fact that most references to the "lifestyle" are a shallow idenitifier.

quote:

You don't have to have endless sessions to live a 24/7/365 lifestyle. There are plenty of ways to live like that without an actual scene/session, and I'd seen it in action.. Definitely not my thing, and it amazes me that people can actually pull it off (although in some cases I don't really think it's a good idea at all). So, LD isn't false when it cmes to that..

So have I. I know quite a few people who incorporate ritual and their dynamics into their lifestyle on a 24/7 basis. It's just their lifestyles aren't drastically different from everyone else who isn't part of the lifestyle, nor are their individuals not individualistic and not copies of some ultimate "lifestyle".

Edited to Add : I'm sorry if I come off somewhat abrasive. I have just been trying to figure out for a really long time what exactly "the" lifestyle entails and nobody has been able to give me a straight answer.

Just get tired of hearing about it over and over again....

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 2/4/2008 3:41:54 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Erotomania)

Post #: 15

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 6:47:41 PM

LunaticDesign

Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline

"You have just done exactly the thing you keep defending yourself over and accusing others of doing.
You are second guessing every single thing I just wrote. And you haven;t even got it remotely correct. "

My intention was not in second guessing what you had written. I was merely addressing points you made in your previous post. I felt as I was being attacked, therefore I defended myself. I apologise if I misinterpreted your post and I did not intend for my responce to have been seen as an attack. Since, it was in error in communication I apologise and will try to be clearer in the future.

"Everything you post is YOUR ideas. YOUR thoughts. YOUR opinion.
I have already posted elsewhere that I understand you are stating YOUR opinion."

Excellent now, hopefully, people will stop accusing me of stating some sort of "law" as opposed to my own opinion. Which, means we can get down to the actual discussion at hand.

"Word fetishest do exist."

I agree. What ever there is no matter what it is there are probably at least 2 people who get a sexual kick out of it and at least 3 websites devoted to it. I am speaking of BDSM which has had many diffrent meanings to many diffrent people but I have found Bondage/Discipline, Domination/Submission, and Sadism/Masochism to be rather all inclusive. However BDSM is kind of like burger king in the sense that you can have it your way. So you like yours heavy on the BD light on the DS and hold the SM and oh can I have fries with that, ok. Your kink is completely fine with me.

There is however a world of diffrence between Fetish and BDSM. The two are similar but not exactly the same. You may define them as the same which is okay but I do not. A fetish is something that you get a sexual charge out of. You may like to smell women's socks and you might even get off on it but the idea of Bondage,discipline,domination, submission, sadism, or masochism turns you off faster than the media misunderstands. BDSM can include fetishes. Personally, I can't imagine BDSM with out fetish but I'm certain that someone out there manages it just fine.

"For you its a lifestyle. I don;t live a lifestyle. I live me. For me, BDSM is an acronym, nothing more. These are my thoughts on the subject, not yours. Realise this and that your definitions are not right for everyone and move on. "

Well put and an excellent point but you are assuming things about me again. I do not lead a BDSM lifestyle. I merely stated that is a lifestyle to some and that warrants just as much respect as your opinion that it is just an acronym. There is a very large diffrence between lifestyle BDSM, "bedroom" BDSM, and casual BDSM. Neither is better nor worse than the other. They are just diffrent.

"I reiterate. It is cool you have your definitions and explanations - but it's not something that will work for everyone."

I'm sorry if I have come across as trying to force my definitions for things onto other people. I am simply defining terms as I understand them in an attempt to prevent confusion as to where I am coming from. Defining terms that can have multiple meanings such as BDSM, I believe, is essential before any meaningful discussion can begin. A conversation where there is a constant misunderstanding on foundational points is useless.

Dear Mad Rabbit,

I'll attempt to address points of your post in the order they were written. Please do not see this as an attempt to pick apart what you have said but an attempt to communicate with expediance

"Are these people indenpendently wealthy?"

None that I know. Most are pretty much just like everyday average people in the sense they they pay bills and sometimes struggle to make ends meet.

"How exactly do they fit in eating, sleeping, seeing family, taking care of kids, and working with the 24 hour 7 day a week endless bondage and S/M sessions?"

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. BDSM is not entirely about play to everyone. A 24/7 or TPE relationship is typically more about the D/s than the BD or SM. Though I have heard stories about submissives who have to always wash the dishes with their hands in a yoke. A 24/7 couple might go several weeks without playing but the essence of it is that The dominant is always the dominant and the submissive is always the submissive. The exchange of power and the gift of consent and submission do not end with the end of a session. If you want there are many online articles and books devoted to 24/7 or TPE relationships. I personally do not practice 24/7 or TPE but I've known many who do. It's just like any serious relationship, some fail and some succeed. I have heard it said that "to have a successful 24/7 relationship you first have to have 2 failed ones". This is from a local Dominant who is currently living a 24/7 relationship that is progressing nicely.

*** now back on topic, i believe to the current discussion at hand***

First and foremost I will limit my definition of BDSM to actions. If I need to explain this then simply prompt me and I will but I believe this is fairly clear.

I would define online BDSM as including the following: Cyber sex, Cam, and forum. Hopefully we all know what cyber sex is but I'll cover how I view it any way. Now this is going to get sticky and I hope I manage to communicate myself accurately and percisely. Of the three cam is the only one that I would consider to be even remotely actual BDSM. Cybersex, while fun for some people, falls more into the realm of a fetish than actual BDSM, since no actual actions have to be preformed. You might say that you have but you may actually just be fantasizing. Cam, I suppose that it would be possible to have a very meaningful session with someone who is using a cam. Since there is a cam there has to be actual actions such as: self bondage, self flagelation, orgasm denial, etc. Forums, I cannot even imagine the effort required to maintain any semblance of BDSM with the time lapse between posts. It would seem that any sexual charge would be diminished by the time it would take to get through a scene. With the time lapse there could be actual pictures or videos posted so actual BDSM might be occuring but I do not believe it would be a prerequisite.

Essentially I see Cybersex, and forums as more of a fetish than BDSM. I see it this way because I see BDSM as being more of an action.

Cam could be seen as BDSM because it does involve action.

So, again I'll restate and expand upon my original point found in my first post.

If you're only experianced with BDSM is through cybersex, forum, or cams I would say that you have no real experiance in BDSM. While Cams come closer, being able to direct your flogger to strike the place that you want, or to lead a scene, or to actually give over your control and submission to someone who is there with you in entirely diffrent. Equating experiance with cybersex, forums, or cams to having real experiance in BDSM would be similar to suggesting that someone trained in martial arts from books without ever having faced an opponent would be a more experianced fighter than toothless joe the crazy red-neck that gets in 3 fights a week for the past 10 years. In conclusion I state again that online does not count as real experiance and i strongly recomend that people interested in BDSM get real experiance. If your only interest is in a fetish then by all means continue. Fetish and BDSM are similar but not the same.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 16

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 7:02:09 PM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

I did have the opportunity to learn from the internet and I think it has significantly helped me navigate my way through real life. There is a lot of information on BDSM. As a newbie and even a teenager, it was not hard for me to decipher what was bullshit and what was useful. So when people ask, 'Can I leave my master? What should I do about this situation that has a painfully obvious answer already written all over it?' I'm kind of perplexed. This site has probably been my biggest source of information and it's *shockhorrorgasp* on the internetz! In RL, there is not as much diversity and people try too hard to be cool and there's just not as much information there. I would rather learn about mindfucks on the internet than sit through a lecture on them. If I wanted to use a single tail, I have to branch out and find someone to teach me in person. I don't think the internet gets as much credit as it deserves.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to MasterHardxdrive)

Post #: 17

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 7:15:24 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

People who speak from a depth of personal experience can put their finger on the key issue quickly, and express themselves succinctly. People with extensive booklearning and little relationship experience often write long, overintellectualized position papers when they post. I find the first group more useful when I consider how to lead my life.

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 18

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 7:22:12 PM

LunaticDesign

Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline

..

< Message edited by LunaticDesign -- 2/4/2008 7:24:11 PM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 19

RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 7:26:22 PM

Erotomania

Posts: 30
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Clearly they need more hobbies.

In reference to the specific couple I was referring to.. They do have hobbies. Most of them are just BDSM/Fetish related, haha. I have to say I agree with you, in their case. But that's just an isolated example..

quote:

I'm afraid you've missed the point. I would say seeking experiences and learning new things out of a desire to enjoy them with your partner is one thing. People overly focused on gaining the experience out of some need to develop some BDSM career as opposed to for the experience itself are people I find to be missing the point.

I agree with your point completely. The thing is, it seems like LD is being portrayed in the second role, through miscommunication of nothing else, and he's falls most definitely in the first category of your statement. Neither of us are seeking experience just so we can come across as high ranking deities of BDSM, or any other similarly rediculous comparison. We're seeking to learn and understand certain things out of a desire to experience them more fully, or in different manners, etc., amongst other reasons. Not only that, but both of us are the type of person who enjoys learning.. Especially about things they continue important parts of themselves. LD wasn't trying to act like a know-it-all or any such thing.. I'm of the opinion that this whole silly thing is a huge case of misunderstanding and miscommunication.. Nothing more or less.

quote:

How do you gain the experience without doing it?

I probablly could have worded that statement in a much better fashion, so I'll clarify what I meant. Of course you have to do something in order to gain experience. But, and I'm speaking for myself (I obviously can't speak for everyone), I do believe that when first learning something that's new to you it's generally a good idea to have someone who does know what their doing stand by and observe.. If anything to play the part of 'DM', if you will allow usage of that term for this case, and be there in case anything were to go amiss. That may be a bit old guard of a sentiment, but it seems like common sense to me. I know I wouldn't want to try something potentially dangerous, for instance needle play in combination with genital torture, without someone near by who had more experience with it and was more skilled than I.

quote:

Doesn't change the fact that most references to the "lifestyle" are a shallow idenitifier.

I'm fairly certain he was using the term 'lifestyle' in an all encompassing fashion, to generalize everything rather than point out everything seperately.. WHich would be a very long post indeed.

quote:

So have I. I know quite a few people who incorporate ritual and their dynamics into their lifestyle on a 24/7 basis. It's just their lifestyles aren't drastically different from everyone else who isn't part of the lifestyle, nor are their individuals not individualistic and not copies of some ultimate "lifestyle".

Edited to Add : I'm sorry if I come off somewhat abrasive. I have just been trying to figure out for a really long time what exactly "the" lifestyle entails and nobody has been able to give me a straight answer.

Just get tired of hearing about it over and over again....

I don't blame you in the slightest for being tired of such a thing. Neither I or LD were trying to make it seem like 'Lifestylers' were a great deal different and set apart from everyone else. He was just trying to point out difference as he saw them. He could be wrong, right, or halfway there, but it was just an opinion nonetheless. He and I both know quite well that people who consider BDSM a 'lifestyle', 24/7/365 types, bedroom kinksters, etc. all are individuals, and fit no specific trend. He was just trying, if anything, to express what he understands to be the difference between such activities.. Not neccessarily the people themselves.

I can't tell you what the lifestyle entails either.. Because I honestly don't believe it entails anything in specific, or has a set of rules and guidelines that must be followed.. Everyone has their own kink.. And everyone has their own way of doing things.. 'Lifestyle' or not, kinky or 'vanilla', whatever you like.. Everyone's different. Just because there are similarities, or possibly slight distinctions between one thing or another, doesn't necissarily change a darn thing.

Sorry if I came across as a bit bitchy, it just sort of sucks to see the progression of posts. LD is my regular play partner, so I know what he's trying to get across.. It's a shame everyone seems to be taking things differently than they are, or at face value (and no, I don't think he's completely innocent of that himself.) I jumped to conclusions about what I've read thus far myself, a few times. I just sort of wish everyone would step back, reevaluate, and wonder if this entire thing isn't rediculous..

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.. If they're blatantly wrong, or seem ignorant.. No need t get upset. Calmly explaining is a lot better than making someone seem like an ass (and this wasn't really directed at you, MadRabbit)

-Jynxx

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 20

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