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RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 7:40:44 PM   
Erotomania


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

People who speak from a depth of personal experience can put their finger on the key issue quickly, and express themselves succinctly. People with extensive booklearning and little relationship experience often write long, overintellectualized position papers when they post. I find the first group more useful when I consider how to lead my life.



And what giant book of rules was that written in?

Both LD and I write like that nearly all the time. I see nothing wrong in writing in depth, rather than making everything short and compact, while possibly sacrificing description. He was trying to make his stance clear, and leave no room for being misunderstood. Unfortunately, he was anyway. Whether short, simple, long, or involved; what's the difference, if they both make the same point and both are mistaken for something other than what they are, regardless of length and structure?

And how does length and style of writing make any difference when it comes down to being a subject of usefulness? Aristotle.. Sun Tzu.. Definitely not short, sweet, and to the point. But, nonetheless useful in some cases.

There's a difference between over intellectualizing and simply having a certain way of speaking or writing. If there should be any complaint, in my opinion it should be not of how people are over intellectualizing things, but of how they are under analyzing the meaning of things and simply taking them at face value.

Please explain to me how the two differ in usefulness, because I'm not quite sure I understand that. I'm not necessarily trying to state that your opinion is invalid, but I would appreciate an explanation of why you see it like that, if at all possible.

However, I am starting to think that the written word is becoming increasingly underrated as time passes by. I'm of the opinion that it's a sad day when everything needs to be short and sweet to be of value.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 7:49:24 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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"If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame."
-- Sun Tsu

"It is simplicity that makes the uneducated more effective than the educated when addressing popular audiences."
-- Aristotle



(in reply to Erotomania)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 8:02:25 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erotomania


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

People who speak from a depth of personal experience can put their finger on the key issue quickly, and express themselves succinctly. People with extensive booklearning and little relationship experience often write long, overintellectualized position papers when they post. I find the first group more useful when I consider how to lead my life.



And what giant book of rules was that written in?

Both LD and I write like that nearly all the time. I see nothing wrong in writing in depth, rather than making everything short and compact, while possibly sacrificing description. He was trying to make his stance clear, and leave no room for being misunderstood. Unfortunately, he was anyway. Whether short, simple, long, or involved; what's the difference, if they both make the same point and both are mistaken for something other than what they are, regardless of length and structure?

And how does length and style of writing make any difference when it comes down to being a subject of usefulness? Aristotle.. Sun Tzu.. Definitely not short, sweet, and to the point. But, nonetheless useful in some cases.

There's a difference between over intellectualizing and simply having a certain way of speaking or writing. If there should be any complaint, in my opinion it should be not of how people are over intellectualizing things, but of how they are under analyzing the meaning of things and simply taking them at face value.

Please explain to me how the two differ in usefulness, because I'm not quite sure I understand that. I'm not necessarily trying to state that your opinion is invalid, but I would appreciate an explanation of why you see it like that, if at all possible.

However, I am starting to think that the written word is becoming increasingly underrated as time passes by. I'm of the opinion that it's a sad day when everything needs to be short and sweet to be of value.



You both actually seem to be posters that are open to discussion and have things to share.  Welcome to the forums.  There are no real shared views except to each their own, which you will find does get reaction.  As a group we rarely come to a consensus on most things, except don't judge others kink (with rare exceptions).

I will second what RedMagic said a bit in that there have been many threads about really long posts and many say they don't read them.  Change it or don't, it's certainly up to you, just a thought.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Erotomania)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 8:13:33 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Dear MasterHardxdrive, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I do agree with the original post, to which getting experience requires actually 'doing it.'
 
I also will say, that it is my personal opinion that this 'just do it' in gaining experience in the lifestyle per se; is easier said then done.  I say this, as there are areas within the USA and other countries and or territories which do not have a 'rich' base to which the 'life style/life choice' is more commonly found in more populated areas.  In summary, the resources to be exposed to a 'quality' experience of what the 'lifestyle' and or 'BDSM' and or Master/slave and or Dominant/
submissive; will have a very direct affect on those individuals to whom wish to experience it.
 
That said, even where there might be quantity of individuals, to which may claim to live the lifestyle, M/s, D/s and or BDSM; there still is a matter of quality and or variety to choose from and or learn from.  And, those new and or want-to-be have difficulties in being accepted and or offered help in their learning/discovering process.
 
There are many other possible reasons to which individuals will read such a post and really agreeing to it fully however, real life and or circumstances give huge challenges as to make this beyond a sincere desire and or wish, as to actually find what might define what the 'lifestyle' and or 'life's choice' is for them and means to them.  I personally wish these good individuals success in such a desire, as to 'get/gain experience in the lifestyle.'  I just feel sad for those to whom have it harder to get to the experience and all it has to offer, due to many things that may cause them a longer struggle to achieve what some may reach more easily that goal.
 
Sadly, not all groups and or individuals can afford speakers, presentations, demonstrations and or well established teachers, trainers and or mentors; as well as to afford going to conventions and gatherings.

 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 

(in reply to MasterHardxdrive)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 8:20:00 PM   
Erotomania


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

"If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame."
-- Sun Tsu

"It is simplicity that makes the uneducated more effective than the educated when addressing popular audiences."
-- Aristotle






Good choice of quotes for your purpose..

In response to the Sun Tzu quote: Clear and distinct are not necessarily synonymous with short. And I'm of the opinion that any misunderstandings regarding the posts in this thread are the fault of no one person in particular. Misunderstandings happen. Such is life.

In response to the Aristotle quote: Simplicity is a great thing.. It has it's purposes, just as being descriptive and elaborate have theirs. The choice of a person to write or speak in a certain way doesn't mean they are sacrificing usefulness in any sense. The fact that LD and I write elaborately doesn't make our opinions and statements any less effective in the long run. It isn't our fault that our way of speaking isn't shared by others.

If your way of doing things is based on simplicity, that's fine. But the implication that anything not done with simplicity is less useful is rediculous. If anyone needed a more clear and concise description of either of our reasoning they could have politely said as much, and one would have been provided. The miscommunication could have been fixed had people spoken up about a lack of clarity, rather than jumping on things that they misunderstood.

Simple as that.

Now, if you insist on simplicity being a better method.. How about this?

I'll write the way I like to write, as will you and everyone else. What's the point of harping on that, and going even more off topic, instead of clearing up misunderstandings and continuing with the original purpose of the thread?

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 8:27:44 PM   
Erotomania


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

You both actually seem to be posters that are open to discussion and have things to share.  Welcome to the forums.  There are no real shared views except to each their own, which you will find does get reaction.  As a group we rarely come to a consensus on most things, except don't judge others kink (with rare exceptions).

I will second what RedMagic said a bit in that there have been many threads about really long posts and many say they don't read them.  Change it or don't, it's certainly up to you, just a thought.


Thank you for the welcome. ;) And I appreciate the advice. The way I type is just a reflection of how I actually write and typically speak, so it's a hard habit to break when trying to be as concise as possible in forums.. Along with that fact that I'm not used to spending much times in forums. I just wish someone would have politely requested short posts beforehand, rather than getting (in my opinion) a bit touchy about it.

I'll try to keep my posts shorter in the future.. I can't promise it'll be like that everytime, as it'll be difficult to change my way of writing for such a specific purpose, but I'll do my best.

If anyone in the future needs me to be a bit less long winded, please just ask me to break it down a bit better rather than essentially get on my butt about it, and then use my explainations for things against me. I'd appreciate that. =P

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 8:30:15 PM   
RedMagic1


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Joined: 5/10/2007
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My limited life experience has taught me it is less important to pontificate than it is to wield power.

(in reply to Erotomania)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 8:38:41 PM   
imber


Posts: 51
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
i say like the OP said: "Just Do It!"

_____________________________

That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly.

(in reply to Erotomania)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 8:40:01 PM   
Erotomania


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

My limited life experience has taught me it is less important to pontificate than it is to wield power.



What's the point of wielding power if you don't have the intelligence to utilize it properly and to good ends?

Edited to add:
As for pontificating - I hope you aren't intending to imply that my way of typing is a means to act patronizing or to come off as the equivalent of a know-it-all, because that couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm quite sorry if they way I was taught to write is offensive to you, as it must be, considering your apparent interest in what seems to be underhandedly berating it.

Now.. I'm hoping we can get off this subject soon, since it seems to have no purpose other than that of derailing this thread's original purpose even more.


< Message edited by Erotomania -- 2/4/2008 8:45:42 PM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 8:51:04 PM   
Erotomania


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: imber

i say like the OP said: "Just Do It!"



Well said! ^_^;

Now that.. Is short and sweet at it's finest. =P

(in reply to imber)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 9:58:27 PM   
imber


Posts: 51
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
I mean come on, How are you going to know what it is like? *Just Do It* is my motto now!!   :)

_____________________________

That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly.

(in reply to Erotomania)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 10:14:16 PM   
LunaticDesign


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
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Personally I've found the people with the least to say about a subject often have the least knowledge of said subject.

(in reply to imber)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/4/2008 11:11:16 PM   
LadyLolly


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline
Any valid source of information is a good thing regardless of what medium it comes from..  
With that said there is no substitute for experience but experience itself.
Can't embrace the "just do it" approach.  People that play with things they don't understand do damage.  It's a good thing not to break our toys or to cause our dear ones to suffer harm.  There's a reason most gizmos come with directions, even diagrams. Education helps keep us safe from our own ignorance.  Even simple bondage can cause permanent nerve damage.  Can't count the number of times some one that has just "done it" has been doing what ever in such a way that they could seriously injure themselves or others and if it hadn't happened yet - its been sheer luck.  

The only reservation of online expertise is that it can be difficult to verify the actual level of the "experts" expertise and that the "lesson" is limited to the written word or video. Interactive teaching is in my opinion by far the best way to learn - wether it be a community sponsered demonstration or privately with an experienced AND knowledgable mentor.    

(in reply to MasterHardxdrive)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/5/2008 2:15:13 AM   
imber


Posts: 51
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
Trust me i am knowledgeable on the subject! I do not say much, but when i do, It is short and to the point!

_____________________________

That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly.

(in reply to LunaticDesign)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/5/2008 3:16:05 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

"If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame."
-- Sun Tsu

"It is simplicity that makes the uneducated more effective than the educated when addressing popular audiences."
-- Aristotle





quotes don't solve problems.....they are sometimes nice..but actually don't do a thing for many people..hence loose their effect.
To be clear in a discussion or in communication in general it often more wise to say what you mean...then to quote.


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 2/5/2008 3:33:17 AM >


_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/5/2008 3:16:45 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
I'm glad we got that sorted!
It's always healthy to see people aren't making personal attacks and just working with what is written.  FWIW I found your posts well written and is all cool, that's just my opinion though - but it doesn't me discussing or putting across another pov.
 
It's cool to 'meet' you and hope you find the forums interesting.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LunaticDesign)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/5/2008 4:45:56 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline
Ive read books and continue to do so when I find a book I think will be worth reading, Ive met people in the lifestyle and learn from them. I'm working on making real life connections in order to find one to "just do it" with as I think until I find someone who knows more than Me, I wont know how to do something properly, let alone what Im doing wrong and how to correct it.

(in reply to MasterHardxdrive)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/5/2008 4:54:00 AM   
ladyonaleash


Posts: 1
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
Hi. I don't suppose anyone here will be interested in my opinion as i am not someone who visits these boards very often. I do sometimes pop in when i just fancy a read.
But being quite new to D / s this one struck a nerve. It isn't actually that easy meeting people when your new to the scene. Clubs and munches are very daunting places, and sites like collar me are inhabited mainly by Prostitutes and couples who's sex life is off the boil, and the husband has persuaded the wife another woman in bed with them will do the trick. It always amuses  me how few ads there are on here by 50 year old couples looking for 19 year old bi males.

The fact is that as i am finding out the so called  D/s world is populated by desperate middle aged men, with failing marriages who are trying to persuade there wife that a couple of pairs of handcuffs, a cane and  her sleeping with another woman is the answer to all there problems. Then there are the men who call themselves Dom's, who are actually just sad lonely men who can't get a girlfriend in the real world, so they think D/s is the answer, . Then we move from the personal columns to the boards. Which do kind of remind me of heaven. You people in here i imagine sitting on clouds dispensing wisdom in your pompous, "Oh we have the perfect relationship, we live the life 'don't you no'  yes we are perfect.
Then there are people like me. Genuinely interested  in D/s , with no chance of finding any concrete information because we are surrounded by Prostitutes and scammers selling fake knickers they bought at the local flea market, to a load of sad lonely desperate men. People with failing marriages who hope a little young blood might spice things up, and a load of what sound like pompous ex hippies sitting around on bean bags trying to convince themselves and anyone else who will listen that they have the perfect life.
The fact is everyone here has an agenda. Its not a happy land full of friendly people who are willing to chat, be friends and perhaps even meet with newbies. Well not unless their " FEMALE " drop dead gorgeous,  dead fit and horny, under twenty five, bi sexual of course, oh and like housework. . If your middle aged,male or femal  fat, bald, unattractive, or don't have a chance. ITS ABOUT SEX. 

< Message edited by ladyonaleash -- 2/5/2008 5:16:09 AM >

(in reply to MasterHardxdrive)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/5/2008 9:17:15 AM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
I've done the playing bit.
I'm now ready for the real thing.
It's the D in BDSM that makes it real for me.
Lots of people strive for 24/7 TPE relationships without consent.
So they fight over who has the control and the strongest wins or they split up.
However if a sub/slave agrees TPE and also agrees to be disciplined for any infringement of that then you have as far as I'm concerned a 24/7 BDSM relationship. You really do not have to live together. You just need trust, honesty and good communication.
If a slave needs too much training I am not going to take him on even for a trial period.
So yes just find the right person, get the relationship right and then enjoy yourselves.


(in reply to ladyonaleash)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Getting experince in the lifestyle - 2/5/2008 12:07:44 PM   
greyangelus


Posts: 192
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyonaleash

Hi. I don't suppose anyone here will be interested in my opinion as i am not someone who visits these boards very often. I do sometimes pop in when i just fancy a read.
But being quite new to D / s this one struck a nerve. It isn't actually that easy meeting people when your new to the scene. Clubs and munches are very daunting places, and sites like collar me are inhabited mainly by Prostitutes and couples who's sex life is off the boil, and the husband has persuaded the wife another woman in bed with them will do the trick. It always amuses  me how few ads there are on here by 50 year old couples looking for 19 year old bi males.

The fact is that as i am finding out the so called  D/s world is populated by desperate middle aged men, with failing marriages who are trying to persuade there wife that a couple of pairs of handcuffs, a cane and  her sleeping with another woman is the answer to all there problems. Then there are the men who call themselves Dom's, who are actually just sad lonely men who can't get a girlfriend in the real world, so they think D/s is the answer, . Then we move from the personal columns to the boards. Which do kind of remind me of heaven. You people in here i imagine sitting on clouds dispensing wisdom in your pompous, "Oh we have the perfect relationship, we live the life 'don't you no'  yes we are perfect.
Then there are people like me. Genuinely interested  in D/s , with no chance of finding any concrete information because we are surrounded by Prostitutes and scammers selling fake knickers they bought at the local flea market, to a load of sad lonely desperate men. People with failing marriages who hope a little young blood might spice things up, and a load of what sound like pompous ex hippies sitting around on bean bags trying to convince themselves and anyone else who will listen that they have the perfect life.
The fact is everyone here has an agenda. Its not a happy land full of friendly people who are willing to chat, be friends and perhaps even meet with newbies. Well not unless their " FEMALE " drop dead gorgeous,  dead fit and horny, under twenty five, bi sexual of course, oh and like housework. . If your middle aged,male or femal  fat, bald, unattractive, or don't have a chance. ITS ABOUT SEX. 


Isn't the crushing of illusions heart-breaking?  It gets better with time, I promise .

Somewhat more seriously, yes people on here are interested in your opinion, provided its at least semi-well thought out and reasonably polite.  Your generalizeds rants however, are not.

If you find profiles that very ungeniune, false, scammers, no ones forcing you to talk to them.  Clubs and munches can be very intimidating to the unitiated, I agree.

Your post seems to be a textbook case of disillusioned (and kind of angry to boot).  I've been there, done that, got my T-Shirt, and posted a few rants exactly like this one myself in the past.

The CM forums, IMO, the best one I've found so far.  Very few gawkers and liers, they tend not to last even if they manage to find thier way here in the first place.

(in reply to ladyonaleash)
Profile   Post #: 40
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