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Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/15/2008 11:46:50 PM

cyberdude611

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They think the diebold macines in New Hampshire fixed the election.
And they bash the Democrats for stripping Michigan of its delegates and disenfranchizing voters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAQ1B-VUdYk&eurl=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/01/russia_tv_takes_kucinich_serio.html

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/15/2008 11:49:20 PM

BiteGirl

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But isn't it fixed? I was positive that it was possiable to have a computer with errors and viruses, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.

The system itself is reather silly, you must admit, being on a computer is a problem, not being able to contest a vote, and say, hey, that's wrong, is a problem, and having candidates with NEGATIVE votes is a problem.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 12:10:26 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

They think the diebold macines in New Hampshire fixed the election.
And they bash the Democrats for stripping Michigan of its delegates and disenfranchizing voters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAQ1B-VUdYk&eurl=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/01/russia_tv_takes_kucinich_serio.html

How can anyone blame and/or disagree with the Russians in light of a system whose credibility has been compromised by a ''privatized'' vote-counting apparatus?

The regular group of Fox news parrots here can craft all credibility arguments they want with regard to ''privatization'', but they've effectively pushed themselves off the plank when they apply it to our election /voting system.

Wasn’t it Stalin who said ''"It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes."

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 12:16:00 AM

Termyn8or

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The AFP has been on to this for quite some time.

In fact, there have been some out of the mainstream reports that Bush lost by 900,000 votes.

In fact a court made him President.

T

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 12:23:06 AM

CuriousLord

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We could have a system that'd give up voter confidentiality, but kill fraud. The system could post the name of every American who voted on a public website with who they voted for. Independent varification could be possible by anyone who wrote a computer program to count the votes (which would be something a sophomore programmer could do pretty easily), so there would be a TON of oversight.. and anyone could just look up their name to see if their vote had been misrepresented. Random samplings could check to see that the great majority of voters are legitimate. (If you randomly pick 1,000 names from every county and confirm they're actual people who voted, then it's unlikely there's much voting fraud.)

Of course, then you'd have to deal with the consquences of people being able to see how others voted.. perhaps a combination of cliques voting together even more so, but perhaps partisanship would also chill out a bit.. But, this is the downside.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 12:34:52 AM

cyberdude611

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I've said before that we should just get rid of the Diebold machines. Its just too much chance for error even if it isnt intentional. I think the best way to do it is with optical scanning where you get a ballot, you bubble in a circle next to the candidate. These are fast for a computer to count, accurate (unless the voter screwed up), and can be handcounted easily if needed without people trying to figure out dimpled or pregnant chads.

As for the primaries, the whole thing is a joke. It's an ancient and obsolete system that needs to be reformed.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 12:40:10 AM

beeble

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quote:

CuriousLord wrote: We could have a system that'd give up voter confidentiality, but kill fraud. The system could post the name of every American who voted on a public website with who they voted for.

Actually, that doesn't kill fraud at all. It opens up a whole avenue of voter intimidation: vote for party X or I'll send the boys round. This has been a problem (perhaps not with suck explicit threats) with the massive increase in the use of postal voting as a means to increase turnout in British elections -- see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4410743.stm

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 12:50:46 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

I've said before that we should just get rid of the Diebold machines.

We definitely agree here. And I'm not opposed to the optical scanners as you've mentioned. I've actually seen them work and been part of an mock auditing team that hand verifies their accuracy.

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 12:51:28 AM

CuriousLord

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Bah... that's a good point.

We could harshly criminalize such acts, though I suppose enforcement would be logistically unfeasable..

You know, the more I grow up, the more I realize power's necessary.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 6:34:15 AM

SugarMyChurro

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Any program used on a voting machine should be open source.

This whole thing is absurd. Everyone is trying to make it harder than it is because that way they can keep stealing elections. Fucking incredible!

I keep forgetting what it is exactly that americans are so proud of...!

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 6:43:54 AM

Leonardo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

The AFP has been on to this for quite some time.

In fact, there have been some out of the mainstream reports that Bush lost by 900,000 votes.

In fact a court made him President.

T

Actually, his brother promised him he would get FL, and it certainly appears his brother kept his promise.

The problem with the computerized electronic voting machines is that a paper trail is not left. And in so doing, accountability disappears since if someone were to sometime dig and find votes miscounted somehow, the finger can be easily and immediately pointed toward the computer and it can be claimed as a computer error....
but computers only err due to the short circuit that may exist between the keyboard and the seat.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 6:51:47 AM

Real0ne

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The only way to "insure" our votes is with a receipted numbered paper ballot.

Punch cards where 2 pieces of paper get punched the reciept on the bottom so if there are chads its on the one you take home, numbered for a recount.

locked mechanical counters with simple binary parity checking and nothing more.

Hence no coding capabilities, complete recountability and accountability.

_____________________________

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 1:32:30 PM

Stephann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Bah... that's a good point.

We could harshly criminalize such acts, though I suppose enforcement would be logistically unfeasable..

You know, the more I grow up, the more I realize power's necessary.

To boot, it would mean that there's a record of your voting tactics over time. To remove confidentiality from the vote, is to remove the value of the vote entirely.

I agree, a system should be put in place that requires manual (and physical) voting, mechanically counted, and human audited each and every time.

Stephan

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 1:53:24 PM

pahunkboy

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Hillary is going to win cos Wall street likes her.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 1:58:03 PM

pahunkboy

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The electronic voting machines are easy for the typical Joe to deal with.

Vote absentee.
With this mode you get a paper ballet- it must be postmarked by the cut off date.

The entire voter base does this and guess what? We just switched to paper voting.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 2:04:54 PM

Moloch

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Wait the Russian/KGB oligarchy is pointing fingers and complaining about voter fraud?
Russians need to STFU since they dont even get real elections.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 2:12:49 PM

PanthersMom

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they think this is something new? i thought most elections were fixed for at least the last 50 years or so. there is always some back room deal and the old boys network around to keep the power where it "belongs"

PM

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 4:46:16 PM

bipolarber

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It certainly is possible that the computers could be wrong... especially since ALL of the companies which build them and program them are owned and operated by Republicans.

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 5:14:15 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

They think the diebold macines in New Hampshire fixed the election.
And they bash the Democrats for stripping Michigan of its delegates and disenfranchizing voters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAQ1B-VUdYk&eurl=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/01/russia_tv_takes_kucinich_serio.html

I'm sorry....I seem to recall something back in 2000...when a guy named Gore won the election....but we still ended up with some dumb fuck from Texas.

Sure...it's all legit.

(Absolutely).

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RE: Russian media thinks US election is fixed - 1/16/2008 5:15:56 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

The electronic voting machines are easy for the typical Joe to deal with.

Vote absentee.
With this mode you get a paper ballet- it must be postmarked by the cut off date.

The entire voter base does this and guess what? We just switched to paper voting.

There ya go! Excellent idea! We have paper ballotrs here but anywhere thre is a diebold or any other electronic voting machine there is fraud or you can expect fraud! good idea for the peeps in those areas.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/16/2008 5:18:18 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to pahunkboy)

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