RE: Openness (Full Version)

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fluffyswitch -> RE: Openness (1/11/2008 6:54:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

By being open to your mother and not your father, you are putting a wedge in their relationship. Either she is open to her partner, or she has to lie to him. And you did this why?

being in that position, i came out only to my mom because she may not like it but wouldn't necessarily disown me. my father on the other hand, has some very strong views on the other queers/kinks/kinky queers like me in my family and since i started questioning/came out in college i would have preferred not to be disowned when i still needed parental support. and my mom actually told me not to tell my father because my father also has a huge mouth and everyone in my family would find out including the people controlling my tuition money.

there are reasons for doing this, and not to flame, but unless you've actually had to deal with it, it's not your place to judge. again not trying to flame, but it's a lot more complicated than it may seem.




slavesunshine -> RE: Openness (1/11/2008 6:59:40 AM)

Master and I are very open about our relationship. It is who we are and how we live. When we are out in public I call him Sir and even call him Master. I don't pay much attention to reactions of others. My friends know that I am a slave and how we live.
But, then again its no ones business how you live behind closed doors. We have respect for others and our families so we don't flaunt our lifestyle in front of them. But, they know what kind a relationship we have and they respect us.




OmegaG -> RE: Openness (1/11/2008 7:02:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryugen

Ok so, I have been thinking about the varying openness I'm seeing in different posts on CM. Of course, this lead me to questions and curiosities, and so here I am posting this on the forums. I am curious as to how open you all are in public and to those you consider friends and family about your D/s M/s dynamic, however, don't go about quick replying just yet.

I admit the prospect of walking my pet (read: human pet) in public is exhilerating and I am really looking forward to the day when I take her down the streets of the CBD in my town on a leash. I certainly plan on doing so when I finally have my pet with me in person, amoung other things I intend to do in public. So far as my friends and family go; I've told my mother, and explained to her what an M/s relationship means to me and my pet, etc. She thinks there are many dangerous people in the lifestyle, and that I could achieve similar goals in a vanilla relationship. My father on the other hand has not been informed and I know he has very strong views on such things and it is likely to not end well between us. So, I instead plan on going to christmas dinner at his place actually with my pet instead. That way he'd have to say it in front of her as well and I admit I'd actually gain happiness from his gradual realisation. It might take a while for the entire Master/pet thing to settle in on him though and for him to actually realise I wasn't pulling a practical joke and actually ment it. So far as my friends go, I haven't formally gone about telling everyone I know in person, a few do know though. I haven't explained it in depth, and if they're curious they'll ask, but I doubt any will. If they ask I tell, but I haven't gone about shouting it from the rooftops (yet).

Now, me living in New Zealand means there are a lot of open minded people around and many from different cultures who live in harmony with each other and very minimal friction. This also means I feel safe walking down the street with my pet on a leash in front of so many people in the center of town along the busiest shopping street in the city. I realise not everyone is afforded such openmindedness where they live, and that some people are shy about it and that there are many reasons behind what they choose to do. However, that wont sate my curiosity.

So, my questions for you all are; Are you open about your lifestyle with your family (including children if you have any, although that's a rather different matter I realise)? Are you open to your workmates? Are you open to your friends, and is there a certain required closeness or trust required with people you deem as friends before you tell them?

Also, if you could give me some guage or conditions or explaination for your answers that would be much appreciated. These questions are being asked out of curiosity more than anything else, please keep that in mind.



First, I see a fine line between being natural and open about yourself (all aspects) and "coming-our" or foisting your sexual preferences onto others.  I feel the same be it a BDSM preference, homosexuality or a vanilla person that just likes to give way TMI all the time.

For me there are ways of remaining true to yourself without making others become a non-consentual part of your relationship.  There are people I work with who's sensibilities would be affected if they knew that anyone they knew had relationships other then husband and wife missionary style for procreation purposes only sex.  Is it my job to change their paradigm?  No, and it's probably a futile cause anyway. 

I have a problem with exhibiting my relationship in a way that would make anyone uncomfortable, to me that's just common curtesy.  I ask that people not try to sell me on their religion/political cause/latest self help book and I will return the favor by not trying to sell them on my polotics/apatheism/lifestyle preferences.  It's a two way street.





RoughFN -> RE: Openness (1/11/2008 7:24:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

First, I see a fine line between being natural and open about yourself (all aspects) and "coming-our" or foisting your sexual preferences onto others.  I feel the same be it a BDSM preference, homosexuality or a vanilla person that just likes to give way TMI all the time.



This is basically the camp I fall into. I've only told one or two people the intimate details of my life. And as I'd mentioned in another thread, it was the friend who had previously fessed up to being whipped at a strip club, so I figured he'd be open to it. He focused on some image of me wearing a little mask while I did it. Weirdo.

I've told a few more people that I have a girlfriend but haven't gotten into details of it. A few family members know I have the girlfriend, but not the fact that I actually own her. Saying "girlfriend" is just a lot simpler and if people really want lots of information and grill me with questions, I'm happy to provide it. But I do warn them in advance that I might end up telling them more than they really want to hear. Nobody's taken me up on it.




carlie310 -> RE: Openness (1/11/2008 9:20:14 AM)

Also, it's not clear from the OP if her parents are still married.  Judging from the Christmas scenario (and is anyone else confused about that?  Is my calendar completely wrong, and it's still December?), I'd say there are issues between Dad & child, probably.  But there are lots of ways in which one parent knowing something about an adult child that the other doesn't is fine, without creating a wedge.  Not that it couldn't happen, but it's not A Law.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Openness (1/11/2008 9:31:59 AM)

I would like to remind you that "coming out" is a term from the gay and lesbian community who have a lot of experience with this issue.... Here is a "how to come out" from PFLAG - Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays....

http://www.pflag.org/Holidays_-_GLBT.holiday_glbt.0.html

While it is specifically for that community, the advice is transferrable about kink.  Your realization and freedom in coming out may be devastation and distress for those around you.  You have been thining about this for some time... For them, it just might be "oh we knew that, pass the potatoes" or it very well could be a bomb drop.




ownedandcollared -> RE: Openness (1/11/2008 9:39:16 AM)

My Master tells people, and then doesnt mention that he told them, and i get all sorts of weird, confusing looks. i have only told a few close friends, and i prefer it that way. i don't like people to know.




meticulousgirl -> RE: Openness (1/11/2008 10:16:58 AM)

i'm not open about it at all....it's just one of those things that could make or break a job so to speak...

~meticulous~




KindLadyGrey -> RE: Openness (1/12/2008 8:33:38 AM)

Almost everyone in my life knows. My parents have requested I refrain from sharing details, my inlaws openly disapprove, my coworkers think I'm strange, my boss has an inkling, my friends think it's great, and my husband knows all about everything I do.

There are certain people who don't know, but any of them could easily find out with a bit of google-fu.

I think I am rare in this regard, and people tell me all the time how "dangerous" my choice to be totally open is. If I had a dollar for every time someone suggested that I might want to be more discreet I would not need a job.

There are definite consequences that I must accept. I am a teacher by profession, but I will never work for a normal K-12 school. I will never be elected to political office (and that one bothers me, because I have always wanted to run). There are many many jobs that I will never get, or once gotten, I will never keep. The general social consequences of living any kind of alternative are well known to everyone on these boards I am sure, and I weather them openly every day.

People talk to me about my indiscretions like I am not aware of these consequences, like I am simply naive. It baffles people that I could willingly CHOOSE to face such daunting consequences for what they perceive as something not that important to life in general.

But I hate living a pretense. In the end, even though I must live with certain social consequences, I would rather be true to myself in all ways. I have just as much right to be who I am as anyone else in this country. If the sheeple want to pretend they are sexless androids as their default social behavior, they can go right ahead.




sexyred1 -> RE: Openness (1/12/2008 8:41:38 AM)

Perhaps it is me, but I will never understand this need to "come out" to people about your sexual preferences. And before you jump on the "oh it's not just about sex in D/s" I don't really care. I do not think it is necessary or imperative to reveal the private things that one does with a partner to friends, family, co-workers. Why? I really do not want to know how my parents or my brothers have sex or how my best friend conducts her private life with her husband or my boss does with his wife.

Does it not occur to anyone that no matter how much your family or friends love you they might not need this little snippet of information? Why hurt or upset anyone? I am best friends with my mother and I tell her most everything, but she really does not need to know I am submissive or on collarme or anything else in that realm. Why would this information help her life or her relationship with me?

What part of keeping things private is not appealing? I don't mean to be ashamed of anything, far from it. But I have never found the need, not once in all the time I have been alive to share private details of what I do with anyone other than a partner or someone I need to inform of my practices.

Oh, and I fail to see how one is living a life of pretense simply because they choose to keep an air of privacy around important things, like their sexual preference. Please, give me a break. I find it more pretentious to be shoving your preferences in people's faces who have not asked.




sirguym -> RE: Openness (1/12/2008 9:11:25 AM)

I came out to my 90 year old father recently, but I picked my moment; a time we were alone, by asking him first if he wanted to hear what I really got up to, even though it might not be to his taste. It was a time when I could leave if he took it badly, when if he did take it badly he'd have the time to calm down and think it over before doing anything rash. When my brother who knows, and to an extent understands, though doesn't really approve, would be the first person he'd turn to ..

In the event he just said, 'Son, I've never heard of that before, it's not my cup of tea, but it doesn't seem as though anybody is being exploited, ripped off or hurt than is normal in this world, so if that's what you want to do, then do it by all means."

When later my malicious elder sister brought it up with him, his response was to tell her to go forth and multiply. (Though my mum says that those were not his precise words!)

Don't corner anyone, ask if they want to know first, ensure they've an escape route, time to absorb the implications without having to respond or suppress their own feelings. Springing it on them without a warm-up is like wading into a new bottom with a single-tail bullwhip first off. Do the moves first, the negotiation, the warm-up, gauge the reactions, build it up; and be ready to break off and come back another day if necessary.

As for taking your pet out on a leash, keep it light. I have taken a pony-boy and a TV pony out for a run 2 mile, with me driving the gelding and his Domme driving the colt, down the towpath beside Grand Union Canal in central London, in full daylight. But we kept it light, everybody was fully clothed in bright summery clothes, no heavy whipping. a cheery greeting or wave to anybody we saw and it went down really well with everyone we saw, (actually only about a dozen in all). Had we done it in heavy leather, rubber, with cracking single tails it could have been quite unpleasant, and led to real problems.





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Openness (1/12/2008 10:02:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Does it not occur to anyone that no matter how much your family or friends love you they might not need this little snippet of information? Why hurt or upset anyone? I am best friends with my mother and I tell her most everything, but she really does not need to know I am submissive or on collarme or anything else in that realm. Why would this information help her life or her relationship with me?

Well remember that for many people, Ds has nothing to do with how people have sex, but how they run their lives.

Now, in general I agree that there's no real need to literally explain how your life works.  Ds and Ms looks and operates like a vanilla relationship about 90% of the time, unless you know what to look for.

But some families are really pushy and overbearing and will make the persons life miserable with questions and admonishments unless the truth comes out to a certain extent.  Even if the truth is "This is how I like it, so back off."

Now, when it comes to something like polyamory, for me that is important to be out about to my family simply "in case of emergency."  When I get into something serious, they need to know who to be able to contact and my partners need to have some bond with my family so they can contact them in case something goes wrong. 

As well, since I AM in a serious relationship with those people, it's also important to share that with my family because my family is such a high priority. 

But there is a difference in obviousness when one is poly vs when one is Ds.

And I'll simply add that sharing that you are in an authority dynamic is only considered shoving your life down someone's throat by those who consider different forms of relationships to be bad or wrong.  I get far more throat shoving from women getting engaged over the holidays and needing to blab about it constantly than I think I ever could about people coming out about being in an authority dynamic.




Justme696 -> RE: Openness (1/12/2008 10:26:14 AM)

I try to tell my best friend for ages who I am. I don't dare too, but I am sure it is not needed to be afraid. My behaviour is so obvious, so are my interests.
To those who I opened up,  I feel bonded better though, it is like if a barrier is gone.

Lol I told some one close to me once I like bdsm and that I am a MAster. She just looked at me and said ok. So telling didn't work either, because it is weird afther all the stress I had to tell it, she didn't get it.  lol

*edit*
I feel bad about not beeing able to say it. Mostly for the job. But is frustrating to hide by times. Sometimes i just want to scream it.




SubmissiveAK -> RE: Openness (1/12/2008 11:03:38 AM)

Hello A/all,

Speaking purely for myself, it is not something I hide. It is not something I announce either. I do not mind being out as a kinky person, but I am aware and do respect the multitude of people I know who do not wish to be outted. I am not going to do anything to out someone without checking with them beforehand. I am even careful talking in a crowded restaraunt lest I make them uncomfortable, usually waiting for them to gauge how openly we discuss such matters.

Now there's something else I wanted to address. A good Master once told me, we do not do anything to expose the public to our lifestyle, as they have not consented to being involved. And yes, I believe to view is to be involved. Now I would love to go shopping wearing a posture collar, high heels and leashed to my Mistress. It would be erotically kinky, almost humiliating and I would be proud to show off my devotion to my Owner. Still, I would hate to be the parent to explain to thier 7 year old kiddo what they just saw. For a kink event, an adult club... the people consent just by being there. The grociery store... not so much. Still as a slave I would do as ordered, but I would have a serious ethical problem walking in public with a severe showing of my lifestyle.

Things like opening doors, using Ma'am or Sir... thats what one normally does for others isn't it?

~submissiveAK~




Amaros -> RE: Openness (1/13/2008 10:07:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KindLadyGrey

Almost everyone in my life knows. My parents have requested I refrain from sharing details, my inlaws openly disapprove, my coworkers think I'm strange, my boss has an inkling, my friends think it's great, and my husband knows all about everything I do.

There are certain people who don't know, but any of them could easily find out with a bit of google-fu.

I think I am rare in this regard, and people tell me all the time how "dangerous" my choice to be totally open is. If I had a dollar for every time someone suggested that I might want to be more discreet I would not need a job.

There are definite consequences that I must accept. I am a teacher by profession, but I will never work for a normal K-12 school. I will never be elected to political office (and that one bothers me, because I have always wanted to run). There are many many jobs that I will never get, or once gotten, I will never keep. The general social consequences of living any kind of alternative are well known to everyone on these boards I am sure, and I weather them openly every day.

People talk to me about my indiscretions like I am not aware of these consequences, like I am simply naive. It baffles people that I could willingly CHOOSE to face such daunting consequences for what they perceive as something not that important to life in general.

But I hate living a pretense. In the end, even though I must live with certain social consequences, I would rather be true to myself in all ways. I have just as much right to be who I am as anyone else in this country. If the sheeple want to pretend they are sexless androids as their default social behavior, they can go right ahead.
I cannot say how it is elsewhere, but the politics of sex have gotten complicated in America - there is something of a conservative backlash going on right now, and sexual politics are at the fore: the more corporate religion get on board with a foreign policy based on brute force rather than diplomacy, the more they need some distraction where they can take the moral "high ground", thus much anti-gay noise, and general public disaproval of anyone suspected of being remotely interesting or independent.

Religion, at it's core, is largely sexual politics: they claim to be concerned about your soul, but when it comes to discuassion, it's all about you hole - erotophobia, fear of female sexuality, masculine preogotive, etc., expressed as magical thinking or half baked amateur psychology/sociology. There are a lot of primal fears involved and moral horror is the stick they use to keep people in line: alternative sexuality threatens them politically, they hate us because we're free. Whereas the evidence keep mounting that more open expressions of sexuality are healthy, and most of the things conservatives bitch about are at least as often if not more often the result of repression rather than expression - the most sexually repressed countries in , it tthe world are also typically the most violent, it's all the people who aren't fucking causing the problems.

I've been getting this erotophobic vibe a lot more lately, circling the wagons maybe, given that conservatives have pretty much screwed the pooch in every other area, and now, with the economy getting sluggish, they're a bit frantic to keep exerting and maintaining control, and sex remains a bit of a hot button, knee jerk issue.

This complicates the politics of sexual de-politicization which has been for less of an issue for the last 40 years - hopefully, it will recede once more when and if we get things back on an even keel, but there has been considerable infiltration by Dominionists/Reconstructionists, who have very explicit views on these things, which has been reflected and reinforced by the administration, in both rhetoric, and in the operation of the justice department among other things - there is even a good bit of mounting evidence that there might be a putch in the offing, the constitution being an egregious inconvenience to certain political ambitions.

Anyway, I sympathize with your dillema concerning your political ambitions Lady Grey, we have a tradition of supressing any alternative viewpoints when it comes to sexuality, anal retentiveness in sexual behavior is apparently all some people have to brag about, and don't hesitate to legislate about that which they keep themselves deliberately ignorant for political gain - I for one wouldn't mind seeing that particular atavism die natural death, you'd have my vote.

Otherwise, in terms of consensus, it would be nice if people were able to act like adults when it comes to expression of sexuality, but again, there is a lot of repressed guilt and anxiety about sexual behavior, not to mention sheer boredom - when you live your life in an emotional/sexual straightjacket, there's not a whole lot left to titillate but to gossip about other people.

But as a couple of posters have mentioned, discretion is often the better part of valor, if you are in a situation where you feel free to express your sexuality, go for it, if it's just going to cause a lot of hate and discontent, then you're probobly better off laying a little lower - there is a certain amont of validity in allowing parents to exert some degree of control over social influences on their children, for beter or worse, until they reach the age of majority - even if the forces of morality are probobly the worst offenders when it comes to blabbering about it in public - I really didn't need to know what Clinton did with his cigar.

So it goes.




Rover -> RE: Openness (1/13/2008 10:14:41 AM)

Have you checked under your bed lately?  I hear conservatives have replaced the boogey man.
 
John




AnimusRex -> RE: Openness (1/13/2008 10:16:39 AM)

Dear Ryugen-
This is Dad speaking. Now that you are an adult, I felt that this Christmas dinner should be a little different than when you were a youngster.
As you know, your mom and I have enjoyed a sexual relationship for years, dating back to before you were born.

We are not ashamed of our desire for sex with each other, and wish to live as vanilla heterosexuals openly.
Therefore, during Christmas dinner your mom will be under the table blowing me while I eat, then when I am finished, I will bend her over the table and sodomize her during the dessert.

I know this will require some open mindedness on your part, and your mom and I certainly hope you can be liberal enough to accept our lifestyle and not judge us for being vanilla heterosexuals.

Love,
Dad




christine1 -> RE: Openness (1/13/2008 10:25:26 AM)

my best friend knows and is very supportive of me and it provides me a way to talk about it, although she doesnt' fully understand since she is very vanilla...but she loves me so she listens and tries to understand and i adore her for that.
i won't tell my family ever, it is none of their business what i do behind closed doors and i don't want to know what goes on behind theirs either.
a few co workers suspect things just because i slip every now and again, but generally no, i don't shout it from the mountain top because to me it is a very personal and intimate thing and i dont' think everyone needs to know those kinds of things about me.




christine1 -> RE: Openness (1/13/2008 10:35:17 AM)

nah, conservatives (and i lean that way), aren't politically correct enough to be the boogey man, they'd be too picky about who's bed they were under...sorry OP, not meaning to hijack.

please don't flame or attack me anyone i was just making a joke, if it wasn't funny to you, then i guess it's a good old case of the person telling the joke thinking it's the funniest and i'm ok with that.

i think the ability to laugh at oneself is a good thing sometimes....




Amaros -> RE: Openness (1/13/2008 10:48:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Have you checked under your bed lately?  I hear conservatives have replaced the boogey man.
 
John
I live in a very conservative community, the outskirts of Mormon country, trust me, it isn't my imagination. Some local High School students started a chapter of the Gay/Straight alliance in a local High School, and there was much sturm and drang, and a great deal of vocal opposition, it was front page news for a couple of weeks. The head of the County detention facility went on record saying he was "tired of these people hiding behind the statutes" - hiding from who? Half the hate crimes in the state have happened in this county.

The club was eventually allowed, as federal laws state that clubs cannot be selectively discriminated against, i.e., if they didn't allow the G/S allience, they would have to abolish all the other clubs as well - the Mormon church has a facility right on campus at my old high school, which I'm sure is probobly illegal, except that it's probobly in return for some sort of donation.

So yeah, I do check under my bed. It being an oilfield town, there's plenty of slack depending on who you associate with, but religious social conservatives are very vocal and evident and wield a certain amount of political-economic and social influence. We manage to beat them back eventually, usually, but it's an ongoing thing, Satan is everywhere...




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