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Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 8:30:11 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally
By NICHOLAS WAPSHOTT
Staff Reporter of the Sun
November 13, 2007

Not to be outdone by President Sarkozy's amorous overture to President Bush in Washington, Prime Minister Brown of Britain has used the first major foreign policy speech of his premiership to insist that Britain is America's closest ally.

After decades of Anglo-French rivalry, in which France has vehemently deplored the global influence America and Britain have attained and what every president of France since Charles de Gaulle has described as "Anglo-Saxon culture," Mr. Sarkozy claimed during his visit to Washington last week that France, not Britain, is now America's best friend and partner.

Read the whole thing.

Germany's Merkel is pro-American as well, isn't she?

Tell me ... what happened to the "Bush has caused the US to lose all it's international friends" meme that was being thrown around a couple of years ago?

Firm

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 8:39:54 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Still there.  The rarified atmosphere of Britian, France and Germany (all of which are pretty well out of touch with the actual globe) and alliances with  and amongst each other isn't saying much at all of nothing........

These guys who wont join us in the war on terror are walking around sucking on our cock for what reason?  Wanna keep the dink in the foreign aide pie?  Or are they pre-sucking the next president?

Posturing of national interests is not any reason to read great things about bush into it.

Ron

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 8:45:23 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Crikey - the French of all people getting us off the hook............

E

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 8:53:42 AM   
Lucylastic


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Laffin too hard to make a coher...choher....decent response
heeeee
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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 9:03:47 AM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		It's always been that way in Europe for a long time. Even before the US, European nations would fight and try to pit alliances against each other. Did you know Queen Elizabeth I made an alliance with Ivan the Terrible in Russia back in the 1400s? And that alliance is what utimately allowed the British to destroy the Spanish Armada.

That kind of fighting is what ultimately lead to the founding of the United States. Because when the colonists began to revolt, who pledged support to the colonists? The French and Germans. Why? Because they wanted to hurt Britain.

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 10:16:40 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Cyberdude. just how did Russia, with no navy, help defeat the Spanish Armada ?  A source would be good. The only links between the Uk and Russia at that time were for trade.

You are partly correct about the support from Europe for the American revoloution. This was almost totally done by France though, both with finance and military aid. At that time germany was just a collection of small states and didnt have any kind of navy.

As for the question about who is Americas closest friend now. I dont see the French in Afghanistan or Iraq as yet.

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 10:28:14 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Posturing of national interests is not any reason to read great things about bush into it.

If so, then the earlier posturing of national interests (of anti-Americanism) isn't any reason to read bad things about Bush into it, is it?

Should works both ways, shouldn't it Ron?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The rarified atmosphere of Britian, France and Germany (all of which are pretty well out of touch with the actual globe) and alliances with  and amongst each other isn't saying much at all of nothing........

oh, well. Sorry. I was confused.

I thought that the more powerful a nation was on the international stage, the more important it was to have good relations with it.

But, I guess it is really French Guiana and Luxembourg that are the important powers in today's world .... 

Firm

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 10:41:52 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		I think the UK would be better off being more independant of both the US and Europe,

Go our own way, kick public schoolboys (privately educated) into touch and encourage the natural skills of the intelligent working and more likely middle  classes.
Temporally subsidise production by withdrawing every penny given to every artist and all other useless recipients.  I decide who  is useless.

Especially  no help for criminals who, when sent to prison would be consigned to street cleaning with tooth brushes   or rock breaking with toffee hammers things  like that. Zero pay just the basic bed and board and only that if they behaved themselves.  Credit to accrue to the compliant to be payed on release as a help in restarting their lives.
Serious mis behaviour and they could expect to be flogged !

Massive subsidy to those who could develop automated machinery so that wage rate differentials with India/China could be addressed.
If that doesnt improve things then nothing will.

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 10:48:12 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Posturing of national interests is not any reason to read great things about bush into it.

If so, then the earlier posturing of national interests (of anti-Americanism) isn't any reason to read bad things about Bush into it, is it?


Should works both ways, shouldn't it Ron?



No, it does not necessarily follow, unless you are saying that Hitler is a hero cause he fixed the fucked up economy in Germany for a couple months.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


The rarified atmosphere of Britian, France and Germany (all of which are pretty well out of touch with the actual globe) and alliances with  and amongst each other isn't saying much at all of nothing........

oh, well. Sorry. I was confused.

I thought that the more powerful a nation was on the international stage, the more important it was to have good relations with it.

But, I guess it is really French Guiana and Luxembourg that are the important powers in today's world .... 

Firm


No, it would be more along the lines of China and Russia and several countries in the Middle East.

After all, the time to repair the roof is while the sun is shining...

LOL,
Ron 

edited for them fuckin' quote boxes....and while on that subject, if you don't want to deal with people who swear FHK don't fuck around anywhere near people who swear.....a matter of dignity, I should think. Only way that one will work out.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/3/2008 10:50:33 AM >

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 11:30:36 AM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Cyberdude. just how did Russia, with no navy, help defeat the Spanish Armada ?  A source would be good. The only links between the Uk and Russia at that time were for trade.

You are partly correct about the support from Europe for the American revoloution. This was almost totally done by France though, both with finance and military aid. At that time germany was just a collection of small states and didnt have any kind of navy.

As for the question about who is Americas closest friend now. I dont see the French in Afghanistan or Iraq as yet.


Well "alliance" was a bad choice of words. But Ivan and Elizabeth were friends and made trade deals (including shipbuilding supplies) that made it easier for the British to build a strong enough navy to defeat Spain's. The relationship between the two leaders established a diplomatic relationship between the two countries that lasted until the end of the 18th century.
There are many letters sent from Elizabeth to Ivan sitting in a museum in Moscow today.

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 11:40:36 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Cyberdude, The main raw material for our navies was English oak, thats why we dont have many forests left.... Lol.... Your right about trade deals though, we actually continued trading with Russia right up to 1917, except for during the Crimean war..

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 12:04:23 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		From one who is rather politically ignorant.. I thought France was, in general, a land of frollocking, flag-burning homosexuals who want nothing more than to put the world on a socialist agenda?

Or, sterotype asside.. they're the US's ally..? And they're arguing that they're a close one..?

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 3:19:22 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Cyberdude. just how did Russia, with no navy, help defeat the Spanish Armada ?  A source would be good. The only links between the Uk and Russia at that time were for trade.

You are partly correct about the support from Europe for the American revoloution. This was almost totally done by France though, both with finance and military aid. At that time germany was just a collection of small states and didnt have any kind of navy.

As for the question about who is Americas closest friend now. I dont see the French in Afghanistan or Iraq as yet.


The French are in Afghanistan, P;

http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/defense.asp

Having said that, I'd still rate England over France, in terms of "closeness".

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 3:41:35 PM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Governments will always court the US by virtue of the strength of the US economy.

I have to say though, is this the fuckin' school playground - he likes me more than you!, my dad's bigger than your dad!

Regardless, Europeans are suspicious of religious extremism, so when Clinton's lot held court, they were viewed as just another gang working on behalf of their people - no different to any other government; Bush's lot - people are scratching their heads in bewilderment at this "we must fight the evil ones". That's the size of it - English, German, French etc - none of us can understand this weird religious thing you have going on over there.

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 3:43:16 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Great news level, maybe you can all stop calling chips freedom fries and revert to French fries then.


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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 3:53:55 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

That kind of fighting is what ultimately lead to the founding of the United States. Because when the colonists began to revolt, who pledged support to the colonists? The French and Germans. Why? Because they wanted to hurt Britain.



Cutting a long story short, at University we undertook a module in revolution, which included France, Russia, the United States and England; my understanding is the US was founded by people completely disillusioned with absolutism and intolerance, i.e. 'nothing to do with statesmanship.

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 3:59:20 PM   
Muttling


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Status: offline 		That is just BIZARRE.......NO....it is BEYOND BIZARRE


France has spent the last 10 years trying to leverage the EU so that it can reduce our power while upping their own.  They have spent many years making it plain that they seek to undermine our economic dominance while supplanting their own.   (I am not at all offended by this and actually think that healthy competition is a good thing.)   Now they're trying to show off as a better ally than the Britt's who have stood beside us all this time????

France, Russia, and China are allies that worry me.  I wouldn't chase em off, but I sure wouldn't give them the keys to the hen house.

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 4:05:14 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Great news level, maybe you can all stop calling chips freedom fries and revert to French fries then.




Arrrgh, don't bring that up  Not many morons over here actually did that, thankfully.

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/3/2008 4:07:59 PM   
MasDom


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Status: offline 		Really were fucked either way.
Lets face it as our economy go's down, there only going to tell us to go fuck ourselves any ways.
For that I say choose the British, because at least those guys stick around, whether wanted to or not.
I can respect that, but the damn french?....

After that air head kept the blue hats from defending Angola, I say fuck the French, there governments just were the French Canadian idiots running Canada come from.

And as for Germany?....
Well they never did much for me to judge really.

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RE: Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally - 1/6/2008 5:30:26 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Never be shy about saying anything to the English: they are too proud to be touchy. The long history of prosperity means England has no inferiority complex. The only feeling inspired of her by foreign nations is one of immense indifference.
 
Andre Maurois - a French orderly to the British Army, 1918.

I love England for its absolute indifference; that's why I chose to live here. I think the English have a superiority complex. The Germans are always asking, "What do you think of us?" They care, you see. The English don't give a damn. They're certain they're superior to everyone else, so they couldn't care less what others think.
 
American war correspondent Martha Gellhorn.

The English are profoundly independent and insular.

French Tourist Office, 1996.

You see, Firmhand, while our government plays games with all and sundry, borne out of economic expedience, the English people couldn't care less: we're indifferent to the whims of other peoples. Closest ally?.....meaningful at a government level; meaningless at a people level.

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