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Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 7:23:15 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I've always wondered about the confusing aspects of this sort of guy. Why would you want a sub who was just like mom?

And didn't you have to submit to her? Very odd.

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 7:25:32 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Oedipus complex fits in nicely with the Madonna Whore complex too,.... I never understood why men love having sex with whores, and yet only married frigid women.... who knows why these things are the way they are.

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 7:30:10 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		It just seemed a bit like regression with a kinky twist. Then again, I never did understand age play. Especially with the dichotomy of someone supposedly seking control-who wants to be a little boy again.

Wierd.

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 7:32:34 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		the Oedipus complex has nothing to do with age play from anything I have ever read

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 7:36:22 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		No kidding, I just recently was contacted by one    and all I could think to answer was that I do not want another son, one's enough    

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 8:01:12 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Oedipus complex fits in nicely with the Madonna Whore complex too,.... I never understood why men love having sex with whores, and yet only married frigid women.... who knows why these things are the way they are.


:: raises my hand ::

As I explained in your other thread recently, men tend to seek women who remind them of their mothers because their mother was their first and strongest role model of what "women" are supposed to be like.  Generally this isn't a bad thing, but it can, like anything, be taken to an unhealthy degree.  An Oedipus complex is that basic "instinct" taken to an unhealthy extreme.  For any of a variety of reasons (which will vary from one individual to the next) a man may so strongly focus on his mother as a role model that he obsessively seeks a mate who closely resembles his mother in whatever ways are important to him (appearance, physical attributes, demeanor, character, etc.).  Its the fact that it becomes an obsession that makes it unhealthy.  Women sometimes do this as well regarding their fathers, its called the Electra Complex.

The Madonna-Whore complex is a slightly more complicated variation on the Oedipus complex.  In this case the mother is idolized as an image of purity... the "madonna" or virgin mother... the idea of making any sexual associations with this image is repulsive to the individual.  However, sexual urges are powerful and seek expression, so the individual (who probably also see's sex as being "dirty") seeks out the opposite of that "madonna" ideal as a sexual partner... a whore.  Interestingly, the more sex is made to seem "dirty" in general by a culture (that is, a culture states or implies that any and all sex is somehow "dirty" and/or taboo)... the more frequently the Madonna-Whore complex emerges in individuals. 

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 9:25:35 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

The Madonna-Whore complex is a slightly more complicated variation on the Oedipus complex.  In this case the mother is idolized as an image of purity... the "madonna" or virgin mother... the idea of making any sexual associations with this image is repulsive to the individual.  However, sexual urges are powerful and seek expression, so the individual (who probably also see's sex as being "dirty") seeks out the opposite of that "madonna" ideal as a sexual partner... a whore.  Interestingly, the more sex is made to seem "dirty" in general by a culture (that is, a culture states or implies that any and all sex is somehow "dirty" and/or taboo)... the more frequently the Madonna-Whore complex emerges in individuals. 



My best friend has repeatedly been attracted to men that have this issue. I would say that this is because it is so prevalent in men to have this complex, and while it is prevalent, I have never been attracted to men that suffered from it..

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 9:28:38 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I've always wondered about the confusing aspects of this sort of guy. Why would you want a sub who was just like mom?

And didn't you have to submit to her? Very odd.


I don't think this is a conscious decision when it occurs.  Something within ones psyche might relate to the mother figure of a woman, and for reasons either unknown or not understood, the attraction occurs.

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 9:36:20 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

The Madonna-Whore complex is a slightly more complicated variation on the Oedipus complex.  In this case the mother is idolized as an image of purity... the "madonna" or virgin mother... the idea of making any sexual associations with this image is repulsive to the individual.  However, sexual urges are powerful and seek expression, so the individual (who probably also see's sex as being "dirty") seeks out the opposite of that "madonna" ideal as a sexual partner... a whore.  Interestingly, the more sex is made to seem "dirty" in general by a culture (that is, a culture states or implies that any and all sex is somehow "dirty" and/or taboo)... the more frequently the Madonna-Whore complex emerges in individuals. 



My best friend has repeatedly been attracted to men that have this issue. I would say that this is because it is so prevalent in men to have this complex, and while it is prevalent, I have never been attracted to men that suffered from it..

A very interesting question to ask her is why is she attracted to such men... does she want to be their Madonna... or their Whore?

Just as some men have some, shall we say "extreme", views of what women should be, so do some women.  There are those who very much identify with that "Madonna" ideal, who view themselves as being too pure to be touch, above anything carnal, etc. and so come across as frigid and experience unusual degrees of anxiety in sexual situations.  Other women more identify with the "Whore" ideal, seeing themselves as dirty, soiled, filthy, lowly, unfit for certain kinds of relationships.  The Madonna-Whore complex can appear in women just as often as it does in men, the chief difference being that men apply it to women, while women apply it to themselves identifying with one or the other extreme.

There is a submissive I've been talking with for nearly two years now who very much has her own Madonna-Whore complex going.  She identifies with the Whore aspect, yet wants to be more like the Madonna aspect, and has been quite unhappily conflicted as a result.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 9:42:01 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I think I will ask her about this.... perhaps it will give her food for thought

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 9:56:28 AM   
ShadowMster


Posts: 94
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

The Madonna-Whore complex is a slightly more complicated variation on the Oedipus complex.  In this case the mother is idolized as an image of purity... the "madonna" or virgin mother... the idea of making any sexual associations with this image is repulsive to the individual.  However, sexual urges are powerful and seek expression, so the individual (who probably also see's sex as being "dirty") seeks out the opposite of that "madonna" ideal as a sexual partner... a whore.  Interestingly, the more sex is made to seem "dirty" in general by a culture (that is, a culture states or implies that any and all sex is somehow "dirty" and/or taboo)... the more frequently the Madonna-Whore complex emerges in individuals. 


Well said.  Interesting enough, this can be easily shown as cultures around the world have different impressions on what is or is not taboo.  From the early greek who required that whores color their hair blonde (hence the age old "blondes are easy"), to the vails required of modern day arab countries, again reinforcing your point.

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 10:08:50 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I've always wondered about the confusing aspects of this sort of guy. Why would you want a sub who was just like mom?

And didn't you have to submit to her? Very odd.

My longest lasting D/s friendship is with a Dom younger enough to be my son  (aren't most of them these days lol)....he text me once to say:
~Mommy you have been in charge for long enough. Now it's time for revenge~....god he's HOT stuff.......
ed to say: he's a taboo in his own lunchtime ....;).

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 12/30/2007 10:10:23 AM >

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 10:40:47 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I've always wondered about the confusing aspects of this sort of guy. Why would you want a sub who was just like mom?

And didn't you have to submit to her? Very odd.


It's not that cut and dried.  The oedipus complex goes back to when a child develops at around 3 to 5, and as i recall then re emerges around puberty - it's a way to work through attachment, jealousies, sexual feelings etc, it works on the unconscious level.  i don't think anyone consciously "wants" to find a partner like their parent, and if you had healthy relationships, not neurotic ones, you probably won't. 

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 10:48:26 AM   
Kaiynasha


Posts: 172
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Leatherist, someone who has this desire, have not left the third stage of psychosexual development and really needs to work that out. Therefore they try to work it out through D/s. In some ways it makes sense but it also doesn't resolve the problem- all it does is make the matter a lot worse.

According to Freud, the male or female going through the Oedipus Complex should be resolving  it by identifying themselves with their same-sex (father and mother). When this occurs the desire to be like dad or mom is strenthen. Those who do not resolve this conflict often seek out Daddys and Mommys which can put the person in an unsafe situation. Such as abusive and controlling relationships. Viola! They may find D/s as a good fit because the conflict is accepted. But they never resolve it.

Does that make sense?

Ms. K

< Message edited by Kaiynasha -- 12/30/2007 10:51:06 AM >

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 11:00:50 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Well, for someone who had trouble separating self from maternal figure at the appropriate age, this could be considered a way to replay the original problem but having it come out right. Instead of him being told when to go to bed, he tells her. Psychodrama exists in many wonderful and wacky ways.

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 11:10:55 AM   
Kaiynasha


Posts: 172
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Hmm DesFIP interesting thought- that by replaying the conflict the person actually resolves it by taking on the role of Daddy or Mommy. Could be possible and would be excellent research to conduct to see if resolution can come for other persuasions.

In playing devil's advocate the person could simply be using the control and power to fixate on the desire to be with the opposite sex. Meaning should the Dom or Domme tell the Mommy or Daddy what to do- then has sex with them. The fixation in itself doesn't resolve but feed the desire.

Remember the Opedipus Complex is based on the child desiring to gain attention and affection of the opposite sex- and jealousy and anger of the same sex. So does the Dom or Domme become angry with him/herself for the act?



_____________________________

"Intimacy is based on shared vulnerability...nothing deepens intimacy
like the experiences that we share when we feel flayed, with our skins
off, scared and vulnerable, and our partner is there with us, willing
to share in the scary stuff"

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 11:22:15 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I wasn't saying to switch roles. I was saying replaying it and having it come out right. When we do roleplay it's always ageplay with me two years younger than the age of majority. That's because I went off to college at that point,  a time when I had just been allowed to date for a year. Academically I did great and having been to a prep school, boarding school, I could handle doing my homework without being told and doing my laundry with no problem. But emotionally I was a wreck.

Here I was being an adult, yet I wasn't anywhere near old enough to vote or drive. The combination of things was rough as all hell on me. So I like to roleplay it without all the extraneous freedoms and just focus in on the emotional control I still needed but of course wasn't getting since I hadn't lived at home full time for over two years. I find it very helpful to get back into that headspace and receive the tight control I didn't then get. And I don't see why doms can't get the same benefit from it themselves.

I wasn't sent off to school, for what it's worth. My mother was horrified at us leaving home for h.s., she was sure she would be condemned for sending us off. Knowing people who went off to school, we lobbied for it.

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 11:38:53 AM   
Kaiynasha


Posts: 172
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		I think I understand your point DesFIP. As I said it could be possible and if it makes the person feel better emotionally doing it- there's nothing wrong with that either. People will get their needs met how they see fit. As long as it is healthy and safe- it is anyones right to do so.

However, I think I am going to think about research implications of this thread.

Ms. K

_____________________________

"Intimacy is based on shared vulnerability...nothing deepens intimacy
like the experiences that we share when we feel flayed, with our skins
off, scared and vulnerable, and our partner is there with us, willing
to share in the scary stuff"

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 11:45:43 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

Remember the Opedipus Complex is based on the child desiring to gain attention and affection of the opposite sex- and jealousy and anger of the same sex. So does the Dom or Domme become angry with him/herself for the act?


yes., and these types turn into mama's boys. 

For the most part, anger with father while mother doted on them, stroked their egos, sometimes abuse from the father or father figure. Easy to recognize and decide what to do while in the company of this type.

Runnnnnnnnnnn

(unless you like this type, of course)

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RE: Doms with an Oedipus complex. - 12/30/2007 2:31:41 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I will add to what Padriag said (which I think was very insightful) that mothers are often enablers and unconditional lovers and that adult women (specially subs) tend to want to be givers and helpers. 

I think we can all think of a few dozen dominants who really just don't have skills to be a mature adult and just want someone to take care and do it all for them.

I recently dealt with a female with similar madonna/whore issues.  She knows she is only with her boyfriend because it's easier to be "with someone" than be single and he has money (his daddy's borrowed money) and is completely willing to jump on the next ship that comes by with a better offer.  But she's completely ok with that and still considers herself a find good normal person.

But her friend who has a rich 70 yo lover who pays for her apartment along with two other girls and his wife, who all get together and "do stuff for him" is a total whore.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 12/30/2007 2:34:03 PM >

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