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RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 10:32:27 AM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
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i think it is typical for others to judge people..you hear it all the time "Wow why is he/she with her/him?" so people do that do eachother all the time, not only in the lifestyle.

We also can do that to ourselves...i thought i was not worthy of my Daddy when i met him (so, not in his league)....told him that a zillion and one different ways....tried to "save him" from me....LOL....then he told me "Don't ever think for me again."

So where we see others (on a pedestal or beneath) and where we see ourselves (pedestal or beneath) is just perspective...IMO...

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 21

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 10:56:00 AM

TMaster2

Posts: 194
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline

Of course there are "leagues." Some are reasonable, some are from cliques and such, but they're there, nonetheless. When I go to some convention or workshop or play party and see some "expert" using a single-tail on a volunteer, I know right away they are out of my league, at least with that kind of stuff. I might can learn it and one day be up to par, but right now the "league" is absolutely there.

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Post #: 22

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 11:11:15 AM

Rushemery

Posts: 310
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

Of course there are leagues. The cool thing is most people have no idea what league they are in and will often think someone is in or out of their league and be completely wrong.

Much like beauty, leagues are in the eye (and mind) of the beholder.

Taggard

I agree with this, but lol would like to add people can learn if they choose to, social graces ect.. regardless if your born trash or from a good family anyone can raise above it and set standards for themselves or lower themselves. I see more value in someone who shows me honesty and a willingness to better themselves or try to than someone who thinks they have money and breeding. its like dating a really pretty girls compaired to one that isnt as pretty quite often the pretty one thinks they dont have to earn their way just because he is lucky I have her well thats fine for them but is it the truth??? My father always said to go and find myself an ugly woman and I would be happy the rest of my life, Im not sure thats the truth but it may be. I dont know everyone Ive dated and that, have been pretty to me outside and I learned werent pretty inside and so Im single again of course open me up and I may not be that pretty either, so leagues well I say to each their own but when I go out I talk to everyone from the DA to the drunk sleeping at the end of the bar.
big Grin

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 23

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 12:30:40 PM

DarkDaddyZ

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
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We sometimes seem to believe because we are kinky that we don't have the same values, ethics and preferences that non kinky folk do. We have many similarities of non kinky folks and sometimes we are even less tolerant than them (look at some of the threads in Off Topic). I approach people that I am attracted to in the lifestyle probably the same way I would anyone else but personally I don't usually date those not into power exchange.

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(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 24

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 3:30:35 PM

MidMichCowboy

Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
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I think its harder to find someone in this lifestyle. Not only do you have to match up intellectually, culturally, with the same likes, expectations and desires, on top of that, you have to match your kinds to each other.
As are as being in the same league, most of the women I've known in my life were way out of my league. But, I'm a persistant b**tard.

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Post #: 25

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 4:07:35 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

In the vanilla world, there is a concept of leagues. Like someone is out of someone's league because they are more socially desirable for whatever reasons.

Does this apply to kinky people you think?

Like such and such submissive or dominant is generally held as more desirable for superficial reasons and it makes them out of some people's leagues?

Strangely, I dont feel that my Master and I could be labeled with leagues. We are just right for each other because of our own individual needs and quirks. We each have some niceties and we each have characteristics that would make us undesirable to masses of people. But I dont know if everyone is like us.

People are people. It doesn't matter if we are dominant, submissive or vanilla. If someone is inclined to view there as being leagues, they will. Some people are more desirable to a large population for whatever reasons, those people can afford be picky. You see it all the time when male dominants are looking for young, nubile, intelligent, bisexual, poly women.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/26/2007 4:10:44 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kitttty)

Post #: 26

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 4:08:18 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
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And I am more into this as an art form, than a lifestyle.

Power dynamics have pretty much zero interest for me-beyond a scene. I tend to enjoy creating things with another artist than I do just fucking around. Call me odd, but I enjoy the tension more than I do climax.

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Post #: 27

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 4:28:08 PM

kitttty

Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

When I go to some convention or workshop or play party and see some "expert" using a single-tail on a volunteer, I know right away they are out of my league, at least with that kind of stuff.

Well, this is kind of what I mean by less leagues in the BDSM world.

Someone values intelligence, someone else values flogging technique, someone else values logical thinking, someone else values experience.

I have been surprised to find young attractive women who want to submit to only men over 40 or only to people into a certain kink regardless of how they look or what they have.

There probably are a lot of guys that want bisexual, young, intelligent, poly and hot girls, but the interesting that I find is that such women exist and do not neccesarily want hot young rich intelligent guys. Same with the reverse. Some hot young rich attractive guys want to submit to a ssbbw twice their age.

My perception of vanilla dating is that looks and social status are extremely important in choosing mates. Im sure plenty of people dont care, but all my friends seem to, even if they do it subconsciously.

(in reply to TMaster2)

Post #: 28

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 4:51:14 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Dear daddyncherry, Ladies and Gentlemen;

When I think of the word league(s); I think of it more in the line of a 'club' like sports -- NFL League, AFL League, baseball the American and National Leagues. This is an association, a group, a confederation and or confederacy and all associated words but, in summary--just are many forms of an association.

I really do not wish to think of the lifestyle as some sort of 'sport' or 'competition' as a whole. I think this is where people get into trouble personally speaking. Life isn't a competition or a person's life shouldn't be defined by a "league" or by associations to groups or confederations and or clubs. So many people feel that without a resume` of groups they belong to, how many titles they hold and or board of directors/leadership posts --that they are just below the curb as far as importance goes -- a lot of insecure people use 'positions/titles' as to be important. If they loose from an election its extremely ugly and do something else as to get attention and seen as important. Fortunately, this is not the over all state of things however, there are people who need to feel validated through associations to 'leagues.' Even if they have to invent a club as to feel/appear important.

I do understand when entering into a new group of people and or association of people, in general people are overwhelmed and feel out of place and invites comments-- "I feel out of my league.' However, that is very normal when in an new enviorment. Yet, I feel many people seem to be harsher on themselves and fail to realize that they might be the cream of the crop in some other league--just not the one they are associating with 'in the moment.'

Clubs, associations and other forms of grouping are very important to the support, education and maintaining a constant gathering point -- especially when it involves a specialized area.
However, there comes a time when living through a group, association and or being 'defined' through an association and or group--as well as a 'league'--must be abandoned as to become independent from any group/association as to maintain a relationship and live onward. The few who do--find that they are in a league of their own; which so many wish to obtain. Then individuals can 'live for' the league, group, club, association and such--not through it or defined by it.

As far as skills go -- sure, I can use single tails in the Eastcoast and Westcoast style, use two single tails at once and have also used four--two in each hand as well. I can do a lot with canes as well as floggers. I might be out of some people's experience and or skills levels for now however, I don't consider people new to the skills as being 'out of my league.' I consider them as learner, a tyro, novice or the like however--they are most welcome in any league I may be in.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 29

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 5:07:47 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

You see it all the time when male dominants are looking for young, nubile, intelligent, bisexual, poly women.

Who they have as much chance of getting as I have of dating Johnny Depp

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 30

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 5:09:03 PM

KindLadyGrey

Posts: 358
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I have been surprised to find young attractive women who want to submit to only men over 40 or only to people into a certain kink regardless of how they look or what they have.

There probably are a lot of guys that want bisexual, young, intelligent, poly and hot girls, but the interesting that I find is that such women exist and do not neccesarily want hot young rich intelligent guys. Same with the reverse. Some hot young rich attractive guys want to submit to a ssbbw twice their age.

This is a very good point. Many superficial characteristics don't matter, but experience definitely does.

I am one of those young intelligent poly girls who prefers to play with older Dom/mes who have more experience. I would never arbitrarily rule out meeting someone because of age, but it's just hard for a Dom/me with little experience to call my sub-side out effectively.

Ask any newbie to this lifestyle and they'll tell you that they definitely feel like some of the more experienced players are out of their league. I've heard new subbie boys lament that they feel like they don't even have the right to *speak* to some of the obviously experienced and socially well liked Dommes, and that they feel like right idiots when they finally work up the chuztpah to do so anyway.

Of course, sometimes it works out, so it's always better to take a chance even if you think someone is out of your league. After all, no one can avoid looking like an idiot all the time, no matter how hard they try, so we might as well take a few chances instead of being afraid of rejection and embarrassment all the time.

(in reply to kitttty)

Post #: 31

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 5:24:14 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

You see it all the time when male dominants are looking for young, nubile, intelligent, bisexual, poly women.

Who they have as much chance of getting as I have of dating Johnny Depp

Ahh but we can hope!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 32

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 6:50:09 PM

kitttty

Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Who they have as much chance of getting as I have of dating Johnny Depp

Or you can be like my Master and find someone who is only young and nubile and then somehow make them act smart, become bisexual and poly.

See, maybe there's hope of snagging Johnny Depp.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 33

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 6:56:43 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

quote:

Who they have as much chance of getting as I have of dating Johnny Depp

Or you can be like my Master and find someone who is only young and nubile and then somehow make them act smart, become bisexual and poly.

See, maybe there's hope of snagging Johnny Depp.

I was not insulting spring/winter romances......

My first dom was old enough to be my father... he would have loved me to be poly and bi, but as much as I would love to have pleased him at the time... one cannot make themselves a bisexual, they can only make themselves perform the acts. Either you are bi, or you're not. Some argue the same is true for poly. Now once you can come back and state that you have had romantic feelings for women and are in a poly relationship..well I will call Johnny up for a date

And I am nubile too, I still have eggs, I can still reproduce, and I am marriagable

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 12/26/2007 6:57:39 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kitttty)

Post #: 34

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 7:04:35 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Either you are bi, or you're not. Some argue the same is true for poly. Now once you can come back and state that you have had romantic feelings for women and are in a poly relationship..well I will call Johnny up for a date

Damn, you've got his number? You are a million steps ahead of me!

Kidding aside, I've got to agree. There is a huge difference between obeying, performing the acts and actually being bi. I'd guess the same thing goes for poly.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 35

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/26/2007 7:09:53 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Im hoping she really comes back and posts that she is in a poly bisexual love relationship, and she posts Johnny's number for me, Sinergy will understand

, hey, he might even swap me for Johnny's wife

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 36

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/27/2007 3:44:27 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Ask any newbie to this lifestyle and they'll tell you that they definitely feel like some of the more experienced players are out of their league. I've heard new subbie boys lament that they feel like they don't even have the right to *speak* to some of the obviously experienced and socially well liked Dommes, and that they feel like right idiots when they finally work up the chuztpah to do so anyway.

i found the best way around this is not to know who they are when you sit down next to them at the bar at the convention hotel...i freaked out for a week whe i came home and figured out who a Dom was that i had just sat next to in the bar and started talking to...i could have never done that if i had known who he was before hand....

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 37

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/27/2007 10:21:41 PM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline

Thank you LadyHugs for your wonderful words, and i couldn't agree with them more.

In my useage of the word "league" i wasn't exactly meaning a group, community or the like...i actually wanted a Master/Daddy who was in a higher "lifestyle" league than i was. i wanted to be with someone with experience, skill, knowledge, etc.

When i used the term league it was more to infer, that i felt physically/aesthetically, emotionally and intellectually as if he was way out of my league..more like in "class", maybe (?)....Kinda of like if he was the captain of the football team and i felt like the outcast type (to use collegiate terms)

But again, thank you, for the kind words and good thoughts....they may not fit what i was using the term league for but they are valuable nonetheless.

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 38

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/27/2007 11:39:07 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Im hoping she really comes back and posts that she is in a poly bisexual love relationship, and she posts Johnny's number for me, Sinergy will understand, hey, he might even swap me for Johnny's wife

I dunno if Valyraen would understand... but maybe if I beg just right...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 39

RE: kinksters and leagues - 12/28/2007 2:15:44 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

It's more about compatability.

When it comes to interpersonal relationships i would not use the term "league" which would imply that some are superior or 'better' than others, where 'better suited' would be my choice of words. i honestly believe i'm good enough for anyone, but embrace the fact that i am not a suitable partner for a lot of people.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

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(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 40

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