Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (Full Version)

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Sanity -> Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 6:53:40 AM)

Why be upset? It's just a myth, after all...


quote:


The Reagan-era officials said the movie promotes the left-wing myth that the CIA-led operation funded Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda and ultimately produced the attacks of September 11, 2001....

...That anti-American aspect of the film, namely that the Afghan operation ultimately caused the September 11 attacks, reportedly was altered after protests from Mr. Wilson and his former fiancee, Joanne Herring.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/NATION/549681582/1008







Level -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 6:57:09 AM)

Charlie was my congressman; he's a decent guy.




Sanity -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 7:00:56 AM)

It sounds like it. I like the way he rebuffed the Hollywood slant on his story.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Charlie was my congressman; he's a decent guy.




Level -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 7:18:28 AM)

He's an interesting character [X(]; loves the ladies, too!




Owner59 -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 7:22:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why be upset? It's just a myth, after all...


quote:


The Reagan-era officials said the movie promotes the left-wing myth that the CIA-led operation funded Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda and ultimately produced the attacks of September 11, 2001....

...That anti-American aspect of the film, namely that the Afghan operation ultimately caused the September 11 attacks, reportedly was altered after protests from Mr. Wilson and his former fiancee, Joanne Herring.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/NATION/549681582/1008






"Reagan era officials"?

Pfff, another bunch of lying,cheating,debt producing,Iran loving,crooked snakes in the grass.

Now you guys are trying to claim that Reagan didn`t help the Mujaheddin,or create the blow-back,that was al-queda/9/11 ?

Who`s creating myths,...now?




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 7:33:59 AM)

~FR~

I am a conservative and the movie does not upset me. Todays messes, lay at the feet of many administrations before.




Sanity -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 8:46:58 AM)

From the sound of it, according to what I've heard about this new movie, maybe you have your myth cofused some. Maybe you should be blaming Charlie Wilson for the existance of radical Islam instead of "many administrations before".


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

I am a conservative and the movie does not upset me. Todays messes, lay at the feet of many administrations before.




Leonardo -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:11:40 AM)

yep, generally the democrats end up having to clean up the crap left us by the republicans... just check your history books... starting with the 1st repubbie conservative




Sanity -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:14:03 AM)

Abraham Lincoln?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo

yep, generally the democrats end up having to clean up the crap left us by the republicans... just check your history books... starting with the 1st repubbie conservative




Leonardo -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:15:00 AM)

yep




Sanity -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:17:44 AM)

What would you call him... a war-mongering, power-mad, Constitution-ignoring fascist

Or what

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo

yep




Leonardo -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:26:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

What would you call him... a war-mongering, power-mad, Constitution-ignoring fascist

Or what



well, though I didn't call Lincoln that, you did... I tip my hat to ya, as I could not have spoken truer words so eloquently




Politesub53 -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:32:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner5

"Reagan era officials"?

Pfff, another bunch of lying,cheating,debt producing,Iran loving,crooked snakes in the grass.

Now you guys are trying to claim that Reagan didn`t help the Mujaheddin,or create the blow-back,that was al-queda/9/11 ?

Who`s creating myths,...now?



Its true that Al Quaeda and Bin Laden were a product of the war between Afghanistan and the USSR. Neither received any military backing from the USA though. Bin Laden was wealthy in his own right, and also got his backing from supporters in Saudi Arabia.

The CIA did provide backing for the Afghan fighters though, much of this funnelled through the Pakistani security services. The US also initially supported the Taleban, as they thought a strict Muslim group in power would provide more stability.

Its easy to blur distictions between the two, however the truth was there were more than enough Afghans willing to fight, so as to be no need to provide cash for the Arab fighters. On top of this Bin Laden already had a hatred of the US due to the policies in Israel.

Most Hollywood films these days bere little truth to the actual events they portray.




Sanity -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:33:23 AM)

I didn't call him that, I asked what you would call him. Here's another question for you. Who freed more people, him or Bush?

Answer: Bush did.

Last question, who was hated more...

Answer - Lincoln.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

What would you call him... a war-mongering, power-mad, Constitution-ignoring fascist

Or what



well, though I didn't call Lincoln that, you did... I tip my hat to ya, as I could not have spoken truer words so eloquently




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:40:03 AM)

Now I am confused. What???!!!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

From the sound of it, according to what I've heard about this new movie, maybe you have your myth cofused some. Maybe you should be blaming Charlie Wilson for the existance of radical Islam instead of "many administrations before".


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

I am a conservative and the movie does not upset me. Todays messes, lay at the feet of many administrations before.





OrionTheWolf -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:44:35 AM)

Democrats do not leave messes? I believe both parties contribute quite a bit to some of the messes we have had. Just tell me where in history you want to begin, and we can list the pro's and con's of each administration. Once the score is tallied then we will know who won the game. The unfortunate part is we already know who loses, the American people. RAH! RAH! RAH! GO TEAM!

Cheerleaders are another reason we have problems.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo

yep, generally the democrats end up having to clean up the crap left us by the republicans... just check your history books... starting with the 1st repubbie conservative




Leonardo -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 9:48:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


Its true that Al Quaeda and Bin Laden were a product of the war between Afghanistan and the USSR. Neither received any military backing from the USA though. Bin Laden was wealthy in his own right, and also got his backing from supporters in Saudi Arabia.

The CIA did provide backing for the Afghan fighters though, much of this funnelled through the Pakistani security services. The US also initially supported the Taleban, as they thought a strict Muslim group in power would provide more stability.



So, "Bin Laden was wealthy in his own right".  

And, so how did he achieve his wealth?

And, actually, the CIA did more than provide backing funneled through Pakistan... the CIA were instrumental in creating and developing the fighters, including Bin Laden, through extensive training provided by the US.

Ironically, the US government claims to be fighting a "War Against Terrorists", and though we have had the technology to do otherwise for decades, we actually support the terrosists we are allegedly fighting by buying their oil. Had we paid attention to the words of Henry Ford back in 1908, we would not have had such a dependence on oil for fuel, and the "Heartland Theory" would have been laid to rest early in the 20th century, and the Middle East would not have anything else besides rugs and sand to exports, thereby preventing Al Quaida from having enough money to buy kleenex to blow their own noses with, much less blow anything else.




Politesub53 -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 10:43:07 AM)

Leonardo..... America didnt so much direct training, nothing that could be traced to them anyway. They tended to use ex special forces, British as well, as these could be classed as mercenaries and and official links denied. Certainly the book by Milt Bearden who ran the CIA operation goes into some detail about the links and use of the Pakistani security forces.

As for Bin Ladens wealth, most of it came from companies he ran, with money from his father. Bin laden snr was responsible for much of the modernisation of Saudi infrastructure and each  and every one of his sons is wealthy in his own right.




farglebargle -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 10:57:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I didn't call him that, I asked what you would call him. Here's another question for you. Who freed more people, him or Bush?

Answer: Bush did.


According to the 1860 Census, there were approximately 4 million slaves in the States.
( http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/slave-maps/slave-census.htm )

With a 26 Million person total population, I don't see how there could have been 4 million LEGAL SLAVES in Iraq to have been freed.

Do you have any citations to support your claim?

Which raises another question: "Who killed more of their own Citizens preventing the nation from fragmenting, Hussein or Lincoln?" Lincoln had a full-blown Civil War and the associated dissolution of Congress and the Republic. AFAIK, Hussein never lost that much control, and I expect he didn't kill 600,000 soldiers doing it, and that's excluding the civilian casualties and damage caused on Sherman's March.





Leonardo -> RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset (12/22/2007 10:58:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

America didnt so much direct training, nothing that could be traced to them anyway....

As for Bin Ladens wealth, most of it came from companies he ran, with money from his father. Bin laden snr was responsible for much of the modernisation of Saudi infrastructure and each  and every one of his sons is wealthy in his own right.


There are alot of things that America (as well as other countries, as well) do that cannot be actually traced back to them.... and that it would never admit to.

As for the Bin Laden family, if it wasn't for oil, they probably would be eating sand, since their wealth is attributed to oil.




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