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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 11:24:07 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I hate those Hollywood movies with a "message."
There was recently another "tearjerker" out "Diamonds of blood" or some such nonsense.
I don't even know what the message was but I could tell by interviews with the "stars" beforehand that I wouldn't like the movie.
They probably advocated for more "foreign aid" or immigration for "Africa".
Boo Hoo. No thanks.
They'll probably be comming out with a "Darfur" film trying to get the U.S. involved in Darfur's internal affairs with money and Troops of course!
Another propaganda film.
"Directed by Rob Reiner, Produced by Alan Alda."
"Boo Hoo, Hoo, Hoo."
"Boo, Hoo, Hoo, Hoo"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 12/22/2007 11:25:41 AM >

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 11:30:30 AM   
Masternslave07


Posts: 203
Joined: 12/29/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I didn't call him that, I asked what you would call him. Here's another question for you. Who freed more people, him or Bush?

Answer: Bush did.


According to the 1860 Census, there were approximately 4 million slaves in the States.
( http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/slave-maps/slave-census.htm )

With a 26 Million person total population, I don't see how there could have been 4 million LEGAL SLAVES in Iraq to have been freed.

Do you have any citations to support your claim?

Which raises another question: "Who killed more of their own Citizens preventing the nation from fragmenting, Hussein or Lincoln?" Lincoln had a full-blown Civil War and the associated dissolution of Congress and the Republic. AFAIK, Hussein never lost that much control, and I expect he didn't kill 600,000 soldiers doing it, and that's excluding the civilian casualties and damage caused on Sherman's March.






So I guess that the less people that are killed, the more right the cause huh? Tired of comparing Bush to Hitler? Now you are comparing Lincoln to Saddam Hussein? You are ridiculous.

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 11:34:37 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

America didnt so much direct training, nothing that could be traced to them anyway....

As for Bin Ladens wealth, most of it came from companies he ran, with money from his father. Bin laden snr was responsible for much of the modernisation of Saudi infrastructure and each  and every one of his sons is wealthy in his own right.


There are alot of things that America (as well as other countries, as well) do that cannot be actually traced back to them.... and that it would never admit to.

As for the Bin Laden family, if it wasn't for oil, they probably would be eating sand, since their wealth is attributed to oil.


You asked where his money came from, it wasnt from oil, it was from construction. If you were only going to reply with a stupid comment why pose the question ?

(in reply to Leonardo)
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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 11:46:00 AM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Though to be honest, the money Bin Ladens dad was paid with came from oil.  The contracts he bid on were funded by oil.

The thing is that most of the Mujajadeen were not Taliban and did not become Al queda, some did.  Carter started the funding and training of the Mujahadeen, not Reagan.  Most became the Northern Allaince, and fought agaisnt the Taliban.  The Taliban were created in the 90s by Pakistan, and given tacit approval and round about funding by the USA under Clinton

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 11:53:33 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masternslave07

So I guess that the less people that are killed, the more right the cause huh?


I believe it is more a case of "The Fewer Casualties for the Same Result indicates a better collection of Policy, Strategy and Tactics"

quote:


Tired of comparing Bush to Hitler?


No, but it's not relevant here.

quote:


Now you are comparing Lincoln to Saddam Hussein? You are ridiculous.


What's ridiculous about asking "Who caused less INTERNAL DAMAGE holding their nation together?" Lincoln totally failed, given that Congress dissolved, and he had to appoint $FAKE_CONGRESS to do his bidding as Commander-in-Chief. AFAIK, Hussein *never* had those sort of problems.

Given Hussein's arguably *better* management of his nation, the next question is obviously, "How many needed to die to achieve that result?"

I

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 11:54:43 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Agreed Lucky, Pakistan tended to try and fund groups sympathetic towards them and also any hardline Muslim groups. I cant recall his name but America wanted more of the money to go to the guy in the Northern Alliance who was blown up by the suicide tv crew.

Part of the problem was not only did America want to be seen funding opposition to Russian forces, but also some of the Afghans didnt want to be seen taking funds from the west. As Leonardo rightly said, there was a fair bit that went on that no one will ever admit to.

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 11:59:10 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Are you seriously trying to argue that Saddam Hussein did a good job of managing Iraq?



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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 12:14:45 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Are you seriously trying to argue that Saddam Hussein did a good job of managing Iraq?




I am suggesting the hypothesis that Hussein did a *better* job keeping Iraq unified, than Lincoln did keeping the Union unified, if graded on the number of dead Citizens required to effect the result. I think that Kurdistan makes the comparison somewhat inaccurate, however. It might merit further inquiry...


Many would argue however that Hussein did a better job than L. Ron Hubbard, sorry L. Paul Bremer ( I always get them mixed up for some reason ) ... And even the current Government, ( which has devolved to the 18 provinces exhibiting self-rule, based on Religious Sect and or Ethnic division )


Keep in mind, that was tangential to my primary question, which was "How many Legal Slaves were freed by Bush in Iraq in the invasion of 2003?". Someone suggested it was in excess of the 4 million freed by Lincoln... ( which, given the Border States were unaffected by the Emancipation Proclaimation makes it even less precise.. .)


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 12/22/2007 12:17:12 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 1:11:45 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo

yep, generally the democrats end up having to clean up the crap left us by the republicans... just check your history books... starting with the 1st repubbie conservative


You mean like that wonderfully unecessary conflict that had noting to do with American interests at the time that, the racist, eugenic loving Democrat Woodrow Wilson got is in after running on keeping us out?

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 1:13:37 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo

yep, generally the democrats end up having to clean up the crap left us by the republicans... just check your history books... starting with the 1st repubbie conservative


Or do you mean the long standing peace and unity that Harry S. Truman work out with Uncle Joe after WW II?

(in reply to Leonardo)
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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 1:15:58 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		He was probably talking about Vietnam

No, wait - Democrats got us into that one too!

"Doh!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo

yep, generally the democrats end up having to clean up the crap left us by the republicans... just check your history books... starting with the 1st repubbie conservative


You mean like that wonderfully unecessary conflict that had noting to do with American interests at the time that, the racist, eugenic loving Democrat Woodrow Wilson got is in after running on keeping us out?


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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 1:40:44 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		Who is posting next? David Duke?????

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 1:59:31 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

Who is posting next? David Duke?????


Dark Daddy, worse, probably Hillary Clinton.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 2:16:12 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		I think he was making a joke, popeye.... you know, suggesting that I must be prejudiced - because I'm white, and I live in Idaho...

See the humor?

< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/22/2007 2:21:43 PM >

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RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 2:25:03 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I must be missing a joke? I will see your Duke and raise you one Sharpton. So is this stud, draw or texas hold em that we are playing?


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

Who is posting next? David Duke?????


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 2:43:05 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I must be missing a joke? I will see your Duke and raise you one Sharpton. So is this stud, draw or texas hold em that we are playing?


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

Who is posting next? David Duke?????


LOL Sharpton isn't looking for a race war........but we won't get into that.  Nothing to see here, move along, move along.

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"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 2:45:22 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		DDZ, I'd ask you why you said that about David Duke; I generally enjoy your posts, so that one has me scratching my head, to be honest.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 2:45:42 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Idaho?
Well I live in S. Carolina, surely you guys can come up with some good stereotypes about this state.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 2:54:45 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

DDZ, I'd ask you why you said that about David Duke; I generally enjoy your posts, so that one has me scratching my head, to be honest.

I appreciate you enjoying my posts.

I'm a liberal, left of center. Sometimes when I read some of the post from conservatives (not always but sometimes) I feel that they sometimes have other undertones.  Not always but sometimes.  However I do like to read other points of views. I probably shouldn't have posted the David Duke comment. I apologize if I offended anyone.

Best,
Zulu

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Charlie Wilson's War / Conservatives Upset - 12/22/2007 3:00:25 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Ah, I gotcha. I see "undertones" sometimes (from the left, the right, center ) too, but I think Sanity (if that's who caught your eye) is a pretty decent guy, far as I know. Except he likes the Seahawks
 
Be well.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)
Profile   Post #: 40
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