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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 7:01:56 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I knew it wouldn't take long.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You know, most of the people who are in favor of "states' rights" seem to be in favor of the death penalty too.  So I'm waiting to see whether they log on and start telling us that New Jersey made a mistake.


L&M, I'm for states rights (The Tenth Amendment I think).
If N.J. wants to do that fine, I just won't go to N.J. anymore.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 12/16/2007 7:02:11 AM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 10:01:13 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Life in prison is pretty much a Death Sentence. No matter how it goes, the criminal will die sooner or later.



"On a long enough time line the survival rate of everyone drops to zero."

Tyler Durdenergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 10:07:59 AM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, but they haven't banned Trenton...so it's kind of a wash.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 11:06:25 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		A basic question for the pro death penalty types, how many innocents being executed is acceptable to you?

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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 11:12:56 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

Yeah, but they haven't banned Trenton...so it's kind of a wash.


LOL! There's a lady who works at the corner store here who's from Trenton.
She actually appologised when I teased her about it!
"Hey! I've been here for 13 years!"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 11:18:35 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

A basic question for the pro death penalty types, how many innocents being executed is acceptable to you?


It depends on who they are.
Are you talking about that Richard Ramirez "night stalker" guy?
Or John Wayne Gacy, or Ted Bundy?
There's people who actually think that they're "innocent."
Or how about those illegal aliens who murdered those three college students execution style? They could be "innocent" too, right?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 11:45:11 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

A basic question for the pro death penalty types, how many innocents being executed is acceptable to you?


It depends on who they are.
Are you talking about that Richard Ramirez "night stalker" guy?
Or John Wayne Gacy, or Ted Bundy?
There's people who actually think that they're "innocent."
Or how about those illegal aliens who murdered those three college students execution style? They could be "innocent" too, right?


popeye1250,

How about those alleged Al Qaeda you want to shoot on sight?

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 3:29:39 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		What about Girvies Davis? An illiterate man who supposedly wrote a note to deputies saying he wanted to confess and whose confession included confessing to several murders which others definitely did without his invlovement?

What about Odell Barnes? Convicted based on an eyewitness who claimed to have seen the crime over an hour before the victim reached the scene and blood on his clothes that was determined to have been intentionally planted by someone other than Barnes.

Or maybe the story of Ellis Felker? Executed for a crime that occured while he was under 24 hour police surveillance, for which another suspect has confessed and DNA evidence of the perpetrator was intentionally witheld from the defence, along with 'boxes and boxes' of other evidence, until a few days before the execution? Post execution testing by the state court concluded that Felker wasn't definitely excluded based on the DNA but did conclude the test would likely have resulted in a new trial for Felker if the test had been performed before Felker's execution.

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 3:43:32 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

A basic question for the pro death penalty types, how many innocents being executed is acceptable to you?


It depends on who they are.
Are you talking about that Richard Ramirez "night stalker" guy?
Or John Wayne Gacy, or Ted Bundy?
There's people who actually think that they're "innocent."
Or how about those illegal aliens who murdered those three college students execution style? They could be "innocent" too, right?


popeye1250,

How about those alleged Al Qaeda you want to shoot on sight?

Sinergy



Sinergy, if there was a way to actually find any I would.
It's funny about those savages, when they catch them they're not shy about telling people that they're al qeada.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/16/2007 5:19:05 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		I don’t shed a tear when they stick a needle into the arm of a Tim McVeigh or a John Wayne Gacy but I remain firmly against the death penalty due to the simple fact that it cannot be guaranteed that an innocent person won’t be executed. If we falsely put someone in prison for ten or twenty years that is horrific enough but at least we can let them go and still give them something of their life back. You can’t bring back the dead. The constitution clearly allows the death penalty but just because we can do something doesn’t mean we should.

Concerning States Rights, popeye said:
quote:


If N.J. wants to do that fine, I just won't go to N.J. anymore.


Thank you popeye for putting so succinctly what States Rights is all about – respect for other people’s rights. As it happens I don’t disagree with New Jersey on this one but if I did... well... it’s their State, they can run it how they want to. It’s not like they’re forcing anyone to live there.

Last thought...

If we really want to reduce crime the answer is public floggings. Think of it. You catch some twenty-year old punks robbing houses. After conviction you march them down to the public square where they are stripped down, strung up, and given twenty lashes. All the while the public has gathered around to hoot and holler and take pictures. Most punks will think twice about robbing houses again and society saves a lot of money from not having to lock then up for years on end.

Just a thought.

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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 4:30:18 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

If we really want to reduce crime the answer is public floggings.



Every submissive I have ever had wanted to be flogged in public.

Im not sure how this would reduce crime.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Marc2b)
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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 4:55:24 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Maybe not public floggings, but being in town square in stocks with a sign that says THIEF on it might do some good.  Put out a basket of rotten fruit, and let the games commence.  I know prison sentences certainly don't do a damn lick of good. 

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 5:04:38 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I don’t shed a tear when they stick a needle into the arm of a Tim McVeigh



McVeigh actually had the cajones to tell his attorney to not file the 7 standard appeals for one on death row and to instructed the court to put him to death as soon as possible.

The problem I have with the whole thing is best exemplified by the O J Simpson fiasco.  The police had him dead to rights for the murders, and still insisted on planting evidence to shore up their case. 

Would the police intentionally plant evidence resulting in the conviction of an innocent person?

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Marc2b)
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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 5:07:43 PM   
ArgoGeorgia


Posts: 256
Joined: 2/9/2007
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		I used to be very pro-death penalty.  But, a conflict in my conscience arose because of my firm distrust of most things government.  Lets face it, the government messes up - a lot.  Seems like every day you hear about SWAT teams kicking in the door of the wrong 'drug' house, someone being imprisoned for 10 years being set free because of mistaken eye witnesses, or college lacrosse teams being raked over the coals by an overzealous DA looking for votes.  I simply don't crust most aspects of the government to get things right, and it was this realization that made me pretty certain the government has messed up at the very least a few times on the death penalty.  And quite honestly, once is too much. 

Would I like to see prison reform?  Hell yeah.  For instance, make them earn their keep in some form or fashion.  Make them pay for themselves (but not allowing profit - simply economically neutral).  

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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 5:15:59 PM   
sexyred1


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Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


L&M, I'm for states rights (The Tenth Amendment I think).
If N.J. wants to do that fine, I just won't go to N.J. anymore.
I may have to drive through it occaisionally but I can gas up in Delaware and that would get me up to Conn.
I think they should have public hangings, I want to be able to see what my taxes are paying for.
And I don't think the death penalty serves as a "deterant" as some people would say but I don't think it's supposed to be either.
The state calls it "justice" I call it "revenge."


Cool. We are so over populated as it is and the traffic is such a bitch; I can hardly even find a parking spot at the mall and talk about trying to get Springsteen tickets, why just the other day, I spent 20 minutes online and finally got through!

So, no prob on not coming to NJ popeye!!

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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 6:04:14 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		one of the persons whos life was spared by this "wonderful" thing is the man that killed the child "megans law" is written for.....

im all for being 100% sure someone is guilty, and yes i know many will say you can never be 100% sure....but if someone confesses and their dna matches evidence, they are either guilty as hell or one dumb mofo for choosing the one crime to confess to that has the 1 in a 3.4 million chance dna code that can not eliminate them as a suspect. so do we really want them stealing our oxygen anyhow?

tell megans daddy how unfair the death penalty is......



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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 6:59:44 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArgoGeorgia

Would I like to see prison reform?  Hell yeah.  For instance, make them earn their keep in some form or fashion.  Make them pay for themselves (but not allowing profit - simply economically neutral).  



The problem I have with this is best exemplified by chain gangs during the depression.  Starving families were withheld jobs because state governments relied on imprisoned felons to perform work for free.

I would love to see prisoners work, I just dont think it is worth denying work to people who want to work.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to ArgoGeorgia)
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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 7:01:38 PM   
Zensee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberpet

You're damn right I want to see blood!  I believe in firm retribution for the victims. 


Would you say that if you or one of your loved ones was the innocent victim of a state sanctioned murder, based on a wrongful conviction? Is that a sacrifice for revenge you are personally wiling to make? If you can't answer this question with an enthusiastic YES, I'll take the rest of your words as empty and meaningless.

Any way it's not just about inhumanity towards a possibly "deserving" criminal, it's about us as a society retaining our humanity in the face of the worst provocations.


Z.


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RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 7:11:26 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

tell megans daddy how unfair the death penalty is......



Will The State killing him bring Megan back?  If the state ends up killing the wrong guy, will saying oops bring the wrong guy back?

Sinergy

p.s.  I am the most experienced mock assailant , according to my boss, for high school and child age children working on the planet.  Please do not attack me for not doing my part to end the cycle of violence against children.


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: NJ bans death penalty - 12/17/2007 8:36:25 PM   
DesertRat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee
Any way it's not just about inhumanity towards a possibly "deserving" criminal, it's about us as a society retaining our humanity in the face of the worst provocations.


Yes, that's what it's about. Exactly. About striving to be better instead of lowering ourselves to the level of drooling knuckledraggers.

Bob

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

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