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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/15/2007 8:32:56 PM

Willowmoon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Forced segregation is never a good idea in the end. However, I DO think it would be an excellent idea for humans to have communication classes, which include things like setting personal boundaries and healthy conflict resolution, right along with math and reading would make a HUGE improvement on us as a whole.

Master Fire

In Australia we do have those kind of communication classes in high school. Honestly I don't think the classes make much difference to the way the majoirty of teens act.

Willow

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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/15/2007 8:38:07 PM

OrrisKitten

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Willowmoon

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Forced segregation is never a good idea in the end. However, I DO think it would be an excellent idea for humans to have communication classes, which include things like setting personal boundaries and healthy conflict resolution, right along with math and reading would make a HUGE improvement on us as a whole.

Master Fire

In Australia we do have those kind of communication classes in high school. Honestly I don't think the classes make much difference to the way the majoirty of teens act.

Willow

there are programs in the US as well that work on these ideas, if anyone wants more info you can message me on the Other Side. Problem is, with the Board of Ed. we can't get it into schools. Yay politics.

not to mention keeping the same system which spent so much time oppressing people, I wonder if public education in the states can ever really work under the system we are in. But thats another talk for another place.

[edited it because I am slow and types my response in the middle of the quote. Oopsie!]

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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/16/2007 5:45:24 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrrisKitten

there are programs in the US as well that work on these ideas, if anyone wants more info you can message me on the Other Side. Problem is, with the Board of Ed. we can't get it into schools. Yay politics.

not to mention keeping the same system which spent so much time oppressing people, I wonder if public education in the states can ever really work under the system we are in. But thats another talk for another place.

I'm not saying this is the case with a particular program you may have in mind, but the fact is that many such "well intentioned" and seemingly inoccuous programs (by name) are simply political agendas in themselves (by content) and do not deserve the rubber stamp of official approval to be included in public schools.

Many folks are of the opinion that schools need to do a far better job of schooling, and leave the parenting to parents. If some kids receive inadequate parenting, that's just proof that life isn't fair. Address their family deficiencies on a focused basis, rather than assuming parental rights for everyone.

John

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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/16/2007 5:47:29 AM

TysGalilah

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deciding and teaching a child which orientation to follow?
   isn't that a little presumptious ?
isn't that for the person themselves to discover on their own.
make me think ( yes a little dramatic but still ) about a doctor deciding which gender to assign to a baby born with both sexes genitalia...

even the basic personality of a child interacting with other children> is really not a solid indication of what "role" they will feel comfortable in/with later on in adult lives and in their relationship dynamics.   imo.
how many leader-type children ( female and male ) end up desiring submissive roles in this lifestyle.?   many would be my guess.

inter-dependance and independance and dependancy.
for me
this falls under the same category in my brain that can differentiate the difference between:
being controlled vs being with someone in control  or giving someone else the control I already possess for myself.

being taken care of vs being cared for and about   vs wanting to be cared for because I can't take care of myself.

being needy vs needing vs  the insecure ( and fear based) need to feel needed

they come from different parts of the emotional make-up and can be a good thing or a bad thing..healthy or unhealthy....depending.

as a s-type
I would not have understood the difference between a healthy ds or ms relationship dynamic UNTIL
I myself had experienced >
my own sense of self
my own sense of independance
felt and knew control of my own life
could express my own strength and desires/needs/wants ( and knew the difference for me to a certain degree).

I don't think I want my children or my grandchildren ( or anyone elses for that matter ) to miss out on that personal journey of self-awareness   because they have been taught in school " where their journal was to end up" ( according to WHO btw???? )

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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/16/2007 6:05:11 AM

TNstepsout

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IMO you are missing a big piece of the puzzle here, and that is that people are not strictly Dominant or submissive. Many people in submissive relationships are, in their professional life, holding very Dominant jobs and responsibilities. It is in relationships, domestically and sexually, that they are most fulfilled as submissive. These same people might be very Dominant with the employees under their management and submissive to the bosses that manage them. There are, within that continuum, people who are simply so strongly wired one way or the other, that they are so uncomfortable being subordinate, or being dominant, that they seek the same role in social interactions everywhere, but I think those are the minority.

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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/16/2007 9:09:54 PM

MasterFireMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Willowmoon

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Forced segregation is never a good idea in the end. However, I DO think it would be an excellent idea for humans to have communication classes, which include things like setting personal boundaries and healthy conflict resolution, right along with math and reading would make a HUGE improvement on us as a whole.

Master Fire

In Australia we do have those kind of communication classes in high school. Honestly I don't think the classes make much difference to the way the majoirty of teens act.

Willow

In my opinion, the problem there is that they wait until High School. We need to start in Pre-school while personalities are still being formed.

Master Fire

< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 12/16/2007 9:10:29 PM >

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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/16/2007 11:21:41 PM

CuriousLord

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I just don't think D/s is as universal or as elemental to existence as this idea seems to assume it as being.

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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/17/2007 12:06:28 AM

hisannabelle

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greetings ryugen,

prefacing this by saying that i have not read all of the replies, i completely disagree with whatever the heck it is you want to implement as a social plan, but commenting on the rest of it...

i do believe independence is incredibly important. i was 17 when my mother died (i grew up with her), and had just turned 18 when my father died. i was very lucky to have graduated high school a year early (a few months before my mom passed), otherwise i would probably either be dead or homeless at this point - i would not have known how to deal with things. those few months of moving out and learning how to support myself are one of the few reasons why i am still here. had i still been in high school and living at home, i would have been incapable of managing my life, and i would be nowhere near as self-sufficient as i am today.

i do believe very strongly in interdependence and in relying on others and caring for others, but out of one's own heart, not out of the social model you have proposed - yes, i do think the individualism of our society is wrong, but this is not the way to fix it, in my opinion. on top of that, what you have proposed is based on particular roles assigned to dominant and submissive that are not accurate in most relationships (and forcing people into them will not make them work any better), and you have reduced each whole person into a "half." to me it is very important that he is a whole person with his own ability to manage things, his own thoughts, emotions, etc. and that i am as well - not that we need each other to exist. that, to me, is what independence is. it's possible to be both independent and constructively interdependent, and not just with my master - but not in the way you've described. quite honestly, i see your system as extremely codependent, which i believe is a completely unhealthy model of society.

respectfully,
annabelle.

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RE: Independance or Inter-dependancy? - 12/17/2007 4:45:52 AM

batshalom

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~Fast Reply~

Teaching people within their D/s roles? That's a lot like the caste system, and there's a reason (or many reasons) the caste system didn't work. People change.

Just because I am a sub does not mean I do not know how to be independent. I am not "the body" to a D-type's "brain." I choose D-types who expect me to have (and to use) my own brain, and who expect me to know when to turn my brain off and simply act on a command. To that end, where would be the satisfaction of "Dominating" someone who ran on auto pilot all the time? Where is the satisfaction in controlling an educated automaton?

What would happen to a sub educated at your sub school if she didn't know how to be independent? What about when her D-type dies or leaves her holding the bag with several kids, no job skills, and no experience at taking care of herself?

There is, however, a sort of school that teaches us how to be subs and Doms and switches. It's called life. We get through the best we can. We live, learn, and pass it on to those who wish to emulate us. We try things and we fail, and so we learn lessons and do better next time. Heartache and heartbreak and effort and sweat are just part of living, in D/s and in vanilla. Accomplishment is part of the joy of living.

< Message edited by batshalom -- 12/17/2007 4:56:19 AM >

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