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RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/12/2007 10:01:26 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
It is not the people who took out the mortgages who are being ripped off it is the renters. The people who gave a security deposit , pay their rent on time each month only to get evicted once the property is foreclosed upon.

Instead of credit checks on renters here, the renters are doing credit checks on the Property Owners now!


You know, I never considered aspect of the problem. I'm now interested to learn how prevalent this is and what, if any, consideration will be given to those in that circumstance.

One thing that may have a huge monetary impact is how the security deposit would be considered if the property owner files Bankruptcy, common when there is foreclosure proceedings initiated. I wonder if, under the new Bankruptcy code, a renter's security deposit would be considered an "asset" subject to liquidation? Would the renter have to file a claim with the Trustee to get those funds back? If that's the case it will take time to get those funds back. If it's not the case, the renter would be in line with the other unsecured creditors making a claim. At the very least - it will take a long time to see a refund in any amount, and if the property owner has no capital you may have a lien and a interest, but getting any of that money back may be problematic.

Meanwhile, the property owner received the tax benefit from writing off the interest paid to the mortgage company, real estate taxes, and property depreciation.

Yeah - all you renters out there should be lobbying to bail out these poor, "ripped off" property owners with the tax money you paid at a higher rate because you didn't benefit from the property owners tax deductions. Why not? - At least it's consistent with electing people who can't wait to spend more of your money on  failed social engineering and other wealth re-distribution programs.

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/12/2007 2:12:38 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
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I hope everyone realizes there was a digression there above, the real ripoff is taking place at a much higher level. The point of this thread is to reveal that higher level corruption and not to worry about whether people should have taken those mortgages out or not.

The solutions being bandied about are protection schemes for the lenders, not the borrowers...

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/12/2007 2:28:42 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

The solutions being bandied about are protection schemes for the lenders, not the borrowers...



I agree.  Gotta love the "I invest more wisely than you" attitudes around here.  If only everyone were as smart as me, eh?

Buyer beware?  Absolutely.  But when presented with a seemingly viable option at a time when the market has been rising steadily, I can see where a variable mortgage would seem reasonable at the time.  I did it on a re-fi years ago, and it worked out for me.  I didn't do it on a second re-fi.  I am still foreclosing, but for divorce reasons, not variable rate mortgage reasons.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/12/2007 10:11:52 PM   
Termyn8or


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There is too much to this for rough generalization. Does everyone who gets ripped off deserve to ? We mortals cannot answer that.

Do some ? Yes. To clarify, let me give you a hypothetical scenario.

You have a bank, they cash/deposit your paychecks, you write checks all that, and everything is fine, except that you rent. One day, you might have a few grand amassed, and you decide it would be a good time to but a house and build your own equity instead of someone else's. So one day you walk in to a loan officer and get prequalified.

A company who has dealt relatively fairly with you for years says you can buy a house up to $170,000. Wow, can get a nice place. They give you the rates and what your payment will be, unless you go ARM.

But then you see on the TV that a payment for a much more expensive house is not much more. Say double and it is only another hundred a month. For now.

So to suck you in, they'll give you one hell of a rate, maybe 2.9%, but it goes to something ridiculous when the introductory period is over. They might let you pay interest only for the first few years as well, there are loans like that. But after say three to seven years the introductory rate, well it introduces you to the rate, which is the near usurious credit card rates. Now I don't really mind paying that higher rate for like $25,000 or even $50,000, but when you gets to $300,000 there is no way.

There are two reasons they do this. One is that banks know that money is useless and it is the worst investment in the country. The whole investment industry in this country is based on that. Get your money out of money and into something useful or at least paying, hedging the ubiquitous inflation, which is actually deflation of the currency. Currency is the worst thing to have. So they want property.

In other words the bank considers your house money in the bank, and when they fuck you over, they get it back, all of it. They have had you there as a serf, mainaining the place, keeping the gas on so the pipes don't freeze, even remodeling and doing improvements, all of which they get for free. It's a sweet deal for them. They don't worry all that much about you wrecking the place, because they gave you the illusion of ownership.

Read that last line again, I just did.

There is alot more to this system than they teach in the schools. It all works together to make the rich richer, and guess where that comes from. Us.

So now Bush is trying to look good by putting a moratorium on end of introductory rates. First of all, he simply does not have the authority to do so, but then.........

These people signed contracts. If they knew how to read, they would already know that their house payment was going to go from $565 to $1675 per month. They got no money down, about $110 in equity for the five years they were there if they are lucky, and NO, it is not fair. But that is how it is.

But they signed a contract. Maybe they can't read and understand, but they burned up their credit, and for nothing. And they do not get a chance to try again and do it right, like buy a house that is within their means, that they can afford, hopefully with a fixed rate. They done burnt their credit to a crisp. And chapter seven bankruptcy is fond memory now.

But we HAVE TO HAVE THIS HOUSE. Look here hun, we CAN afford it ! People can't say no.

And what's a new ivory tower without plasma TV, a home theater, surround sound, wifi, wii, cable modem, a pool, a den, a sunroom, vaulted cielings and of course some pets, perhaps a horse. It will be the best Christmas ever because you still have credit cards.

And then five years from then you have the worst Christmas ever.

Was it worth it ? Some actually say yes. Others are stupid. What else can I say ? A fool and his money soon go seperate ways, and it has been that way since the dawn of maney. What would you have me do about it ?

T

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 4:57:53 AM   
subfever


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quote:

Was it worth it ? Some actually say yes. Others are stupid. What else can I say ? A fool and his money soon go seperate ways, and it has been that way since the dawn of maney. What would you have me do about it ?


Do you mean what would I have you do about it, if you were in power to change anything?

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 6:00:42 AM   
TNstepsout


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Joined: 8/3/2005
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I work in an industry that is kind of an offshoot to the housing industry and I have watched this all unfold firsthand. I think it's simplistic to label any one group as greedy, or victims of the greedy, when ALL of them played a part, all the way down to the homeowner. Millions of homeowners were able to get into homes that they couldn't really afford. Are they victims? Many of them were able to live in the homes for at least a couple of years before it was foreclosed, sometimes at monthly rates far less than I am paying to rent my apartment. In most cases they paid NOTHING to get into the house except for some closing costs. So what did they lose? Did they lose a down payment they spent years scraping together so they could buy a piece of the American Dream? No. Did they lose years worth of equity they diligently spent years acquiring as they faithfully made their payments? No. Credit rating? Well they obviously didn't have that to begin with.

So how are they victims?

The housing industry caused our economy to boom for several years. One estimate puts the housing industry (and associated companies) at 40% of the new jobs for the past 5 years. So the economy as a whole benefited from this housing explosion. All that easy credit out there made for lots of extra money being spent in other industries and that created even more jobs, better pay etc....

But it was a house of cards because it all fell on the shoulders of home values that could not continue to increase forever and homeowners that were poor credit risks. So who should have seen it coming? The same thing has already happened in other countries so it's not as if it was a big secret. Money makers had to know because they have the education and experience, but they wanted to make the easy money so they weren't going to tell. Homeowners? Well they aren't going to complain because they are getting the "home of their dreams".

So who should have known better?


(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 7:02:54 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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Federal Regulators.

_____________________________

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(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 12:20:05 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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TNstepsout:

I think "oops!" doesn't quite make it as an apology for all of this financial shenanigans. And getting to live in a home for a couple of years doesn't quite stack up next to getting to keep a home in the Hamptons, does it? It's nice to have friends that write the laws such that outright thievery is converted into the mere vagaries of the financial markets.

And the taxpayer at large is supposed to foot the bill? I don't think so.

Go back to high school, beauty school dropout...

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 1:35:36 PM   
Cuffkinks


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Joined: 5/5/2004
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I have no sympathy for the people who bought more than they could afford with these ARM's and interest-only loans and I don't feel that I, as a taxpayer, should have to bail them out. I bought a condo just over three years ago. Did I take one of those ARM's or an interest-only loan and pay a low teaser rate for the first few years? NO. Am I worried that I'm going to lose My home now? NO. I bought a simple one-bedroom / one-bathroom / one-car garage condo because that's all I could afford at the time. I got a fixed rate 30 year mortgage at a good rate because I used common sense. Sure, I could have gone the other route and bought Myself the big house that I wanted. I was getting (and still am) solicitations in the mail everyday for ARM's and interest-only loans with low teaser rates, but I acted responsibly. And to all those who didn't...You read the contract, you signed the contract.You knew what you were doing. So...As the saying goes:
"You made your bed...now you lie in it." I resent the idea of having My tax dollars used to bail you out.


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(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 3:00:38 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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Cuffkinks:

Aim higher. Is it so hard to hit a target floating away on a golden parachute?

(in reply to Cuffkinks)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 5:33:54 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

TNstepsout:

I think "oops!" doesn't quite make it as an apology for all of this financial shenanigans. And getting to live in a home for a couple of years doesn't quite stack up next to getting to keep a home in the Hamptons, does it? It's nice to have friends that write the laws such that outright thievery is converted into the mere vagaries of the financial markets.

And the taxpayer at large is supposed to foot the bill? I don't think so.

Go back to high school, beauty school dropout...


I gotta wonder if you are reading the same post I wrote. Where's the oops? And who's talking about anything stacking up to anything else? Who cares if one person got bloody rich off the market and another one just got to live in a nice house for cheap for a couple of years. They both got something. What did I get?

What did you get?

That's what I'm talking about. Why should the people who got nothing bail out the ones that got something? I can tell you one other thing (even though I'm just a beauty school drop out) No one gives a rats ass about the homeowners. The only reason there is any kind of bail out is to protect the big financial institutions from Bankruptcy and to avoid a nasty collapse of the economy. You know, those financial collapses are terribly inconvenient in an election year.

Yes, "it's nice to have friends to write laws that make theivery into vagaries of the law". But that's how it works. That's how it has always worked and that's how it always will work.

I learned that in Beauty School 101.





(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 7:15:39 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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Well, then we generally agree, Pink Lady.

Does no one get these Grease refs any more?

(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 7:35:38 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Well, then we generally agree, Pink Lady.

Does no one get these Grease refs any more?


Grease? What's that? Must be old school.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/13/2007 8:12:58 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Well, then we generally agree, Pink Lady.

Does no one get these Grease refs any more?


Grease? What's that? Must be old school.


--->  I am sooooo old school.
TN  you seem to be very knowledgeable about this subject and I enjoy reading
your thoughts on this subject.
I agree with all that are saying no one really gives a rat's ass what happens to the homeowners
that are going under.
 

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(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Mortgage Meltdown - 12/14/2007 5:08:32 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Well, then we generally agree, Pink Lady.

Does no one get these Grease refs any more?


Thanks MzMia. I wish I could take credit for figuring it all out myself, but most of this was explained to me by a guy I work with. His background is in finance and the stock market (although that has nothing to do with the job he currently holds) and when I started the job there he began to fill me in on his prediction of the future. He was right on. That was almost 3 years ago but he could already see the signs of impending doom in the sub-prime industry.

It has been interesting (altough disturbing) to see everything unfold exactly as predicted. He's a smart cookie.
Grease? What's that? Must be old school.


--->  I am sooooo old school.
TN  you seem to be very knowledgeable about this subject and I enjoy reading
your thoughts on this subject.
I agree with all that are saying no one really gives a rat's ass what happens to the homeowners
that are going under.
 

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 35
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