Mortgage Meltdown (Full Version)

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SugarMyChurro -> Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 8:47:01 AM)

Mortgage Meltdown
Interest rate 'freeze' - the real story is fraud
Bankers pay lip service to families while scurrying to avert suits, prison

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/09/IN5BTNJ2V.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2007/12/09/IN5BTNJ2V.DTL&o=0

-----

Watch how the looting happens. Remind of you of any time in the past 20-30 years or so? Only worse, right?

And so it goes...




LadyEllen -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:02:55 AM)

I would guess that a lot of the institutions which could sue will be British, since "financial services" (aka usurious scum) is our main industry, and as ever our government will be persuaded to persuade our usurious scum not to sue US usurious scum for sake of the "special relationship", and let Brits suffer for the sake of the fortunes of the guilty.

Islamic banking looks more and more attractive, dontchathink? Wonder if I could buy stock?

E




subfever -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:11:28 AM)

Business as usual sanctioned by our business-as-usual government. 




pahunkboy -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:18:51 AM)

corporate governance is - well people governance. the laws which rule, and control our life are meted out by corporate czars. this system is not to be tampered with or even questioned.  a person under this type of controllership would be under treatment of a psychiatrist. however a system has no such fix. of course the answer is no bid contracts and legislation written by the fox at the chicken house.   KILL!   dissent is reduced down to coke vs pepsi. public resources are privatized. denying the rightful owners of it.  to this end- send missionaries to India and China spreading the unionize now gospel.




subfever -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:21:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

corporate governance is - well people governance. the laws which rule, and control our life are meted out by corporate czars. this system is not to be tampered with or even questioned.  a person under this type of controllership would be under treatment of a psychiatrist. however a system has no such fix. of course the answer is no bid contracts and legislation written by the fox at the chicken house.   KILL!   dissent is reduced down to coke vs pepsi. public resources are privatized. denying the rightful owners of it.  to this end- send missionaries to India and China spreading the unionize now gospel.


And we want to spread "democracy" around the world... [sm=biggrin.gif]




popeye1250 -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:24:29 AM)

It's kind of reminisient of the S&L scandal in the late 80's early 90's.
One thing all these scemes have in common no matter how they're "packaged" is that they all involve Taxpayer Dollars somehow!
You have a small group of people who make a lot of money from them then, when they go south the Taxpayers get to "make good" on the losses!
They *all* want to involve Taxpayer money.
We need people in Washington who will actually look out for the Taxpayers' interests.
As a Taxpayer I don't want to be "partners" with a savings and loan or mortgage company.
I'm not out here to bail those companies out.
Again, whenever you hear the term; "Business and government partnering together" it means that you're about to get screwed!
"The more they protested their innocense the faster we counted the silverware."

GO RON PAUL!




subfever -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:31:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We need people in Washington who will actually look out for the Taxpayers' interests.



Forget about treating symptoms and more band-aids. What we need is a new banking system and a new monetary system altogether. And no tax on labor, so the IRS must go too.  




popeye1250 -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:39:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We need people in Washington who will actually look out for the Taxpayers' interests.



Forget about treating symptoms and more band-aids. What we need is a new banking system and a new monetary system altogether. And no tax on labor, so the IRS must go too.  


I agree with that too.
We could have a National consumption tax instead of the I.R.S.
But, you know that the rich will fight that as they "consume" more than the average person.




pahunkboy -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:52:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

corporate governance is - well people governance. the laws which rule, and control our life are meted out by corporate czars. this system is not to be tampered with or even questioned.  a person under this type of controllership would be under treatment of a psychiatrist. however a system has no such fix. of course the answer is no bid contracts and legislation written by the fox at the chicken house.   KILL!   dissent is reduced down to coke vs pepsi. public resources are privatized. denying the rightful owners of it.  to this end- send missionaries to India and China spreading the unionize now gospel.


And we want to spread "democracy" around the world... [sm=biggrin.gif]



I wonder if we have reached the tipping point. I seen on Lou Dobbs how companies advertise for workers they dont need- simply to qualify to import cheap workers. This is more commen then they let on.

What generation of poeple would allow tainted food and lead toys?  It is noboddies fault.  Are people really this dumb?

-ok- so go into bedt on credit card to buy junk; the junk itself is in a garbage dump before the debt is paid off. the worker takes a lower wage job due to globalization; living 2 paychecks from financial ruin. then if they are ruined the law wont help in a bankrupsty- as "reform" reformed it.  

then we have subsities paid to oil and coal- obsceen oil profits, and war profiteering. a grossly polluted world- processed foods which sell more pills for ailments.

this is "feedom" ?

blow me.




popeye1250 -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 11:48:10 AM)

PaHunk, I agree.
And just HOW do the Taxpayers benefit by "partnering" with these big companies?
The answer is that we don't!
What business (couldn't) "succeed" if the Taxpayers bailed them out?
They want a built-in "garauntee" but don't want to share any of the profits.
I think that the best thing (I) can do about it is to *NOT BUY* any of this cheap, plastic, dangerous junk from China to start.
Anyone who buys those toys or clothes from China is nuts.
For gifts this Christmas I am buying all "Locally Made" things.




farglebargle -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 11:59:47 AM)

Remember, the only thing the banking system has to offer is the illusion of stability. Once that's gone, the whole pack of lies collapses, and a lot of people are royally fucked.

It might be long past a lot of people getting royally fucked, btw. But that's another discussion, I think...





pahunkboy -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 1:31:48 PM)

Hello Popeye- yes!

We [business and govt] are partners up to the point of cash. Then corps offshore any fair tax....so as to have it both ways. If a consumer dr shops or gets meds from overseas- thats wrong-bad- unsafe.  but- so- they make it so the med pushers cant be sued in the name of prices... 'they" can shop around.  the peon cant....it isnt "safe"
lets ask my lady friend who lost her cat to tainted food. all these lead toys will end up in landfills. making them worse. and beofre interest is done on it.

the thing is corporations CAN be de-charterred. it is rare- but it can happen

so- i get my hair cut local. not a chain. buy pproduce from the farmer -or where i know they deal local.




Termyn8or -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 6:11:09 PM)

"Business and government partnering together"

Don't use the C word. Don't do it, it is not a conspiracy. I swear it isn't, because I don't want the jackbooted thugs at my door.

It is not a conspiracy, it is a partnerdhip that benefits the American people. You see money is the root of all evil and as long as they take it all away we will be good. See how that works ?

They get rich and make us poor for our own good. Don't you see that ? If you don't see it that way you are a conspiracy theorist, and might need psychiactric help.

Seek help immediately is you think they do not love us, and want us to do well. Their selfless accumulation of wealth is amazing.  How could they be so benevolent to do this for us ?

Give until it hurts, oh wait, it already hurts. See how the are helping us build character ?

T




awmslave -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 8:45:00 PM)

I confess it is hard for me to see the problem: people make bad loan decisions all the time. Why should anybody be bailed out? Why should we care? Let them learn from their mistakes. Loosing money is not a crime.  US population can not afford  60% families  house ownership.




UtopianRanger -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 9:46:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Mortgage Meltdown
Interest rate 'freeze' - the real story is fraud
Bankers pay lip service to families while scurrying to avert suits, prison

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/09/IN5BTNJ2V.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2007/12/09/IN5BTNJ2V.DTL&o=0

-----

Watch how the looting happens. Remind of you of any time in the past 20-30 years or so? Only worse, right?

And so it goes...



Excellent articles.

Here is the Goldman-Sachs report that speaks to California's vastly overvalued housing market. I was going to post it the other day---for Rich--- in another thread but I've been out of town.

california-valuations.pdf (application/pdf Object)

Keep in mind the Goldman-Sachs analysis is actually a conservative one.....It really doesn’t take into consideration some of the additional variables I mentioned in the other thread. I actually think the median home price in the state could see a correction that takes it down below 300k before its all said and done.

 If we end up with another one of these ''free-market freaks'' as our next President, and more outsourcing, more H1visas rule the day --- Look the fuck out.

One other additional comment :

If we're going to throw some crooks in jail -- Greenspan should be the first to go. He/they knew and let this happen when they engineered the deregulation of the banking industry. There's a great youtube video out there where he's questioned about this at length, and he's just speechless.

But guess what.....few if anyone at all will go to jail---These people take care of their own.



- R




Termyn8or -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/11/2007 10:38:16 PM)

I had a buddy named Jim. I was at his house one day and he had the news going. On it was a story about an 80 year old taken for alot of money by a 20 year old. Of course she was going to marry him, but hadn't. At first I was taken a bit aback by the fact that Jim expressed absolutley no sympathy for the old guy.

The way he put it set me straight, if this guy is this stupid now, imagine the doofus he was before. That sunk in, and now to the point.

This is why they teach math in school. You buy a $100,000 dollar house at 12 % per annum. I only use these figures because they are easy, if your credit sucks so bad to have to pay 12, you should probably not do it.

Now simple math tells you that the first month's interest is $1,000. Anybody with a brain knows you must pay a bit more to amortize the loan. I saw it advertised, something like a $250,000 mortgage for $500 something a month. Come on, this is ridiculous. If you think this is a good deal I got this oceanfront property in Kansas.

Can't use Arizona any more, it might come true. If California really does ever fall into the ocean, AZ might be the place to be, next.

You have a $30,000 car, the payments are like $150 per month. Just what equity do people think they are gaining ? Or is it that they just don't care.

It seems like ownership is being phased out more and more, That is the trend.

My Uncle beat the system, he was to trade in his truck, and the price was stated on the lease that he was coming off of. He spoke of the low mileage and the lack of damage, but it all fell on deaf ears. He paid the truck off with a credit card, took it to another dealership and made a few grand on it. This time he bought, and paid off the card once the loan was in effect. That Man taught me alot.

I mean we are way ahead of the Carleton Sheets thing. The only problem is that in this economy it isn't worth doing. On three hundred grand worth of property we owe less than fifty. At one time, we borrowed TWICE the purchase price of the house. We are not babes in the woods. I would see this shit on TV and say SHUTUP, SHUTUP, SHUTUP !

Right now, the way the economy is, go ahead and buy yourself a plce, if you can REALLY afford it, and you want it. Don't expect to make any money, buy the house that suits you. But do not buy the house you can barely afford, buy the one you can afford more easily. You should buy no more than what 65% of what your credit will allow. That is my advice. Take it or leave it, but if you leave it, be ready to move.

Now we have Bush saving homeowners by declaring that banks can't execute a clause in their contract with their debtors, that they can't raise the interest to what the contract states after the introductory rate. This is compeletely unConstitutional when it comes to people, but banks are involved in commerce. This is pretty much akin to Nixon's wage and price freeze.

Fact is, in the grand scheme of things it does not mean shit. If you do not pay the lender, you lose your stuff, it really is that simple. Unless you can prove the they saddled you with unfair charges, you don't have a leg to stand on. Remember the guy you bought the house from ? Well someone wrote the check and gave it to them. You did not. As such they have a right to expect their money back according to the agreement.

I have very little sympathy for those who make $1,500 a month and take on an $800 mortgage payment.We need to be smarter than that.

All the current situation has done is to put more property in the hands of bankers. Just like during the "reconstruction". History does indeed repeat itself, if allowed.

Be careful out there.

T




SugarMyChurro -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/12/2007 1:40:13 AM)

I just want to understand your point, Termy: someone deserves to be ripped off because he can be? How does that differ from law of the jungle? What is the point of civilization if it's all just legalized economic warfare against the poor?




LadyEllen -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/12/2007 7:42:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

I just want to understand your point, Termy: someone deserves to be ripped off because he can be? How does that differ from law of the jungle? What is the point of civilization if it's all just legalized economic warfare against the poor?



Well, I have to admit - the law of the jungle is exactly how it is. The whole idea of the game is to fuck over as many as one can for as much as one can, and if theyre so stupid they dont know that, then they deserve to get fucked over. If theyre a bit smarter, then one simply complicates things until they dont get it, and then one fucks them over.

I tried to do business fairly for years you know? But it makes no difference as the more honest and honourable one appears, the more one is suspected of actually being underhand, hiding the next fucking over, rather than being honest and honourable. In the end one has to conform to the way things are to get anywhere - and the way things are is that everyone expects you to fuck them over, every time.

E




Mercnbeth -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/12/2007 8:00:58 AM)

quote:

I just want to understand your point, Termy: someone deserves to be ripped off because he can be?

Sug,
No the point is a person should be allowed to make a decision that results in him being "ripped off". The information is disclosed. Choosing to ignore it was the choice made. Whether he was "ripped off" at the time is a matter of perspective.

Using the subject at hand; the mortgagee saw the 'teaser rate' as a means to a ends of getting the house he really couldn't afford but wanted anyway. Why is that now considered being "ripped off" when the consequence of rising rates was documented clearly in the loan documents?

Would you prefer a situation where the government takes away your decision and determines what you can and can't afford? You would like to take away more personal responsibility and replace it with government oversight? I don't.

No - he doesn't deserve to be "ripped off" however in this case he wasn't. He made a decision. The people who would be ripped off would be those who weren't party to that decision, didn't benefit by it as he did, albeit temporarily, and are now as taxpayers, asked to make it right.

I'm very tired of being "ripped off" by paying taxes which are used in an attempt to make other people not have to deal with the consequences of their personal decisions. I'll never feel a person who made a decision was "ripped off" by the results of that decision. You can't legislate against stupidity, and no government should try.




kisshou -> RE: Mortgage Meltdown (12/12/2007 9:44:53 AM)

It is not the people who took out the mortgages who are being ripped off it is the renters. The people who gave a security deposit , pay their rent on time each month only to get evicted once the property is foreclosed upon.

Instead of credit checks on renters here, the renters are doing credit checks on the Property Owners now!




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