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RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 10:45:39 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		jali,

well tommorrow has arrived and you have vented yourself dry.You perhaps assume sexual abuse but perhaps it did not exist. You father, and this is conjecture, may well have felt that he let his temper get the best of him with his kids and resorted to too much corporal punishment. Then having realiized that he was forcing his little girl from him did his overt sorry reoutine.

Often conficts tween father and daughters rise from allowing the "daddy's little girl" opportunity slip away and it brings anger on both sides.

Just the thoughts of CP

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 1:47:36 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		I came back on this morning so I could raed any replies after I went to bed..thankyou all :)

quote:

You perhaps assume sexual abuse but perhaps it did not exist.


Man I got mad reading that line, was like this fire raging up inside me...fuck ..and I always was daddies little girl..yeah...........if he wasnt fucking dead I would kill him now...sorry but that line just made me so mad.




_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 2:04:55 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

YOU need an attitude adjustment. YOU own YOU not your father or anyone else. What happened in the past is already water under the bridge. You can not bring it back and change it. So FUCK it.  Move on. I do know what im talking about and you can move on. 


That pretty much what Master said when I told him (but he did add "if he was alive id go kick his ass for you")..and I do agree. But the thing is I can intellectually understand taht..but that understanding isnt going deep enough, I can ignore the rage and focus on the here and now, but it doesnt release it. I'm not a sorrowful selfpity party person and I have recreated my life on more than one occassion..but I'm starting to feel weary...a lot of things have happened..this last little revelation is like the straw thats breaking the camels back.



_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to SleeplessGypsy)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 2:13:46 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		No one can tell you how to deal with this.

I think you answered your own question when you said.......you forgave him after he died.

It's done, and there is no undoing it. Now you need to forgive yourself as well-even though you wee the wronged one. Second guessing "maybes" won't solve anything either-it will only bring more pain.

From what I can gather-you see a connection from the past to your present. And that may be where the anger comes from.

Can you honestly see the differences between then and now?

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 2:37:56 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

YOU need an attitude adjustment. YOU own YOU not your father or anyone else. What happened in the past is already water under the bridge. You can not bring it back and change it. So FUCK it.  Move on. I do know what im talking about and you can move on.  


This advice is actually quite contrary to what most professionals will tell you about healthy resolution of sexual assault and childhood issues. 

Anger is most times fear.  You don't feel safe as you're dealing with this, it's ok to be angry, it's ok to "wallow", it's ok to cry, it's ok to do whatever you need to do to feel safe and work through this to be healthy.  It's not so easy as saying I'm just going to be over it.

Until you find a way to resolve it, it's going to be with you and negative.  Find a good professional and let them help you process it and put the blame where it belongs, which is not on you or your brother.  I learned the hard way you cannot merely "adjust your attitude" and "move on" and carried my crap with me until it ate me up because so many well-meaning people told me that.  I've also seen the results of that approach on many people on a professional basis.  Please don't do that or listen to anyone that tells you it's simple and just get over it.  You can't just "get over" serious childhood trauma anymore than you can "just get over" a serious car accident. 

Trusting a therapist is hard, I know.  However, therapy is kind of like dating in that you don't have to pick someone you're not comfortable with, keep shopping until you find the person that feels like a friend that you want to talk to even if it starts out with simple conversation.

Good luck to you, 

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 2:41:30 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

quote:

YOU need an attitude adjustment. YOU own YOU not your father or anyone else. What happened in the past is already water under the bridge. You can not bring it back and change it. So FUCK it.  Move on. I do know what im talking about and you can move on. 


That pretty much what Master said when I told him (but he did add "if he was alive id go kick his ass for you")..and I do agree. But the thing is I can intellectually understand taht..but that understanding isnt going deep enough, I can ignore the rage and focus on the here and now, but it doesnt release it. I'm not a sorrowful selfpity party person and I have recreated my life on more than one occassion..but I'm starting to feel weary...a lot of things have happened..this last little revelation is like the straw thats breaking the camels back.




You cannot change what has happened.  The past is just that---past.

What you CAN do is choose what happens next.  You cannot wish the pain away, nor can you ignore it, but you can choose what to make of it.  You can choose to let the anger consume you, or not.

It happened.  It was wrong.  It is over and done with.  Somehow, you must find your way to this realization.  Then you can stop looking back at this horrible experience and once again look forward.


_____________________________



(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 3:05:08 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Dnomyar's words were overly harsh and unnecessarily angry, but, speaking from personal experience, there's more useful truth in them than in most of what "professionals" have to say.

The reality is that one does not "get over" a trauma, whether from childhood or more recent memory.  Every event in our lives is a part of who we are, as essential as the limbs of our bodies.  They do not leave us, ever.  We cannot escape those traumas; all we can do is make peace with them.

Each of us has the power to choose.  How we respond to a hurt, how we process anger--these are choices we make, and they are choices we have the power to own.  No one, not even the most vile abuser, can take that power from us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

YOU need an attitude adjustment. YOU own YOU not your father or anyone else. What happened in the past is already water under the bridge. You can not bring it back and change it. So FUCK it.  Move on. I do know what im talking about and you can move on.  


This advice is actually quite contrary to what most professionals will tell you about healthy resolution of sexual assault and childhood issues. 

Anger is most times fear.  You don't feel safe as you're dealing with this, it's ok to be angry, it's ok to "wallow", it's ok to cry, it's ok to do whatever you need to do to feel safe and work through this to be healthy.  It's not so easy as saying I'm just going to be over it.

Until you find a way to resolve it, it's going to be with you and negative.  Find a good professional and let them help you process it and put the blame where it belongs, which is not on you or your brother.  I learned the hard way you cannot merely "adjust your attitude" and "move on" and carried my crap with me until it ate me up because so many well-meaning people told me that.  I've also seen the results of that approach on many people on a professional basis.  Please don't do that or listen to anyone that tells you it's simple and just get over it.  You can't just "get over" serious childhood trauma anymore than you can "just get over" a serious car accident. 

Trusting a therapist is hard, I know.  However, therapy is kind of like dating in that you don't have to pick someone you're not comfortable with, keep shopping until you find the person that feels like a friend that you want to talk to even if it starts out with simple conversation.

Good luck to you, 


_____________________________



(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 3:57:43 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		It is always best to ignore and simply avoid and bury any problems that we ever might have faced at any point within or lives.  I

Geez, where will our future serial killers, abusers, and teenage high school assassins ever come to fruition if everyone actually dealt with the problems and pain that have been forced upon them?

This type of shit is fascinating....Long live those who cannot or refuse to choose to deal with their problems!  They tend to finally react to their pain in the most unpredictable of fashions. The shit that we all live to see.

_____________________________



(in reply to SleeplessGypsy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 5:07:22 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		slavejali,
i wish i could make everything magically better for You...i wish i could take the pain away and the work You are going to have to do easier... i do not believe (from personal experience) that this is a matter of a " bad attitude" or that this is something You need to "just get over" and in my experience, those two thoughts are the most prominent ones that have kept me at my sickest...Followed in a close runner up with the whole " i musn't feel sorry for myself" bullshit..i say bullshit because my mind can be pretty warped.. And what it has a tendency to do was that anytime i experienced anything that my mind associated as a negative emotion i convinced myself i was feeling sorry for myself and shut it off.... Not such a healthy way to live.....
i know what i'm about to say is going to sound trite, and please understand i don't mean it to be. However, You have already done the hardest part of all of this: You lived through it and You survived with Your sanity in tact... Do You know what a miracle that is??
i also must tell You (and frankly have no freaking idea why i'm about to share this) that i was abused in every way possible until i was about 18 or so by my father....He died 9 months ago, and it was nothing that i had dreamed of or fantasized of. i say this because i am okay admitting today that for most of my life i had imagined and fantasized about his death....However, when i drove them to the hospital i somehow (inadvertently) made the decision that i was about to act with grace and dignity...Because for the next 8 days i would treat him with more grace and dignity than he had treated me with my entire life...And (only 3 or 4 people know this) 2 days before he died i was alone in the room with him....... He was moaning so loud and i just wanted to end his pain...i had been really praying the previous 6 days about what my motives were for wanting him to be dead.... i went up to him, rubbed his shoulder, and whispered in his ear, "dad...i forgive you" and then to completely send me into shock i prayed and asked my higher power to forgive him...
i must tell You that was extremely difficult for me to deal with....i felt as though i had somehow betrayed myself by acting in accordance with my values.....In the end, we do the best we can with what we have at any given point in time.....
Please just remember that it's the 12 inches from Your head to Your heart that will kill You....
Please know You are in my thoughts and if there's anything at all i can do please don't hesitate to let me know.
Kali

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 5:24:07 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		Hello Slavejali I am sorry for what you have went thru, I have been thru similiar myself,  as for your brother please do not be angry with him, he would have also suffered hurts and likely was talking to you as he did because he is suffering as well.

It is not always possible to just pust matters like this into the shadows and  your memories may not have completely surfaced they rarely come all at once usually only bit by bit ,  you may need to have professional help to learn how to cope with or it may impact you for the rest of your life, same goes with your brother

here is some links you may find helpful in understanding some of what you are going through and what to expect if you are unable to cope and handle on your own, there is no shame in admitting if you are having troubles, you have to remember you were only a child at the time shen it happened , many strong healthy adults who become victims of trauma also have problems so never consider it a weakness on your part if you find yourself needing help
Repression of memories is extremely common with children who have been sexually abused, it is the way the body/mind protects itself until you get to a stage where you are mature enough to be able to handle though  handling may mean recognizing the fact that you may professional help to learn how
http://www.medicinenet.com/posttraumatic_stress_disorder/article.htm

This site has info coverng both the BDSM and childhood abuse/incest and includes coping strategies http://www.wingsoffiresurvivors.com/articles.htm


If you ever find yourself sinking into depression that is a good sign that you do need professional help inorder to learn to deal/cope with, trying to push it out of you mind or try to forget rarely works and often makes matters worse

I wish you well in your healing


_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 5:31:10 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

slavejali,
i wish i could make everything magically better for You...i wish i could take the pain away and the work You are going to have to do easier... i do not believe (from personal experience) that this is a matter of a " bad attitude" or that this is something You need to "just get over" and in my experience, those two thoughts are the most prominent ones that have kept me at my sickest...Followed in a close runner up with the whole " i musn't feel sorry for myself" bullshit..i say bullshit because my mind can be pretty warped.. And what it has a tendency to do was that anytime i experienced anything that my mind associated as a negative emotion i convinced myself i was feeling sorry for myself and shut it off.... Not such a healthy way to live.....
i know what i'm about to say is going to sound trite, and please understand i don't mean it to be. However, You have already done the hardest part of all of this: You lived through it and You survived with Your sanity in tact... Do You know what a miracle that is??
i also must tell You (and frankly have no freaking idea why i'm about to share this) that i was abused in every way possible until i was about 18 or so by my father....He died 9 months ago, and it was nothing that i had dreamed of or fantasized of. i say this because i am okay admitting today that for most of my life i had imagined and fantasized about his death....However, when i drove them to the hospital i somehow (inadvertently) made the decision that i was about to act with grace and dignity...Because for the next 8 days i would treat him with more grace and dignity than he had treated me with my entire life...And (only 3 or 4 people know this) 2 days before he died i was alone in the room with him....... He was moaning so loud and i just wanted to end his pain...i had been really praying the previous 6 days about what my motives were for wanting him to be dead.... i went up to him, rubbed his shoulder, and whispered in his ear, "dad...i forgive you" and then to completely send me into shock i prayed and asked my higher power to forgive him...
i must tell You that was extremely difficult for me to deal with....i felt as though i had somehow betrayed myself by acting in accordance with my values.....In the end, we do the best we can with what we have at any given point in time.....
Please just remember that it's the 12 inches from Your head to Your heart that will kill You....
Please know You are in my thoughts and if there's anything at all i can do please don't hesitate to let me know.
Kali


Kali, thank for sharing, I know that's not easy.  I might suggest to you that the person that can reveal something so painful to reach out to others may a bit stronger than even she realizes.

OP you are very much not alone and there many here that have been through similar and have found a way to make peace with it.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 6:11:05 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline 		For me it wasn't a parent, it was my stepbrother... and a family friend

So sorry Jali. 

I have talked mine out, to willing ears...

LJ

_____________________________

Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive. .
Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 6:28:04 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Dnomyar's words were overly harsh and unnecessarily angry, but, speaking from personal experience, there's more useful truth in them than in most of what "professionals" have to say.


And how many women have spoken with you about their sexual abuse histories? How many studies have you done that compared different approaches to dealing with childhood sexual abuse? What sort of expertise do you have to say these things to someone on the internet...

Anyone that has been reading me for a long time will tell you that my opinion about the mental health field is at the very least jaundiced, but I am not completely against it, nor do I have the arrogance to suggest that I know what is best for strangers over the internet as you and Dnomyer have put forward... at least when jali's master put his 2 cents in he did so from a place of knowing and loving her...

I have noted something on this thread, the most dismissive comments have come from men... and to be honest it is rather disheartening.

Jali, you will come to terms in your own time, and I cannot begin to pretend I know what you are feeling, I just don't... but you are in my thoughts.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 7:16:50 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		julia said exactly what i was going to say. i would just add that while you can't change what happened, you can feel good that, in spite of it, you were still able to become a good person and have a good life.   It might help you to express your feelings by writing a letter to the one that caused you so much pain.  This is something i have done and it helped me to deal with my feelings of hurt and anger and sadness and all the other emotions i was feeling.  i wrote the letter to the person that hurt me and put it in an envelope, addressed it, stamped it and then i burned it.  Doing that allowed me to get everything, that i was feeling inside, out of me and onto paper.  It gave me a way to express all that i was feeling, ask the questions i had and say everything that i needed to say, even though i knew i would never get a reply.  That helped me to move on and not stay stuck in all those negative feelings. slave joyOwned property of Master David
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

We repress memories that if they were to surface they would destroy us because we do not know what to do with them...

I do not know if this is any consolation, but the fact that these things are coming to the surface now is probably because you are strong enough and in a good enough place to deal with them. It is a testament to your strength now and how wonderful your life really is.

That doesn't mean it will not feel like shit to remember it, or not be painful, but it does mean that you are exactly right.. your life is so terrific that these memories can't ruin how wonderful it is...

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 7:58:36 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		*hugs kali tight*  that took something to say, hon, and i want to recognise that for you.

my  cousin raped me when i was 9.  my father abused me physically and emotionally all my life till i married and moved out, sexually from the age of 12 to the age of 17.  my best friend's brother raped me when i was 16.  my ex was abusive in all the major ways, including breaking bones.

it is NOT easy to get through, Jali.  you remember and you are sick to your soul, and you are angry and hurt and you dont know where to put it.  my father is still alive...my mother is still married to him.  she DIDNT KNOW till i was 22, maybe.  i'm not angry that she didnt know about the sexual abuse, i am angry sometimes that she didnt stop the physical abuse.  i'm not angry that she's still married to him.

i worked through anger, and sorrow, and more anger, then fury at the thought of "i now have UM's" and absolutely ill when i think of him near me.  i've worked through this for over half my life and its not done yet.  i am a work in progress.

someday i'll be finished and stand before my gods and ask how i did.  untill then, each day is another small battle.

kitten

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 8:01:32 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		A battle indeed.  Thanks for sharing adoracat.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to adoracat)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 8:03:43 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		thank you laurell.

kitten

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 8:25:58 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		the most amazing thing about being human is that we get to write our own historys.

we get to decide how things effect us, and what context to put around them.

we get to make choices about what we do with our past and how it will lead us into the future.

we can decide if something will make us stronger or if that same thing will destroy us.

sometimes it does not feel as though we have a choice, but we always do....we always do.


_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to adoracat)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 10:08:53 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

What sort of expertise do you have to say these things to someone on the internet...


Personal experience.  On the topic of dealing with sexual abuse, I have been both the one talking and the one doing the listening.




_____________________________



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Remembering - 12/11/2007 10:18:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

What sort of expertise do you have to say these things to someone on the internet...


Personal experience.  On the topic of dealing with sexual abuse, I have been both the one talking and the one doing the listening.





I think that this is a very individual thing, and some people need to talk to someone else that is "safe" about such things... someone they do not have an intimate relationship.

Everyone heals differently, and they heal at their own speed, and just saying "get over it"isn't going to help people actually get over it... As someone who repressed feelings from a trauma for over 23 years, I can tell you that people had that attitude that I should just "get over it"... they usually had that attitude because the feelings I expressed made them uncomfortable.. For that reason sometimes people need to go seek someone to talk to that will not be uncomfortable with their emotions.

For me it was a process of self forgiveness, letting go after feeling the things i needed to feel... unfortunately my repression led to me being diagnosed with PTSD about 3 years ago... and I have worked on healing myself ever since.

People grieve what they have to grieve until they are done grieving it... and there are some things in this life we never "get over", and that is ok too.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 40
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