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NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/10/2007 2:14:18 PM   
Real0ne


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Criticism of the term "neoconservative"





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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/10/2007 2:36:44 PM   
Stephann


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As a source, this seemed to fuel a good part of that article.

Stephan


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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/10/2007 3:24:24 PM   
farglebargle


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So, when Bush identifies as a Neocon, he's outing himself as a Jew?



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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/10/2007 5:20:40 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

As a source, this seemed to fuel a good part of that article.

Stephan


Say there, if "neocon" = Jewish, does "neoliberal" = Unitarian? Pagan? Buddhist?

thornhappy


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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/10/2007 5:37:49 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

As a source, this seemed to fuel a good part of that article.

Stephan


Say there, if "neocon" = Jewish, does "neoliberal" = Unitarian? Pagan? Buddhist?

thornhappy




.........clearly 'neoliberal' is often defined as 'antisemitic'. For example, "i wish to protest Israels's action in the Lebanon", "Shut up, you neoliberal anti-semite."

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/10/2007 7:43:51 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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I don't think George Bush has ever called himself nor has anyone in his administration referred to him as a Neo-Con and yes... in some circles since the pundits and/or adversaries can't point to then and say, the President is too influenced by his "Jew" advisors and policy wonks, they say he is too influenced by his Neo-Con advisors and policy wonks, most of them being Jewish.

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 12/10/2007 7:54:14 PM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 12:17:54 AM   
Termyn8or


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Say it, go ahead. It's not my turn. We can all get thrown off here and meet on Usenet somewhere, possibly make our own group.

I don't push these issues on here, for whatever reason they are not very welcome. But you fucking know it and I fucking know it. Sometimes I think everybody damn near knows it. I mean a two minute conversation with the pizza guy today, guess what came up ?

We all know it. We use this site for free. There are some things better left unsaid here.

If you think I am kidding about Usenet you are mistaken. I am not saying we abandon CM, but certain subjects would be better off,,,,,,,,, unmoderated. This site wants a certain image and exists for a certain purpose.

On the other hand Usenet does not care. Usenet does not care about anything. You could threaten to kill the President and it would probably take them a year to get you. I have seen some crazy shit on Usenet.

To setup email, an SMTP is setup, to get on Usenet an NNTP must be setup, unless you want to get to it through Google groups. It is in the "more" button. It rolls out and you click groups. Once you find one you can bookmark it, just be careful to bookmark the group, not an individual message.

From my rant of today, I deleted three paragraphs in toto, to stay out of trouble.

But I do have the balls to say this much, even here : (watch how careful)

What group of downtrodden, oppressed people who have never gotten a fair break throughout history wields the power to shut the Peoples' criticism of them down, almost anywhere ? What group of people who are morally superior and have been ejected from every country at one time or another, who does nothing but good in the world runs organizations that have been caught plotting a bombing, and breaking into government offices to steal records on US Citizens ?

Now everybody shutup and lets figure out a name for the Usenet group. And get a new email, it will be visible. And there will be spam. So do not sacrifice one of your normal email addresses to that. You only need to recieve one email to get on. Like here anybody can read, but only members can post.

This is life in the big city folks. Consider Usenet out in the country.

Down in these parts, well, keep it up and see what happens. I am not saying it is right or wrong.

I am here for free,

Know what, I think my post (the rant) almost got pulled. It had mention of those who are, well, not to be described. I think it was saved by the fact that someone was already responding to it.

Actually I don't believe I crossed the line, but I know it looked like I was going to. I'm told, and know, that it disappeared for a time.

You see I am on the list.

Last time I was on it, there was an option to start a new group. I think I'll give that a whirl. Thing is, you'll never get kicked off of Usenet.

We can talk about all kinds of things there, like the guy who brought in a half million hits of ecstasy and did two years for it in a foreign prison instead of the 200 years he should have done in a US prison. Anyone want to guess what country he "paid his debt to society" in ?

As a result of the restriction here, I have alot less to say about politics. But that is how it is here. You got one forum for this, you got one forum for that, and so forth.

Perhaps tomorrow I take a crack at starting a Usenet group, If I am successful, just make a new email, apply, recieve one email and you are all set.

And let me warn you, Usenet preceeded the internet and is widely used by academicians around the world, much more so than CM. When you put it out there folks, you are really putting it out there.

Putting it on the line here, under the cloak of semi-anonymity is not brave. If you have any real balls you will come to Usenet and get really up front. Nobody can stop you, or me, or anybody. But it is there for the world to see, not just kinky people, not just people looking for a piece of ass, ALL people.

Americans are largely unaware of Usenet, but some are extremely involved in it. It is more popular in other countries. Some of you in my age range might remember Usenet from college if you went. You might have even accessed it from a UNIX terminal.

But there is one thing about Usenet, absolutely noone controls it. It's almost like a P2P network. Not quite, but close. Noone can control it due to the way it is set up. That's how P2Ps get away with transferring millions of dollars worth of media evey month. It is not centralized. There is noone to sue.

Don't get me wrong, Usenet is closely watched. If you make death threats to public officials or some stupid shit like that, they will come. They will track you IP and all that and literally show up at your door. But then it is a matter of when. But be forewarned, do not get stupid. You can get alot bolder there, but you still can't get stupid.

I will look into it.

And don't answer my questions, I don't need any more answers right now.

Oh, if we do go Usenet to talk about ummmmmmmmmm "middle east issues", don't invite those who like to fight. Let them argue about something else.

I think CM is great, but there are certain subjects that are a nono here. I swear I can feel Mod11's body heat behind me.

I'll get on the Usenet thing tomorrow, it is too close to bedtime to do it tonight. (yea three AM)

Perhaps that is it. The name of the Usenet group.

alt.antisemitic.perjorative

Hmmm. I like that. Or should that be a g instead of a j ? not sure at the moment. But I'll find out.

T

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 2:45:17 AM   
farglebargle


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Why bother?

There's plenty of places to find like-minded-people already. If there's 2 or 3 folks here who give a shit, they can IM each other, or go to an email list something.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 3:17:20 AM   
CuriousLord


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"NeoCon", and its various derivatives (apparently), are among the most annoying words I know.  I'm so damn tired of hearing about "the neo cons are [doing this]" and "the neo cons are [doing that]".  It even strikes the ear as obnixious.  Seriously, at least "homework" isn't out of pitch with its own pronounciation.

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 9:46:22 AM   
Owner59


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 Inserting anything "Jewish",or anything having to do anti-semitism ,into the conversation about neo-conservatives, is an unrelated distraction and pointless.

Neo-conservatives are a breed unto themselves,and have nothing to do with Israel.Though Israel a part of their overall plans for the middle-east,Israel is not influencing middle-east policy ,in the secrete way that the op and the link suggest.That`s lunatic fringe stuff.

Nope,neo-cons are home-grown and as dangerous as a child with a loaded gun.Bill Crystal(a neo-con leader) actually had the  gaul to suggest that their(neo-con/bush) policy stopped Iran`s nuclear program in 2003.The same neo-cons, are also saying that the Intel/story about Iran stopping their nuclear program isn`t true,trying to have it both ways.In one breath claiming credit for ~it~,in the other,claiming ~it~ ,isn`t true.These are a shifty bunch,watch out for them.


As for the word neo-con(and people`s feelings about it),I think it`s important to distinguish between conservatives(regular republicans who make up most of the party),and neo-conservatives,who have very little to do with conservative politics. Since they`re are in charge right now,are are responsible for creating a huge disaster in the middle-east,they will be in the news(and mentioned) for a good while to come.


The neo-conservatives, are very much a 3rd party.Draped in the American flag,and selling fear and a phony morality,they have cunningly hijacked the republican party and it`s leadership.There`s little that regular,middle-of-the-road republicans can do.If the republicans nominate someone other than Ron Paul,you can say good-bye ,to the republican party.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/11/2007 9:51:35 AM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 5:55:50 PM   
Termyn8or


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59, welcome to Earth. I hope your interplanetary travels were enjoyable.

As far as your statement I got one word, an acromun actually :

AIPAC

T

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 9:40:15 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

59, welcome to Earth. I hope your interplanetary travels were enjoyable.

As far as your statement I got one word, an acromun actually :

AIPAC

T


PNAC = neo-con

AIPAC= Iraeli lobby

Though both are acronyms,they are actually different things,and two different groups.That`s well known,even in interplanetary space.

Do you have any proof,other than theory,creative thinking,and outright bullshit,that shows that American neo-conservatives(PNAC members,supporters,and their minions,including George Bush)are connected with Israel,in any way?

I don`t think you do.I`ll say it again,..trying to connect the neo-cons with Israel, is a BS distraction,put forth by the lunatic fringe.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



For those that want some info and context on The Project for the New American Century (PNAC):


http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/PNAC-Primer.htm

1997 position paper,a very interesting read.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/11/2007 9:48:18 PM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 9:55:44 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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But neo-con used for Bush and his branch of the republican party, is a misnomer. As I said before, they are non-Cons. Where is the reduced government? Where is the protection of personal liberties? Where is the responsible fiscal spending? I wish someone would make the constitutionalist party. Libertarian is appealing, except that a party full of individuals does not breed cohesion to issues.

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 10:31:22 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

But neo-con used for Bush and his branch of the republican party, is a misnomer. As I said before, they are non-Cons. Where is the reduced government? Where is the protection of personal liberties? Where is the responsible fiscal spending? I wish someone would make the constitutionalist party. Libertarian is appealing, except that a party full of individuals does not breed cohesion to issues.


reduced government,protection of personal liberties,responsible fiscal spending,are all traditional republican issues,though the last two, have always been a part of democratic policy(in spite of republican talking points).

The neo-conservatives(starting w/ Newt) are not about those things.They are amoral and as detached as a serial killer,when it comes to gaining  power and getting their way.

Not sure what the answer is,Orion.Maybe the real republicans could take back the party and reinstate the old values,and get rid of the lunatic fringe.If Wudy or "Mitt the varmint hunter" get the GOP nod,god help them.

I`m still not ruling out voting for Dr.Ron Paul,in the general election. 

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 10:43:37 PM   
Termyn8or


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59, what did you miss here ?

AIPAC = American Israel Political Action Commitee.

In case you hadn't noticed they are one of the most powerful lobbying groups around. Have been for years. Did you miss this somehow ?

I shouldn't need a cite or anything, this is like two plus two.

T

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/11/2007 11:10:19 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

59, what did you miss here ?

AIPAC = American Israel Political Action Commitee.

In case you hadn't noticed they are one of the most powerful lobbying groups around. Have been for years. Did you miss this somehow ?

I shouldn't need a cite or anything, this is like two plus two.

T


Just to bring ya up to speed,this is a thread about neo-cons or PNAC, The Project for the New American Century ,
not AIPAC.

Different letters......look and see.......

one has a P,a N,an A and a C.

the other starts with an A,then an I,a P,anther A,and then a C.

Different groups.Different names.Different agendas.Got it?

This is getting monotinus...

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/11/2007 11:17:39 PM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/12/2007 12:01:06 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

But neo-con used for Bush and his branch of the republican party, is a misnomer. As I said before, they are non-Cons. Where is the reduced government? Where is the protection of personal liberties? Where is the responsible fiscal spending? I wish someone would make the constitutionalist party. Libertarian is appealing, except that a party full of individuals does not breed cohesion to issues.


From WIkipedia:

quote:


"David Frum has attracted criticism because of his stand on the Iraqi War and his attitude toward people who do not support it. David Frum published a denouncement of paleoconservatives in 2003, saying:

"War is a great clarifier. It forces people to take sides. The paleoconservatives have chosen — and the rest of us must choose too. In a time of danger, they have turned their backs on their country. Now we turn our backs on them."[8]

causing conflict among Conservatives, typified by this contemporaneous response

"Frum has read me and my brand of conservatives out of his party, although I continue to have friends at National Review and even Weekly Standard." [9]"


That was the moment when the Neocon Party Whores took over the Conservative Wing of the Republican Party ( and de-facto, the Conservative Parties in various States... )

From there, it was easy to play to the religious fundamentalist wackos, like the 700-Clubbers etc.., and force all the Moderates out...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/12/2007 12:08:41 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Laughing...yeah...Jews like Condaleeza Rice.

Oh, I forgot, Dick Cheney is a well-known Jew.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I don't think George Bush has ever called himself nor has anyone in his administration referred to him as a Neo-Con and yes... in some circles since the pundits and/or adversaries can't point to then and say, the President is too influenced by his "Jew" advisors and policy wonks, they say he is too influenced by his Neo-Con advisors and policy wonks, most of them being Jewish.

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/12/2007 12:43:05 AM   
audioguy58


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"Cheney isn't a Neo-Con. Cheney HAS Neo-Cons, in the same sense that a dog has fleas"

Justin Raimondo

See Also:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11837
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12042

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/12/2007 5:41:26 AM   
Lordandmaster


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I don't care what Justin Raimondo or anyone else says, Dick Cheney is a neo-con.  In fact, he's the most important force behind everything the neo-cons have done.  Without Dick Cheney, neo-cons would still be harmless drudges buried in thinktanks and we wouldn't have gotten involved in any of our foreign-policy nightmares.

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