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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/12/2007 7:59:47 AM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: audioguy58

"Cheney isn't a Neo-Con. Cheney HAS Neo-Cons, in the same sense that a dog has fleas"

Justin Raimondo

See Also:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11837
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12042

Ridiculous,...he was in on it from the beginning,and a founder of PNAC.

As an aside, at 1st the PNAC members and supporters, embraced the term "neo-con".The term "paleo-con" popped up as well.Those were heady days,a great economy,with people`s lots improving,and "Monica",to beat Bill Clinton with.That was ten years ago.

Now ,they run away from the term.No one on the conservative side ,really uses the term any more.

Though there are a few die-hards and believers left, it`s a discredited and rejected movement.That`s why many are in denial and playing "cute" with history,saying they never used the term or never heard it before,etc.

But, PNAC founder and neo-conservative leader Bill Crystal, couldn`t help himself the other day and claimed exclusive credit(using neo-con policy and logic) for Iran`s, stopped nuclear program.

The pattern is clear,when things are going well(or appear to be),take all the credit(like Crystal just did).

When things are in the shit hole,blame someone else,run and hide,pretend you didn`t do it,blame Bill Clinton,etc.Anything but "man up",and take responsibility.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/12/2007 8:00:55 AM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/12/2007 9:14:37 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Fucking difficult to do when so many are lured by the money thrown by the big corps. Watch out, as I see it in your party as well. That fucking dollar will corrupt what seems like the most virtuous ones in the Democratic party. Corps have to be stripped of some of their rights, they truly are the puppet masters at national and some state levels.

This is why, I am so against business as usual politicians, no matter what party. Ron Paul is better, but he has some whacky ideas. I do not see any front runners I like yet, and refuse to keep voting the lesser of two evils.

Damn I think hell may freeze over, we are agreeing on something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

But neo-con used for Bush and his branch of the republican party, is a misnomer. As I said before, they are non-Cons. Where is the reduced government? Where is the protection of personal liberties? Where is the responsible fiscal spending? I wish someone would make the constitutionalist party. Libertarian is appealing, except that a party full of individuals does not breed cohesion to issues.

reduced government,protection of personal liberties,responsible fiscal spending,are all traditional republican issues,though the last two, have always been a part of democratic policy(in spite of republican talking points).

The neo-conservatives(starting w/ Newt) are not about those things.They are amoral and as detached as a serial killer,when it comes to gaining power and getting their way.

Not sure what the answer is,Orion.Maybe the real republicans could take back the party and reinstate the old values,and get rid of the lunatic fringe.If Wudy or "Mitt the varmint hunter" get the GOP nod,god help them.

I`m still not ruling out voting for Dr.Ron Paul,in the general election.

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/12/2007 11:28:27 PM

Termyn8or

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What the fuck you smoking ? I said nothing about PNAC at all.

I said AIPAC.

If you get PNAC out of AIPAC, I want your dealer's number on speed dial, like Nickelback said.

AIPAC, explain that. AIPAC, not PNAC, AIPAC. Understand ? Reading between the line is for idiots, read the fucking lines.

T

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 6:32:08 AM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

What the fuck you smoking ? I said nothing about PNAC at all.

I said AIPAC.

If you get PNAC out of AIPAC, I want your dealer's number on speed dial, like Nickelback said.

AIPAC, explain that. AIPAC, not PNAC, AIPAC. Understand ? Reading between the line is for idiots, read the fucking lines.

T

Oh I get it,you haven`t look at the thread title,yet.It`s about neo-cons(ie. PNAC).

Maybe you`re a the Antisemitic side of this thread.Hard to tell,with your code-speak.

Why don`t you just explain ,what it is you`re trying to say.
I have already stated that the neo-cons are not the Israeli lobby,or part it.They have a different agenda,than AIPAC,and are unrelated.

Just pointing and saying ,"see,don`t you see",isn`t informing anyone.Spell it out.If it`s as easy as adding 2+2,then explain it in a way that`s easy to understand.

Can you draw a connection between the neo-conservitives, and Israel?If it`s so easy,even you can do it.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/13/2007 6:35:19 AM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 10:57:49 AM

luckydog1

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Owner, citing the Protocolls of the elders of Zion isn't a very deep code, even you should be able to crack it.

Neo Con is used as a slur by the right wing for anti semetic. They do it on these boards constantly and have for a few years.
Owner also as you should have noticed by now, Sanity or I are not far right wing. Term, real, Utopian, ect are the far right wing...and they hate Bush more than you do. And they use Neo Con as code for Zionist/Jew lover.

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 4:29:17 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Owner, citing the Protocolls of the elders of Zion isn't a very deep code, even you should be able to crack it.

Neo Con is used as a slur by the right wing for anti semetic. They do it on these boards constantly and have for a few years.
Owner also as you should have noticed by now, Sanity or I are not far right wing. Term, real, Utopian, ect are the far right wing...and they hate Bush more than you do. And they use Neo Con as code for Zionist/Jew lover.

I don`t think so.But I`d welcome an example of that,from the mainstream press.Do you have one?

My experience has been, that people are being called antisemitic and anti-Israel ,for being against Bush`s middle- east policy(including the Iraq disaster).Or that people are antisemitic, for criticizing Israeli policies.

I think there is plenty to criticize Israel for,and many ways we can influence Israeli policy for the better.However,the right-wing kooks(here and there) don`t want any change in policy.They label any change as caving in to terrorists,or worse.They call people, who only want a change in current policy,antisemitic,which is totally ridiculous and laughable.

The right-wing a** holes saying(pooping) this crap,are in loony bin anyway,and don`t count for much.

People like Jonah Goldberg(son of the infamous Lucy-ann Goldberg,the evil-doer behind Linda Tripp`s shenanigans).He says tons of stupid things,like calling the French,cheese-eating surrender monkeys.He has similar things to say about liberals and critics of the Iraq war.

And, neo-conservative writer and activist David Horowitz ,who is now going after Ron Paul, for criticizing our middle-east policy.

"On Glenn Beck's CNN Headline News show, Horowitz recently criticized Ron Paul's US Presidential candadacy. "I think it's very significant he (Ron Paul) chose Guy Fawkes as an image...There are plenty, unfortunately, libertarian websites which are indistinguishable from the anti-American left these days - LewRockwell.com and others like that - they are totally in bed with the Islamofascists and have turned against this country."

Those guys are on the margin,but get a lot of attention,b/c they flame on people so well,the way Ann Colter does.They really want to fuzz the lines and turn the focus away from the neo-con policy failures,and call their critics anti-American,as well as antisemitic.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/13/2007 4:55:54 PM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 4:54:44 PM

luckydog1

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owner, something does not have to be in the mainstream press to exist. And there is no voice for the far right wing in the mainstrem press. I realise it is part of your propaganda to pretend so. But the far right wing are neo nazis, and white supremists. They hate Bush. They see him in bed with the Jews/Isreal.

I do not see you as an antisemite for harping on Neo Cons.

It is just as dishonest to try to pretend that anyone using the term "Neo Con" is an antisemite, as it is to pretend that Bush is the far right wing.

But there are plenty of examples on these boards and around the net of people using Neo Con as a code for "Jew". You are trying to argue with Termn8tr, in this very thread, 3 or 4 posts up. He is at least is honest about where he stands.

< Message edited by luckydog1 -- 12/13/2007 4:57:08 PM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 6:27:34 PM

Petronius

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Like so many ostensibly conservative notions about anti-Semitism these days, the "demonstration" of the theory doesn't exist. Rather the rant does, a set of ongoing assertions about reality that are supposed to add up to anti-Semitism.

This is particularly true when we see rightwing attacks around anti-Semitism directed at progressive Jews.

Rejecting the rants, I see a goodly amount of anti-Semitism presented, or, more accurately a goodly amount of rightwing propaganda appeal to traditional anti-Semetic topics.

As in:

"liberal-controlled press" ("Jewish-controlled press")
"liberal-controlled Hollywood" ("Jewish-controlled Hollywood")
"liberal-controlled TV" ("Jewish-controlled TV")
"liberal hate-America first" ("Jewish love Israel first")

Funny how the rightwing Jews, ostensibly so concerned about anti-Semetism from within the Jewish community seem to routinely miss these real appeals to anti-Semetic prejudice.

Even funnier how some of the rightwing Jews, in their rush to condemn progressive Jews as "anti-Semites," are in bed with the various non-Jewish rightwing forces who really appeal to anti-Semetism.

Or not very funny at all.

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 6:33:46 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

owner, something does not have to be in the mainstream press to exist. And there is no voice for the far right wing in the mainstrem press. I realise it is part of your propaganda to pretend so. But the far right wing are neo nazis, and white supremists. They hate Bush. They see him in bed with the Jews/Isreal.

I do not see you as an antisemite for harping on Neo Cons.

It is just as dishonest to try to pretend that anyone using the term "Neo Con" is an antisemite, as it is to pretend that Bush is the far right wing.

But there are plenty of examples on these boards and around the net of people using Neo Con as a code for "Jew". You are trying to argue with Termn8tr, in this very thread, 3 or 4 posts up. He is at least is honest about where he stands.

owner, something does not have to be in the mainstream press to exist.

True,but that`s what counts.Loony no-bodies,posting or blogging are just that,loony no-bodies.

"And there is no voice for the far right wing in the mainstream press". Not true,the NRA,Rush Limbaugh,The Christian-right,FoxNews,Newsmax,etc,are far-right.
Who`s to the right of those jerks?

Not true.
Nazis and supremacists aren`t even in the picture.Jonah Goldberg and David Horowitz are.And their ugly type of criticism,is where the equating of "neo-con" and "pro-Israel", comes from.

I realise it is part of your propaganda to pretend so. But the far right wing are neo nazis, and white supremists.

Nope.It`s your hero Ann Coulter ,Michael Savage,Bob Novak,etc.The nazis and white supremacists may vote republican(*if the even vote),but they are not part discussion.

And what`s your propaganda,lucydog? That Bush is a competent leader,and his administration is a successful one? Pfff... Yeah right.

"They hate Bush".Nope*.

"They see him in bed with the Jews/Isreal".
And they matter as much as dust does.

"He is at least is honest about where he stands".

As someone divorced of honesty(and reality),I take that as a complement.

Ya know lucky,your obsession with me is a little creepy....

I think all this comes from a guilty conscience, and cowardice of taking responsibility for Iraq,on the part of neo- conservatives.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/13/2007 6:41:28 PM >

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 6:48:20 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petronius

Like so many ostensibly conservative notions about anti-Semitism these days, the "demonstration" of the theory doesn't exist. Rather the rant does, a set of ongoing assertions about reality that are supposed to add up to anti-Semitism.

This is particularly true when we see rightwing attacks around anti-Semitism directed at progressive Jews.

Rejecting the rants, I see a goodly amount of anti-Semitism presented, or, more accurately a goodly amount of rightwing propaganda appeal to traditional anti-Semetic topics.

As in:

"liberal-controlled press" ("Jewish-controlled press")
"liberal-controlled Hollywood" ("Jewish-controlled Hollywood")
"liberal-controlled TV" ("Jewish-controlled TV")
"liberal hate-America first" ("Jewish love Israel first")

Funny how the rightwing Jews, ostensibly so concerned about anti-Semetism from within the Jewish community seem to routinely miss these real appeals to anti-Semetic prejudice.

Even funnier how some of the rightwing Jews, in their rush to condemn progressive Jews as "anti-Semites," are in bed with the various non-Jewish rightwing forces who really appeal to anti-Semetism.

Or not very funny at all.

Very good points.Thanks.

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 8:08:15 PM

luckydog1

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Nah, the far right wing hates Bush. There are plenty farther to the right. Buchanon is the closest to them in the mainstream. I guess if people aren't in your picture you are simply closing your mind, perhaps you can't process it.

So go a head and pretend that far right wingers on this very thread are not arguing that Neo Con is code for Jews.

Why exactly do you think I have an obbsession with you? you are the one pretending you can read my mind. then you argue agianst w hat you made up by saying "Pfff"..

I do point out that you regularly try to frame Questions in unsupportable ways. For example you pretending they were trying to make free porn sites illegal.

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RE: NeoCon = AntiSemitic Pejorative - 12/13/2007 8:11:21 PM

samboct

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May I chime in- as a liberal and a Jew-and not embarassed about either?
Kudos to Petronius who succinctly pointed out that the current situation is indeed, curiouser and curiouser.

Just a couple of points-
1) Jews are supposed to be liberals- one of the major precepts of the religion is to look after the downtrodden- Jew or otherwise. In practice this gets tossed, but if every religions followers actually followed the precepts of the religion, odds are the world would be a better place. I'll bet Muhammed is spinning in his grave with the actions of 9/11.
2) It does seem like many of the policy wonks in the Bush administration are Jewish- Wolfowitz certainly springs to mind.
3) A lot of these policy wonks are justifying their actions with the Holocaust, which makes no sense. The perpetrators of that foul deed are now dead (well most of them at least)- so who exactly are they blaming today? But since the policy wonks are justifying their actions with their religion (or actions taken over 6 decades ago), it seems then that there is indeed a political basis for attacking Jews in general, if the religion does not repudiate what's being done in its name. I must admit, I find this logic twisted like a pretzel, but it may be hard to deny that there's something going on. Conversely- supporting the Bush administration is effectively condoning torture, and this is a case where moral lines are being crossed. Somehow the Bush administration saying we're torturing Arabs in order to protect Israel doesn't sit very well with me- and Jewish policy wonks using their religion to justify their actions are conceivably more heinous than just being ignorant clots.
4) There seems to be slavish devotion to Israel on the part of the policy wonks and the Bush administration. Some of us think that Israel lost any moral superiority over its neighbors with the invasion and occupation of Lebanon. One can certainly be a Jew, a liberal, and disagree with the actions of the Israeli gov't as well as our own. Somehow I don't think this makes me an anti-semite- a term in the present discussion certainly lacks precision. Aren't Arabs semites as well?

Sam

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