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The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 11:56:33 AM

Real0ne

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The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Sanity?)

To bad I cant find this in text for those without HS.

Is this really forien "policy"?

Is it sane? I suppose the biggest question becomes how can we "ever" go back?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/2/2007 11:58:04 AM >

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 1:04:08 PM

cyberdude611

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Part of the overall problem is that the world, including the United States, has yet to figure out how to move forward in the post cold war world. Everyone in power right now grew up in a dichotomous world that was always on the brink of nuclear armageddon. In 1992, the Iron Curtain fell and the Soviet Union was dissolved. Obviously this meant that the foreign policy the US has had since Harry Truman will need to be changed. There were people in the high levels of foreign policy creation in the US government in both Bush administrations as well as the Clinton administration that had an inherent fear that another rival power could rise like the Soviet Union and put American security in jeopardy.

In the end, the Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld-Cheney-Rice doctrine won out. A policy basically that says that the US should eliminate rivals and promote democratization of the world.

The problem we have learned the hard way is that you can't install systems of government that are culturally incompatable. It's like trying to install Windows on an old computer designed only for MS-DOS. You need to upgrade the hardware before you can make the operating system work. We have also learned that in certain areas, democracy may in fact lower the quality of life and can provoke civil war. In central Asia and the mid-east especially, you are dealing with many different groups of people. And there is a lot of bad blood between many of these groups. When you start giving freedom to these groups, many will want independance. Many will want revenge. Many will want to wipe the other rival group out.
So this democratization strategy is much more complicated and more difficult than originally thought.

(in reply to Real0ne)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 3:54:32 PM

Zensee

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Why is it necessary to couch opposition to US foreign policy in anti-semitic terms?

quote:

The Paul Wolfowitz doctrine
"It is from us that the all-engulfing terror proceeds." - The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

The jewish Wolfowitz is currently terrorising the Third World with "free trade".

This is from the supporting text of the video clip.

Here's another choice morsel:

quote:

CNN: Jews behind 9/11 exposed 9/11 was a jew job! Don't let people like Alex Jones fool you into believing otherwise!

Truth sometimes hurts... but it's time to leave the twilight zone of ignorance and despair. Truth may hurts, but it's the only way out of our crises. There will be no justice without truth, and without justice there will be no peace.

A "jew job"?

Come on Real. Get real.

Z.

PS: For those who may not know, the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was a hoax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

< Message edited by Zensee -- 12/2/2007 4:00:16 PM >

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:07:08 PM

Politesub53

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Whatever else the Wolfowitz document exposes the way oil in the middle east was viewed.

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:07:32 PM

luckydog1

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Why is it necessary to couch opposition to US foreign policy in anti-semitic terms?

Well that is the basis of a large bloc (not all of it) of Anti Bush thinking....Some of them don't bother to hide it. Others try to look reasonable in public.

(in reply to Zensee)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:32:30 PM

Real0ne

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To Bad you lose.

This was a test to see who was interested in the message that i referred to in the OP, (the contents in the vieo), and who was interested with the fluff around it. Nothing you stated was opined by me in the OP.

I tried to find this information out on the neocon sites but damn it there is just never anything there. Maybe you can help me find it on an official neocon site?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Zensee)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:35:39 PM

luckydog1

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Maybe there is a reason that so much of your "infomation" comes from Anti Semites and Neo Nazis real. It's just not information with out errie lighting and scary music, is it?

(in reply to Real0ne)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:40:36 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

In the end, the Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld-Cheney-Rice doctrine won out. A policy basically that says that the US should eliminate rivals and promote democratization of the world.

Thanks for staying on topic.

The problem i see is the justification for "pre-emptive". I mean with that in mind, i had a service bud who's farts could be classified as wmds. The problem is that it is reaching into our lives, in as much as the way our legislation is written since 911.

What I mean is that gives us basically the right to attack anyone who does not agree with our policies anywhere in the world, hence the right to take over the world. (at least in the minds of the creators. So with this kind of thinking we label it terrorist even if evidence is planted, (pre-emptive right?), then feel justified in striking. Both abroad and at home.

Do you know anywhere the us has inserted democracy? Everywhere i look the us has replaced democracy with dictators to do our bidding.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 8

RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:43:33 PM

Real0ne

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yah it sort of sux when the media filtered and ya cant trust the government.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 9

RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:47:45 PM

Zensee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
yah it sort of sux when the media filtered and ya cant trust the government.

LiveLeak is hardly unfiltered media.

Z.

(LiveLeak - is that like Realtime Waterspoorts?)

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to Real0ne)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:53:59 PM

liminalRapture

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I despise Bush, Wolfowitz, Cheney, et. al. And there is some interesting info in the video (although the anti-Semitic quotes creep me out and blow much of their credibility).

But, as someone trying to remain based in the reality based community, I really dislike the innuendo they play at the end, juxtaposing the New American Century reference to Pearl Harbor with 9/11 and implying that, perhaps, the Bushies had something to do with 9/11. Anyone making that argument so badly damages their credibility, that it is pointless to engage.

The Bushies have done more damage to this country than we will repair in our life times. Let's leave the conspiracy theorists to thems wearing aluminum haberdashery and stick to facts.

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to Real0ne)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 4:57:27 PM

Real0ne

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Neither is it broadcast on all the major networks. Again you have nothing to say or refute "actual" video in the OP.
Try watching the video and tell me something relevant to the op. That is after all what I was looking for, opinions on the OP but if you dont have one thats cool too.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Zensee)

Post #: 12

RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 5:00:43 PM

CuriousLord

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I'm really not sure how you find these conspiracy theories as anything but insulting to your intelligence.

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 5:03:25 PM

Real0ne

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I didnt notice antisemetic quotes in it, i guess i better watch it again to see what you are talking about.

I thought they made excellent points of the history leading up to iraq war, and though i will not go so far as to say bush (personally) did it, neither will i say he was not involved.

What do you think about about the wolfiwitz doctrine and what it means and the road it is taking this country down?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to liminalRapture)

Post #: 14

RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 5:05:14 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I'm really not sure how you find these conspiracy theories as anything but insulting to your intelligence.

You had to make that up CL because there is nothing in there that is a conspiracy theiory.

Its all about policy, unless you want to paint US Policy as a conspiracy theory, which might actually be a pretty good one now that i think about it LOL

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 15

RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 5:07:43 PM

Real0ne

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looks like i hit a real hot button eh? what is it now 3 or 4 red herrings in a row?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 16

RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 5:31:05 PM

luckydog1

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So let me get this straight,

It is un filtered if it is heavily edited, has lots of unrealted pictures, a spooky soundtrack, dark ominous lighting, and no sourcing of information???

I suppose it is an unfiltered showing of a Neo Nazi propaganda film, if you use a very convuluted argument.

I really wish you would look up what a "redherring argument" is real, your continual misuse of the term is getting annoying.

(in reply to Real0ne)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 5:35:36 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Why is it necessary to couch opposition to US foreign policy in anti-semitic terms?

Well that is the basis of a large bloc (not all of it) of Anti Bush thinking....Some of them don't bother to hide it. Others try to look reasonable in public.

Everything in that vid was true and has been validated.But the anti-Jewish thing,killed it.Sorry real,you blow it with that shit.

The story of PNAC and the "new conservatives",can be ,should be ,and will be told,without going that ugly place.

.

(in reply to luckydog1)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 5:37:11 PM

CuriousLord

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You don't see the "conspiracy" in it?

I'd encourage you to consider the clandestine nature it portrays the individuals in it as having. It calls them "neo cons", accusing them of acting, at their very core, by a particular creed to force their empire over the world without offering any evidence outside of the viewers' own prejustices and small snipetts taken out of context (not even complete sentences!).

(in reply to Real0ne)

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RE: The Paul Wolfowitz Doctrine (Bush Sanity?) - 12/2/2007 5:46:41 PM

liminalRapture

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OP--why not link to some of the quality journalism that has documented the New American Century work, look at Bill Moyer's piece this week on the neo-cons and their support of Israel as a means to the end (the rapture), look at The Nation article on the New American Century, of the Salon.com piece on Cheney hijacking Bush's foreign policy. There has been a ton of quality work that backs up their sources to the same end.

As for the implication towards the end that the Bushies were behind 9.11 (not to mention your sig)--do you really think they would be competent enough to pull it off? I mean, really? Even if they were unethical enough to do it (which I don't actually doubt), I don't think they could have recruited another dozen people or so, and not had one of them leak the plan. No military person would have gone along with attacking the Pentagon. They had friends working in the building. The business people, for the most part, would have felt the same about the WTC.

And frankly, if Bush planned it, do you really think he would have been reading "My Pet Goat" and totally let Giuliani run away with that day?

I've been to protests in DC, worked for Howard Dean and MoveOn--I'm not a right winger and there is very little I would ever think this administration has done remotely right, with the sole exception of how Condi Rice has handled Turkey. There is enough stuff based in fact for all reasonable people to realize how dreadfully the Bush administration had destroyed this country. But when you start linking to stuff that is quoting the Elders of Zion you make people who despise Bush (like me) defend the worst president in history.

< Message edited by liminalRapture -- 12/2/2007 6:04:43 PM >

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

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