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Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 12:54:33 AM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
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Following on from an interesting conversation about perceptions with a friend, I thought I would post and ask CM members their opinions on what is going on.

Him: You made me do all the housework for hours, threw me into a cage and denied me food or drink for three more hours while electrocuting my cock/balls. You ignored me and I feel disappointed that when I was let out of the cage - nothing. We watched a film and went to bed. It was all a let down and I didn't enjoy it - there was nothing 'special' about it and it could have been done on any week day night as far as I'm concerned.

Her: You were instructed to dress in your maid's outfit, told to wear the latest pair of shoes you were purchased which are ridiculously high and in which you have trouble walking. You were forced to do the housework, with me scrutinising your work and chastising you as/when necessary for four hours, taking delight in your discomfort while you completed your tasks. As soon as the housework was completed, to my satisfaction, you were placed in your cage, electrodes attached to your genitalia, setting it to 'manual', tormenting you for three further hours and refusing you food or water during those seven hours. While you were in your cage, I ignored you except when frequently delivering painful jolts and giggled audibly often at your reactions. When you were let out I had you kneel before me, holding you by the throat and reminding you of your duty to me. I retired to the sofa, instructing you to put on a film for me to watch and having you massage my feet/legs. When we retired to bed afterwards I continued teasing/denying you until I finally fell asleep. I had a good day/evening tormenting you.

So, two completely different viewpoints about the same occurrence. My friend and I have differing viewpoints about what occurred and I would like to hear your take on what you think is going on.

Post #: 1

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 1:07:46 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

"Special" says it all. Regardless who had fun and who didn't, if for the person who didn't, it didn't feel special, then it was no fun. It'd be nice to see someone remembering there were two people involved in this process and that, if for nothing else, than simply a reward for a job well done, "special" would have been nice.

juliet

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 2

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 1:19:51 AM

Masterslena

Posts: 16
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

hmmm...the scenario sounds familiar...one person submitting to the other in hopes of 'something special' occuring after, and then nothing. while i understand that submission is about giving your will and choices to another it is hoped that sometimes, as juliet points out it is remembered that there are 2 people involved who each have their own needs/wants to be satisfied. if those needs (for the sub) are not satisfied at least occaisionally, then perhaps someday there won't be anymore foot massages (for the Dom/me)...just throwing that out there as food for thought...

oh, and i speak from experience...continual denial is bring me to the point of wanting to walk...it doesn't feel 'special'

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 3

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 1:25:59 AM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
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Interesting point, Juliet. Two people interacting on a level they don't with others and yet somewhere there is a misalignment. Their interaction should be special to one another b/c the effort was there from both persons. Had the Domme not considered the sub with affection she would not have made the effort at all - the fact he was there made it special for her.

What I left out of my OP is that the submissive enjoys tease/denial, but does have frequent rewards - rewards he chooses himself. He also says that he derives enjoyment from being made to do things he doesn't like and has this listed as one of his 'special days'.

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 4

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 1:37:40 AM

arayofsunshine55

Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline

It's hard to imagine doing all of that with someone who didn't enjoy it in any way. Even that was enjoying not enjoying it. But that is me. I want us both to enjoy it. And the reality is, it is rare that I'll hurt someone, I hope we'd both find it special. If not, I would really consider whether we were well-matched. There is a lot of overlap hopefully between what I enjoy and what he enjoys. More than enough to have a grand time. And then there are the headgames, assuming that floats his boat as much as it floats mine.

There is no right or wrong. There are two people, two viewpoints, two different perceptions. That's life. How do you manage when you differ, not those are the relationship skills I really look for.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 5

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 1:40:11 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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my relationship with my first Dominant was not a romantic one, and i'm not clear as to the dynamic of the couple depicted. In my case, i was not looking to be 'special' but i still needed positive feedback that i had done well, had been pleasing to my Dominant. my need in the relationship was to learn and grow in service and submission. As long as i could go home knowing that i had accomplished something, learned something, gained a greater insight, then the evening was a success. One of the best lessons He ever taught me was to change my focus from me and what i could do to just being pleasing and what does He need, want, desire.

After a time, there were no more lessons. He used me for His delight but i was not learning or growing, the times together were predictible, stale and without challenge. When we discussed this, He told me He had taken me as far as i could go. What i clearly heard was "I've taken you as far as I care to take you." Since i had not signed on for the long haul, it was time to go and i did.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 6

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 2:09:41 AM

MasDom

Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
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Some times its up to the person to get that enjoyment from their submission, and at times its filler, not always the same Ole sexual play.
I say lets not forget their are two people, but your just as responsible for your pleasure as any one else.
And to that breaking down theirs an injustice, but only if never explained as functional or purposefully, just ignorant and uncaring.
But if not to wait shall we all as Dom's consider cutting everything to another's needs?...
Its a double edge sword either way, and only the sincerity and trust, explanations over come such.

If left to that wouldn't it get just as old?

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 7

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 2:11:01 AM

MasDom

Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
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But yeah talk is good...

(in reply to MasDom)

Post #: 8

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 6:41:15 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I do not know what to say, because the play is just an extension of my feelings for my Daddy. I know it is hard to remain focused on topping me for that many hours of play, and I would be grateful for the time he spent... even if I did not experience the sensations that I had hoped to. The bottom masochist part of me does get sated, but the submissive part of me does not expect that to happen all the time.

I think that the expectations may be misaligned perhaps?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 9

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 7:24:31 AM

yourMissTress

Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

This could be one of 2 things in my opinion.

1. How many people don't ask for all that they want? How many people assume that certain things don't have to be asked for?

A sub says "I want to serve you, clean your house, take care of all of your needs, be objectified, locked in a cage, tortured, denied food and water, teased and denied orgasm and all for your pleasure." But means, I want to do all of these things but you really have to be paying some attention to me, following me around with your crop and spanking me when I don't do things right, objectify me but, treat me like a person while you do it, lock me in a cage and torture me, but make sure that I'm comfortable, tease me and deny me orgasm until I really want to cum, and once you have done all of this, I would like you to forget about any of your own needs and wants and ask me what would make this special for me.

2. Some people just don't care about their partner, in which case they won't have one for very long.

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 10

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 7:37:24 AM

LaMspeach

Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline

I had to learn to serve because it was part of my submission to him not because I was looking for special or hoping for something in return. When we as submissives/slaves do something in order to get something we are often let down because we don't get what we hoped for.
He allowed her to torture him in hopes for "special" (whatever that was) and was let down because he didn’t get the reward he wanted. In my eyes the rewards was being allowed to cuddle and watch a movie with her while massaging her legs and feet.

Maybe she is trying to teach him to learn the pleasure of serving with out wanting a reward in return.

Also agree with Lena, we cant give and give and never be made to feel special or receive that reward because after awhile the well will run dry and we will have nothing let to give.

< Message edited by LaMspeach -- 12/1/2007 7:43:04 AM >

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 11

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 8:43:47 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Once again this proves it's not about the "act"- it's about the motivation, the orientation, what makes someone click inside.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LaMspeach)

Post #: 12

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 8:49:32 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Wow, what a flashback for me!

What lacked "specialness" about that scene? I guess you have to ask Mr Disgruntled Maid. The whole thing could just indicate a lack of match, not a lack of sincerity on either person's part.

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[page 23 girl]

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 13

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 8:57:13 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Well I can elaborate and say a lot of what you described is what happened to me on a weekend of service I had. And yes, it was everything a service sub could have dreamed- wearing uncomfortable clothes, even being played with new toys and methods, a whole weekend just there to provide.

But from the time we left the airport together, with him knowing I'd just been on a 9 hour journey and not checking once to see if I needed food or water, till the end of the journey where he fell asleep on the couch watching a movie- it really was not fun for me.

I don't even blame him in a lot of ways- I could sincerely tell through the weekend that he MEANT things to go well and that honestly he was having a total blast. We had been friends for a long time, we'd been talking for weeks about what to expect, and he never went against anything and in many ways was a good host.

But as awesome as he says it was for him, it really wasn't special at all. I felt drained, sad, and unsure about the future of our friendship as I left.

If that type of service doesn't directly make the sub "click" then there needs to be some indirect specialness to it so that the sub can still feel good about the experience. Whether the master provides the specialness, directly or indirectly, is up to the relationship. But if it's not there in SOME way, then it's not working.

I understand how for YOU that would seem totally awesome. I even understand how you would have every intention of that being awesome for HIM and totally confused why it wasn't. But the fact still remains- it didn't work for him at all.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 14

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 9:03:05 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

what do i see in these post Flip flops from subs. People say they can server with any love or value or response but it has to be fun. In the lifestyle you donot always get what you want. I guess the rule of thumb is here pick your play partners more carefully and not just the swinger mentality

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 15

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 9:18:45 AM

MrSpectacular

Posts: 1153
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

I think it is not even two different view points - there needs to be an understanding that at any moment in time we can either be on or off - there may be subs that are always 100% available - but with all of our life distractions and responsibilities I don't think so. So it is really not a point of view but how you were feeling at that particular moment. How to communicate that is to me the issue to be resolved between partners.

_____________________________

Yes I am Spectacular and they are real!

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 16

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 11:31:31 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I'm going to add to what seems to be the overall concensus here. I don't see it as mismatched playmates, I see it as mismatched expectations, and expectations can be changed.

What is unknown about this pair is how long he has been in service to her, and where he is in his submission to her. By that I mean he may not have been trained yet to learn the pleasures of pleasing her without regard for himself. This is not always easy to learn. For some it comes naturally; for others - like myself - it requires learning a new attitude, and learning to find the reward is the Dominant's pleasure. Pats on the head are nice indeed, and the submissive must feel appreciated overall. It is an interesting dance, for some dominants to train the submissive to feel valued, without being coddled to it.

Some relationships are set up more affectionately than others, or more romantically than others. If, like mine, affection and romance are not key parts of the dynamic, then the submissive, if willing, learns to draw from within. There is amazing strength and esteem that can be found when having to rely on oneself for affirmation. There is amazing trust in the dominant and in the relationship that can be developed when one must trust on the overall fact that one is appreciated and valued, even if not patted on the head or rewarded with each act of service.

It is not a dynamic for everyone, and there is too little known about this scenario to know what their overall dynamic is. It's easy to look at the scenario and make snap decisions or judgments on it, but all we are seeing is a snapshot of their lives - not their overall relationship and what it means to each, and what is hoped to be gained from it.

I have personally been involved in serving myself to my Master for a complete day, only for him to remind me of my place before walking out the door, leaving me in a heap on the floor. Sounds cruel to some. But that is just one day. There are other times when he tells me how awesome he thinks I am, and how valued I am by him, and when he pulls my body up close and strokes my hair and showers me with kudos. In one scenario, we look totally mismatched; in the other, we look perfect for each other. But each is simply part of an overall whole, and in my case, those kudos would not have as much value to me if told every day. In our case, he loves that if he needs to or wants to, he can leave me lying there used up, and I will be able to put myself back together and be fine, and trust in his overall regard for me enough to be thrilled he spent what time he did enjoying me.

But getting there certainly did not happen over night. I'd say it took a little over two years to begin get to that point, and three years to be there without any issues over it.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 17

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 12:17:03 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

I agree that it is a case of mis-matched expectations. While a couple can relate what they like and dislike to each other and what their wants/needs/desires are, when it comes to fulfilling those wants and needs and desires, some people just hope for the best from their partner and hope that they have been clear enough that it gets done. But, a dominant and a submissive approach things from differing perspectives...makes sense, they are on differing sides of the cane. I can see where the dominant may have been totally satisfied right up until the submissive complained. I can see where the dominant was not only pleasing herself but pleasing the service side of the submissive. Wants and needs and desires were being satisfied on both sides. BUT, there were expectations for that "something else" that would have made it special for the submissive...perhaps being allowed to cum instead of being denied once again (and hoping not to create a bunch of flames here but let's be honest...I have seen many posts where the Mistress has noted that it is more often that sexual satisfaction is denied to their submissive than it is granted)...perhaps being allowed to have a more intimate play afterwards...we don't know. Were the dominant's expectations realized? Perhaps more so than the submissive's...she expected him to dress and serve and submit to the torture and go in the cage and yet, she also expected him to be satisfied with the time and attention she had lavished on him...and he wasn't.

I think it happens to dominants and submissives as regularly as it does to vanillas...and the ironic thing is that in D/s, it should not. With the communication we all say that we believe in, then should we not be expressing what we expect from a meeting OR a scene OR even time spent together and have the other person pay attention, even if they come at satisfying the expectations in differing ways?

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 18

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 1:01:47 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

Wow hours of play without any feedback?

That sounds like a seriously foolish arrangement to me. To falls onto both people's shoulders to look for, ask, and provide feedback so such a disjoint doesn't occur.

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TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 19

RE: Mismatched Playmates - 12/1/2007 4:27:28 PM

JackM1

Posts: 137
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

to be honest, it sounds like they wanted to be jerked off at some point and for it to be a sexual experience, not just a torture session...i find that guys generally think in terms of "sex=YAY!" and "torture/no sex=booorring"

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 20

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