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Miss Landmine - 11/20/2007 1:22:02 AM   
GoddessMine


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Miss Landmine

I have mixed feelings on this. It's a wonderful concept - to make those who are marginalized feel worthy and beautiful. However, I am against beauty pageants in general because I feel they objectify and exploit women. Then it's compounded by the fact that only the winners get prosthetic limbs. However, this also educates the international community about landmines and their effects on over 2 million people today.

Oy!

Love,
GM

< Message edited by GoddessMine -- 11/20/2007 1:25:43 AM >


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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/20/2007 10:43:42 AM   
djoker


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what? i dont think i quite followed your post. probably because you wanted to reply to another thread and instead, by accident, started another one.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/20/2007 11:08:27 AM   
HotFaerieMama


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i emailed the link to a few friends because i don't think any of them knew the repercussions of landmines being used.. i am against land mines ... i think they should be banned.. and yes everyone has a right to be beautiful and awareness needs to be brought forth on the landmine situtation.. i've watched several documentaires on the horrors that befall innocent people all because somone had to go and use landmines.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/20/2007 11:53:05 AM   
Stephann


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Banning landmines doesn't mean they won't be used.  It just means those who don't use them would be at a military disadvantage.  For me, it's like abortion; I think the practice is a terrible thing to do.  That doesn't mean I don't think there are situations where it shouldn't be practiced.

As for the pageant?  I honestly don't know what I make of it.  I can only assume the women involved are doing it freely, willingly, and even have fun doing it.  I don't see it in the least bit exploitative (at least on a sexual level.)  If anything, I would imagine it would be an opportunity for these women to assert a measure of control over what has happened to them.  Horrific things happen every day in this world; we don't have the power to stop all of them.  Being aware that they happen, on the other hand, helps prevent us from becoming complacent.

Stephan


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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/20/2007 12:07:03 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessMine

Miss Landmine

I have mixed feelings on this. It's a wonderful concept - to make those who are marginalized feel worthy and beautiful. However, I am against beauty pageants in general because I feel they objectify and exploit women. Then it's compounded by the fact that only the winners get prosthetic limbs. However, this also educates the international community about landmines and their effects on over 2 million people today.

Oy!

Love,
GM


Eh... I disagree with you about beauty pageants as I would consider not allowing the women to compete to be more oppressive. I like this idea though as it is a way of showing "You are still beautiful and very sexy". It also draws attention to the problem of land mines. I think as long as the women are having fun and enjoying it there isn't a problem.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/20/2007 1:43:47 PM   
sophia37


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Interesting to say the least. Especially the womens bio's. It was strange reading those. Like what their dream jobs are and what they actually do. The reality seemed to go against the photos of the women. Like any good art project, it definetly toyed with my mind. Im glad they got funding for it.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/20/2007 2:10:33 PM   
popeye1250


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I'm "for" landmines.
But, you can't just go burying them anywhere indiscriminately.
We (The U.S.) have them on S. Korea's border now for decades and they are very effective in keeping N. Koreans on their side of the border.
But, there is a big difference! You'd have to walk over razerwire fences and warning signs to enter the landmine zone.
I strongly suspect that many injuries are caused by ueo's "un-exploded ordinance" that is very unstable and not "only" landmines.
The message that minefields send is; " Keep Out, don't walk here and you won't get blown up."
You can't get more "humane" than that.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 8:53:15 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Banning landmines doesn't mean they won't be used.  It just means those who don't use them would be at a military disadvantage. 

 
....interesting logic. So by the same token we ought not ban chemical or biological weapons?
Seems to me that some weapons have a greater effect on civilians than others........or to put it another way, some weapons by their very nature kill civilians more than others. If we wish to be civilised then we have to put up with the odd disadvantage....because the advantages are worth the candle.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 9:00:40 AM   
CuriousLord


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Aww.. that's sad!  Well, at least the pagent thingie might help some of these women feel better about themselves?  (As much as I hate to have to confess it, I'm not educated enough on women's emotions to understand the numerous psycological effects this will have on the emotions of women involved, spectating, and hearing about this.)

On a lighter note, when I thought I clicked the link to the beauty pagent the first time, I ended up getting your profile.  :P

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 9:04:18 AM   
EPGAH


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Landmines only kill invaders--hopefully soldiers, but if employed on our own border, would kill a lot of sociopathic "civilians" eager to invade America for a better life.
Far more INDISCRIMINATELY deadly are unexploded bombs and/or artillery-shells, which are meant to detonate and destroy, and eventually will...when they get around to it...The problem being, these defective shells usually go off under the feet of civilians who have either forgotten about them, or actively seek them out to sell them as scrap-metal (The penultimate example of high-risk, high-reward greed!)

As to the other, we wouldn't need a ban on nuclear weapons if America had managed to KEEP the secret of atomic weaponry...well, SECRET! Now petty dictators from Korea to Iran are "testing" nukes...more to implicitly threaten the civilized world than for data...If all they wanted is data, they could visit Hiroshima and/or Nagasaki, and ask around...Or ask the Polynesians the French evacuated for their nuclear "tests"...or ask Mainland China for their data (The riskiest of all, China doesn't tolerate spying AGAINST them, although they have apparently no problem spying/buying secrets from other countries, most notably US!)

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 9:09:41 AM   
Politesub53


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Egpah how do landmines know who is an invader and who is a local working in the fields ect. I have to say if you could develop a landmine that smart you would become a very rich man indeed.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 9:27:44 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Landmines only kill invaders--hopefully soldiers, but if employed on our own border, would kill a lot of sociopathic "civilians" eager to invade America for a better life.


.......oh, you can not be serious......

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/07/25/colomb16475.htm
"Guerrillas’ use of antipersonnel landmines is having a devastating impact on civilians in Colombia,"

...and....

http://www.icbl.org/lm/2001/sri_lanka/
"In 2000 the total number of civilian landmine victims has been reported as 42 or 44.[28] However, based on hospital records and information provided by the Jaipur Foot Program, international organizations and non-governmental organizations, the Landmine Monitor researcher believes civilian casualties in 2000 could total 300 persons. "

...and finally, just to make the point...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_mine
"Anti-personnel land mines or APLs are widely considered to be unethical weapons when used in the area-denial role, because their victims are commonly civilians, who are often killed or maimed long after a war has ended. According to anti-land mine campaigners, in Cambodia alone, area-denial mines have resulted in 35,000 amputees after the cessation of hostilities."

.......i don't think the civilian population of Cambodia, while being in Cambodia, can be considered invaders.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 9:43:43 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Egpah how do landmines know who is an invader and who is a local working in the fields ect. I have to say if you could develop a landmine that smart you would become a very rich man indeed.


Sub53, lol, you don't put them in agricultural fields!
I don't know what the hell they did with them in Africa!
What, we're not supposed to use them because third-worlders messed up?
And, they do have "smart landmines!"
They can be turned on or off with the flip of a switch, they reveal their location to Troops if they want to remove them, they can detect tunneling beneith them and direct the explosion in that direction. So much for the "11 foot ladder or tunneling."
They'd be perfect for guarding our border with Mexico!
If you don't go where you're not supposed to go not one person would be hurt or killed by them.
What did they do with them in Africa, plant them all over the place and forget where they put them?
Of course you don't put them everywhere!
They're designed and suited for protecting borders, highly classified areas, ammo dumps, make shift and permanent encampments.
When I was in GTMO my many times there they'd tell us before going ashore to stay away from certain areas because they were mined and we did. We didn't lose anyone because of the mines!
Again, if you don't walk in a minefield you won't get blown up!
Gauranteed.

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 9:51:34 AM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

I can only assume the women involved are doing it freely, willingly, and even have fun doing it.  I don't see it in the least bit exploitative (at least on a sexual level.)  If anything, I would imagine it would be an opportunity for these women to assert a measure of control over what has happened to them.  Horrific things happen every day in this world; we don't have the power to stop all of them.  Being aware that they happen, on the other hand, helps prevent us from becoming complacent.

Stephan


 
Excellent post, Stephan :)
 
We are all TABs. that is Tempoarily Able Bodied.  Life throws curve balls (and land mines) all the time. 
 
One doesn't stop living because of misfortune.  As it is said.. what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.  These women have chosen to empower themselves via their situation.  It may be hard to look at, then raw truth is.   I commend them. :)
 

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 11/21/2007 10:33:33 AM >


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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 9:55:41 AM   
EPGAH


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If you can show me a landmine that can pick itself out of the dirt and move over to a living, breathing target before detonating, or even rebury itself in a "more advantageous" location, I'll not only apologize; I'll be greatly impressed!

As is, though, if told an area has been mined, and people walk on it anyways, you could consider it a Nietzschian/Darwinian thinning of the herd, or at least a mass-suicide of the unlucky! The ones who PLACED the mines know where they are and can avoid them--usually!
(Failure to avoid one's own bombs is generally considered dark humor!)
As to your figures, philosophy, the idea of terrorists--I'm sorry, "guerrillas"--using explosives, whether tripmines, remote-detonation roadside bombs, or even self-immolation bombs, has been well-documented, and can't exactly be considered a surprise in the classic sense of the word. Weapons can be either good or evil, depending who wields/deploys them...If a government doesn't use a weapon, or a CLASS of weapons, and the terrorists do, then the terrorists will have an advantage over the "fair-playing" government! Do you consider this twisted definition of "honor" more important than LIFE?
Or put another way, if you know your opponent is playing by an anything-goes playbook, why not show them that you can be better at "anything-goes" fighting than they are?
If a playground bully is going around and say, kicking other kids in the nuts, wouldn't a good swift kick in the nuts from an "adult" convince him that that hurts and he shouldn't do it? (Yes, this kind of punishment is illegal in America, the adult would be charged with assault and battery, child-abuse, and whatever, while the bully would be considered "misunderstood", and in need of sympathy, not correction!)

But remember also, landmines are used only because they WORK...I don't condone it necessarily, peasants in the field shouldn't have to carry a metal-detector any more than Americans taking a stroll down certain streets should have to wear body-armor just to survive! But we don't live in a perfect world, we either adapt to worsening circumstances, or we put an end (In any interpretation you'd like) to the entity or entities causing the problems.

Also, please note the current debate over land-mines intimately mirrors the arguments over assault-rifles: The police are prohibited from using them without special permissions, but they "magically" find their way into the hands of inner-city youths and disgruntled high-school students! Being a policeman or honest citizen is now MUCH more dangerous, but very few advocate upgrading the armaments of the police to match their enemies!

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 10:02:03 AM   
YourhandMyAss


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That's just it, though, mostplaces are not marked land mine fields any more years and years later, I don't think. And that's the problem. if they are marked then yeah duh stay out of that area.


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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 10:12:23 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

Landmines only kill invaders--hopefully soldiers, but if employed on our own border, would kill a lot of sociopathic "civilians" eager to invade America for a better life.


.......oh, you can not be serious......

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/07/25/colomb16475.htm
"Guerrillas’ use of antipersonnel landmines is having a devastating impact on civilians in Colombia,"

...and....

http://www.icbl.org/lm/2001/sri_lanka/
"In 2000 the total number of civilian landmine victims has been reported as 42 or 44.[28] However, based on hospital records and information provided by the Jaipur Foot Program, international organizations and non-governmental organizations, the Landmine Monitor researcher believes civilian casualties in 2000 could total 300 persons. "

...and finally, just to make the point...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_mine
"Anti-personnel land mines or APLs are widely considered to be unethical weapons when used in the area-denial role, because their victims are commonly civilians, who are often killed or maimed long after a war has ended. According to anti-land mine campaigners, in Cambodia alone, area-denial mines have resulted in 35,000 amputees after the cessation of hostilities."

.......i don't think the civilian population of Cambodia, while being in Cambodia, can be considered invaders.


Cambodia? What are they doing, putting them in rice paddys or something?
I wonder if there's any figures about S.Korea and someone "accidently" wandering into a minefield?
All these figures seem to be from third world countries.
What are *their* governments doing about this problem?
It doesn't sound like they're doing much, does it?

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 10:17:40 AM   
EPGAH


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Then that would be a failure of who/whatever passes for government in those places...Or someone just keeps taking down the signs (Assuming they were ever placed...Terrorist attacks usually aren't marked, otherwise they could be more easily disarmed or detonated harmlessly!)...Or maybe, they're so desperate, they'll start farming in minefields, heedless of the dangers.
The former is most likely...The middle would be an effective propaganda victory for the terrorists, to literally hit the civilians right where they live, and show that they're not safe anywhere--or possibly shoot at the poor fools whose job is to find the mines, thereby either flustering them so that they dodge a bullet right onto a mine, or vice-versa (I've read about the opposite happening: Terrorists forcing hostages to walk across government-established minefields as a living ablative "shield"!)...The last one is a worthwhile service to the world: Making clear the difference between heroism and self-euthanizing stupidity!

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 10:41:40 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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And it always seems to be in third world countries that these problems happen.
Then, the "anti-mine people" start comparing apples to oranges and come up with the proposition that the Western countries who use mines correctly "shouldn't have them" while third world countries continue to have them! lol Talk about convoluted logic!
All the injuries are in "third world" countries but they don't want "Western" countries to have mines!
Makes PERFECT sense to me!
And if you tried to keep them out of the hands of third world countries those same Rocket Scientists would say that it's "biased" or "predjudiced."
"Ok, no more mines for third world countries as they're TOO STUPID to have them! ("Hey, here's a button!" "Push it and see what it does!")
(Rocket Scientists) "Whoa, whoa, you can't *deny* third world countries the right to defend themselves!"

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RE: Miss Landmine - 11/21/2007 10:42:20 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

If you can show me a landmine that can pick itself out of the dirt and move over to a living, breathing target before detonating, or even rebury itself in a "more advantageous" location, I'll not only apologize; I'll be greatly impressed!

As is, though, if told an area has been mined, and people walk on it anyways, you could consider it a Nietzschian/Darwinian thinning of the herd, or at least a mass-suicide of the unlucky! The ones who PLACED the mines know where they are and can avoid them--usually!
(Failure to avoid one's own bombs is generally considered dark humor!)
As to your figures, philosophy, the idea of terrorists--I'm sorry, "guerrillas"--using explosives, whether tripmines, remote-detonation roadside bombs, or even self-immolation bombs, has been well-documented, and can't exactly be considered a surprise in the classic sense of the word. Weapons can be either good or evil, depending who wields/deploys them...If a government doesn't use a weapon, or a CLASS of weapons, and the terrorists do, then the terrorists will have an advantage over the "fair-playing" government! Do you consider this twisted definition of "honor" more important than LIFE?
Or put another way, if you know your opponent is playing by an anything-goes playbook, why not show them that you can be better at "anything-goes" fighting than they are?
If a playground bully is going around and say, kicking other kids in the nuts, wouldn't a good swift kick in the nuts from an "adult" convince him that that hurts and he shouldn't do it? (Yes, this kind of punishment is illegal in America, the adult would be charged with assault and battery, child-abuse, and whatever, while the bully would be considered "misunderstood", and in need of sympathy, not correction!)

But remember also, landmines are used only because they WORK...I don't condone it necessarily, peasants in the field shouldn't have to carry a metal-detector any more than Americans taking a stroll down certain streets should have to wear body-armor just to survive! But we don't live in a perfect world, we either adapt to worsening circumstances, or we put an end (In any interpretation you'd like) to the entity or entities causing the problems.

Also, please note the current debate over land-mines intimately mirrors the arguments over assault-rifles: The police are prohibited from using them without special permissions, but they "magically" find their way into the hands of inner-city youths and disgruntled high-school students! Being a policeman or honest citizen is now MUCH more dangerous, but very few advocate upgrading the armaments of the police to match their enemies!


Landmines are effective for decades....They continue to kill after resolutions have been reached. The Khmer Rouge is long gone but the millions of mines that they laid are still active. 

How your mind works is beyond me. All rifles regardless of the style have one thing in common, they must be pointed at their target to be effective...Landmines are indiscriminate killers....Over 25% of all people wounded by land mines are children....

One last note, I am much more leery about the police than I am the "inner city" youths or the disgruntled high school student.  In the future it might be wise to not put honest citizen and policeman in the same sentence.  I believe that there are many people who are much more concerned about  a run in with the police over having to deal with the inner city youths and their disgruntled high school student contemporaries.

I have read a few of your prior posts.....I have never agreed or found anything of value in any of them.



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