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Edwards rules - 11/15/2007 8:22:33 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Presidential canidate John Edwards wants to get the US out of Iraq and NAFTA, and since he's a Democrat he's probably for doing something about the US healthcare system. Can't get any better than that.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Edwards rules - 11/15/2007 8:24:37 PM   
Lumus


Posts: 5968
Joined: 9/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm sure what you said was deep and political...

but I was staring at your ass.


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RE: Edwards rules - 11/15/2007 8:27:03 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		And I'm staring at your pic Mr Keanu Reeves look alike.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: Edwards rules - 11/15/2007 9:02:16 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

since he's a Democrat



It takes more than a little r, d, or any other letter to get my vote. Party affiliation means nothing to me and never relects what they intend to do while in office. 

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I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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RE: Edwards rules - 11/15/2007 11:00:02 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		If there was any "winner" in that debate I guess you'd have to say it was Edwards.
He's the most mainstream and in touch with the American People of the lot of them.
In fairness Kuchinich wants to get us out of "NAFTA" too.
Hillery's a leftist, Abbadabba's a leftist, Richardson's a leftist and that other guy is too.
This REALLY isn't a good omen for the Democrats again!
Of course Hillary waffled, wants to "fix" Nafta.
If something is bad and smelling up the house in the trash can you don't try to "fix" it or wash it off and eat it, you put it in the garbage!
That's what we need to do with Nafta!
If Edwards really wants to win he's got to get away from that "comprehensive immigration reform" crap that the American People don't want by a super majority and that was shot down in the Senate in June (again!)
And he needs to do it soon!
ANY candidate who thinks they're going to dictate that shit to the American People needs to learn how to listen or that'll be the extent of it for them. "Candidate."
Gore and Kerry were for "comprehensive immigration reform" too!
It'll be worse for any candidate who tries to shove that stuff down our throats this time around.
There won't be any recount this time.

P.S. The moderator, I think Wolf Blitzer said that as soon as a candidate for "both" parties is nominated (I didn't realise that there were only two!) they'll be "racing to the center" to try and get the votes of Independant voters (like me!) "who hold the real power in this election."
Put it this way, giving anything to illegal aliens isn't real high on our list of things that need to be done.
Real simple, if a politician wants to go against my wishes they lost my vote.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/15/2007 11:20:16 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 4:59:23 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

If there was any "winner" in that debate I guess you'd have to say it was Edwards.
He's the most mainstream and in touch with the American People of the lot of them.
In fairness Kuchinich wants to get us out of "NAFTA" too.
Hillery's a leftist, Abbadabba's a leftist, Richardson's a leftist and that other guy is too.
This REALLY isn't a good omen for the Democrats again!
Of course Hillary waffled, wants to "fix" Nafta.
If something is bad and smelling up the house in the trash can you don't try to "fix" it or wash it off and eat it, you put it in the garbage!
That's what we need to do with Nafta!
If Edwards really wants to win he's got to get away from that "comprehensive immigration reform" crap that the American People don't want by a super majority and that was shot down in the Senate in June (again!)
And he needs to do it soon!
ANY candidate who thinks they're going to dictate that shit to the American People needs to learn how to listen or that'll be the extent of it for them. "Candidate."
Gore and Kerry were for "comprehensive immigration reform" too!
It'll be worse for any candidate who tries to shove that stuff down our throats this time around.
There won't be any recount this time.

P.S. The moderator, I think Wolf Blitzer said that as soon as a candidate for "both" parties is nominated (I didn't realise that there were only two!) they'll be "racing to the center" to try and get the votes of Independant voters (like me!) "who hold the real power in this election."
Put it this way, giving anything to illegal aliens isn't real high on our list of things that need to be done.
Real simple, if a politician wants to go against my wishes they lost my vote.


I seen the debate. It floors me that they cant just answer a question. Ild like to see a judge ask the questions.  yes or no. YES or NO. listen mutha-fccker- yes or no! 

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RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 5:15:27 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Getting out of NAFTA and thinking it would be a fix is naive, if low paid jobs don't go to Mexico, they will go elsewhere because US industries still has to compete with the rest of the world. A similar thing is happening in the EU, many industries have moved east with new members and a lot of labour has moved west. There has been some disgruntlement from increased competition for jobs but a rising living standard in the east has opened up new opportunities in the east for western Europe and the overall economy of the EU is increasing as a result. The problem is that if you want all the gains today with giving nothing away, it ain't going to happen. If NAFTA collapsed what would Mexico do, turn its back on the US and join the anti-US south American countries? NAFTA has political as well as economic gains and losses.

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RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 6:29:11 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		If getting out of NAFTA won't fix the problem, what will? We used to be an industrial society. Now countries overseas are becoming industrial and we are becoming service job oriented. If service jobs paid the same as the industrial jobs, I'd have no problem with outsourcing. Another solution would be to bring prices down on everything because of lower paying jobs. I don't see that happening either. They say a person's rent shouldn't cost any more than they make in a week. Well, how many service job employees can find an apartment for $200 per month? As for the war war on terror, terrorism can't be stopped because it's too widespread. Our healthcare system is a joke. Criminals in prison don't have to worry about having their health insurance cancelled. Those who are executed die by lethal injection while innocent Americans die slowly and painfully because they can't afford proper healthcare and prescription drugs. No wonder the US has more people in prison than other countries. If all else fails, commit a crime and you'll get the healthcare and medicine you need to stay alive. I can't understand why so many immigrants even want to come to the US. If I lived in a LDC (less developed country) and wanted to immigrate, I'd go somewhere that had a decent healthcare system. High gas prices, low paying jobs, and a lousy healthcare system. This country is really starting to suck. If things don't improve by the time I get out of college, I'm thinking of moving to Canada.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 6:43:42 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		If American companies don't outsource they won't be able to compete in the international market place. Yep, they could produce products in the US but who will buy them at the price they will cost? I doubt many Americans, no matter what they say they will do, will buy a TV for $400 when they can buy the same quality product manufactured in the far east for $200. America, like other advanced industrial economies need to concentrate on new and hi-tech products for which people will pay a premium. But let's get realistic here, Germany exports more industrial products than the US so not all America's problems are wage costs, Germans workers earn more and have better social provision than American workers.

As for US healthcare, that is not a matter of not being able to afford healthcare for everyone, the problem there is that America is ideologically attached to private healthcare. Americans pay more for healthcare than any other advanced industrialized country.

There is really nothing wrongf with America that America can't afford to put right. From where I stand it is American socio-economic and political ideology that is the problem and the belief that American answers to a problem is always the right answer.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/16/2007 6:45:19 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 7:03:22 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

If there was any "winner" in that debate I guess you'd have to say it was Edwards.
He's the most mainstream and in touch with the American People of the lot of them.
In fairness Kuchinich wants to get us out of "NAFTA" too.
Hillery's a leftist, Abbadabba's a leftist, Richardson's a leftist and that other guy is too.
This REALLY isn't a good omen for the Democrats again!
Of course Hillary waffled, wants to "fix" Nafta.
If something is bad and smelling up the house in the trash can you don't try to "fix" it or wash it off and eat it, you put it in the garbage!
That's what we need to do with Nafta!
If Edwards really wants to win he's got to get away from that "comprehensive immigration reform" crap that the American People don't want by a super majority and that was shot down in the Senate in June (again!)
And he needs to do it soon!
ANY candidate who thinks they're going to dictate that shit to the American People needs to learn how to listen or that'll be the extent of it for them. "Candidate."
Gore and Kerry were for "comprehensive immigration reform" too!
It'll be worse for any candidate who tries to shove that stuff down our throats this time around.
There won't be any recount this time.

P.S. The moderator, I think Wolf Blitzer said that as soon as a candidate for "both" parties is nominated (I didn't realise that there were only two!) they'll be "racing to the center" to try and get the votes of Independant voters (like me!) "who hold the real power in this election."
Put it this way, giving anything to illegal aliens isn't real high on our list of things that need to be done.
Real simple, if a politician wants to go against my wishes they lost my vote.


I seen the debate. It floors me that they cant just answer a question. Ild like to see a judge ask the questions.  yes or no. YES or NO. listen mutha-fccker- yes or no! 


PaHunk, lmao! You noticed that too did you?
Well, like the saying goes, "when you try to please everyone, you please no-one!"
I think Edwards is the only one who really has a chance.
Leftists just don't win elections in this country.
But, I do like alot of Kuchinich's platform too!
As for Hillary, what (is) her platform? Anyone know?
Some people say they like Hillary like "Owner59" here but if you ask them why they can't answer you! Usually something about "how bad Bush is."
If you ask them where she stands on certain issues their eyes glaze over and they can't answer you because she won't *TELL* us where she stands on certain issues except that she is going against more than 90% of the American People on "comprehensive immigration reform" which translates into "amnesty" for illegal aliens!
It's not an "immigration problem" it's an "illegal alien problem."
The American People *broke the Senate phone system* with an Overwhelming number of calls against "C.I.R.!"
These candidates seem to think it's "ok" to break our laws and not enforce them for whatever reason.
I guess they must think that "their platform" trumps "our laws."
Ah,..... correct me if I'm wrong but isn't THAT what we have in the White House right now?
Isn't that exactly what Bush is doing?

And Hillary in dodging a question from Senator Abbadabba turns to the audience and says;  "WE NEED A POSITIVE AGENDA FOR AMERICA!"
Huh? What the *fuck* does that mean?
Talk about lame. Again, platitudes, she managed not to say anything!
Maybe I could use that in here everytime someone asks me a tough question; "Popeye, what do you think about getting the Troops out of Iraq?"
"WTF! WE NEED A POSITIVE AGENDA FOR AMERICA!"
lol

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/16/2007 7:13:03 AM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 7:03:43 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		If all the industrial jobs were brought back to the US or if service jobs paid the same fair wage that industrial jobs used to pay, there would be no need to compete in the global economy. This country would do just fine on its own. Not competing in the global economy was what made this country a MDC (more developed country). The global economy is turning the US into a LDC (less developed country). Avoiding the global economy is what makes a country strong. As for TV's, I would gladly pay $400 if I made $20/hr. Some Americans want privatized healthcare because they are being brainwashed into thinking universal healthcare means poor healthcare. They don't know that US doctors are given bonuses to turn patients away while the salaries of universal healthcare doctors are increased for providing top quality healthcare. They don't know that Canadians don't have to wait any longer to see a doctor than Americans do. They also don't know that those who see the truth and are powerful enough to enact change are being paid off by pharmaceutical companies.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 11/16/2007 8:29:19 AM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 7:14:38 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		America's problems are small and could easily be put right by a good administration. However, withdrawing from the global economy really isn't a realistic option. If you look at where things have gone wrong for the US, it is bad foreign policy and iladvised interference in other countries.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 7:20:29 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

If all the industrial jobs were brought back to the US or if service jobs paid the same fair wage that industrial jobs used to pay, there would be no need to compete in the global economy. This country would do just fine on its own. Not competing in the global economy was what made this country a MDC (more developed country). The global economy is turning the US into a LDC (less developed country). Avoiding the global economy is what makes a country strong. As for TV's, I would gladly pay $400 if I made $20/hr. Some Americans want privatized healthcare because they are being brainwashed into thinking universal healthcare means poor healthcare. They don't know that US doctors are given bonuses to turn patients away while the salaries of universal healthcare doctors are increased for providing top quality healthcare. They don't know that Canadians don't have to wait any longer to see a doctor than Americans do. They also don't know that those who see the truth are being paid off by pharmaceutical companies.


defiantbadgirl, that's the whole point!
We're not*competing* against those foreign countries.
Our markets are wide open to them!
We give them "foreign aid!"
Our companies leave the U.S. and we REWARD them by letting them have access to *our* markets!
This is insanity!
The rich get richer and the working/middle class get poorer.
This has to come to a screaching halt!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 7:47:06 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Getting out of NAFTA and thinking it would be a fix is naive, if low paid jobs don't go to Mexico, they will go elsewhere because US industries still has to compete with the rest of the world. A similar thing is happening in the EU, many industries have moved east with new members and a lot of labour has moved west. There has been some disgruntlement from increased competition for jobs but a rising living standard in the east has opened up new opportunities in the east for western Europe and the overall economy of the EU is increasing as a result. The problem is that if you want all the gains today with giving nothing away, it ain't going to happen. If NAFTA collapsed what would Mexico do, turn its back on the US and join the anti-US south American countries? NAFTA has political as well as economic gains and losses.


Meat, I don't know where to even begin on this.
How's this, *The American People* didn't want Nafta 13 years ago when Clinton pushed it through a Lame Duck Congress in Dec of 1994 and now we *REALLY* don't want it!
I could fill 50 pages in here (pages) of why it's bad for America.
Mr. Patrick Buchanan did a much better job than I could.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/16/2007 7:49:25 AM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 7:56:36 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Have you actually read his 'plan' for ending the situation in Iraq?  'Let Congress handle it'.

Yeah, that's worked soooo well up to now. 

Same Congress that repealed the Patriot Act, 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', ended warrantless wiretaps and secret courts, and told the FCC and the FBI to find something more important than obscenity to pursue, right?


Riiiiiiight.

Another $300 haircut firmly in the clutches of the status quo, but willing to pretend to support anything he thinks will get him more power..

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RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 9:21:12 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

America's problems are small and could easily be put right by a good administration. However, withdrawing from the global economy really isn't a realistic option. If you look at where things have gone wrong for the US, it is bad foreign policy and iladvised interference in other countries.


What has gone wrong in the US is outsourcing jobs that once paid a living wage. Minimum wage is not living wage and many service jobs pay very little over minimum wage. I don't see anyone lowering prices enough to compensate for that. The price of heating a home has increased, not decreased. I don't see landlords charging less to rent houses and apartments. Many people with full time jobs are homeless because they can't afford rent, utilities, and food. If they can't afford that, how are they going to pay for health insurance? For an adult to get Medicaid, they have to either be pregnant or receiving a disability check. Unless the US lowers prices on everything to the same rates they charge in Mexico, there is no way this global economy thing is going to work. How is the administration going to force landlords and utility companies to lower their prices? The easiest way to fix this problem is to make outsourcing illegal which would bring all the good jobs back and to make healthcare universal.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 12:00:15 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

America's problems are small and could easily be put right by a good administration. However, withdrawing from the global economy really isn't a realistic option. If you look at where things have gone wrong for the US, it is bad foreign policy and iladvised interference in other countries.


What has gone wrong in the US is outsourcing jobs that once paid a living wage. Minimum wage is not living wage and many service jobs pay very little over minimum wage. I don't see anyone lowering prices enough to compensate for that. The price of heating a home has increased, not decreased. I don't see landlords charging less to rent houses and apartments. Many people with full time jobs are homeless because they can't afford rent, utilities, and food. If they can't afford that, how are they going to pay for health insurance? For an adult to get Medicaid, they have to either be pregnant or receiving a disability check. Unless the US lowers prices on everything to the same rates they charge in Mexico, there is no way this global economy thing is going to work. How is the administration going to force landlords and utility companies to lower their prices? The easiest way to fix this problem is to make outsourcing illegal which would bring all the good jobs back and to make healthcare universal.


Badgirl, well said!
I'd like to see a few companies go bankrupt like Mattel and Hanes underware co.
I will not buy anything from them.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 12:43:22 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

.............. This country would do just fine on its own. Not competing in the global economy was what made this country a MDC (more developed country). The global economy is turning the US into a LDC (less developed country). Avoiding the global economy is what makes a country strong........


......and what would the US use to pay the rest of the world for the raw materials that are, inconveniently, in other countries? Over-priced American made goods? A dollar with no use anywhere except the USA? Isolationism may, arguably, make sense in a pre-industrial society, but it is suicide for a post-industrial one.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 1:36:59 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

.............. This country would do just fine on its own. Not competing in the global economy was what made this country a MDC (more developed country). The global economy is turning the US into a LDC (less developed country). Avoiding the global economy is what makes a country strong........


......and what would the US use to pay the rest of the world for the raw materials that are, inconveniently, in other countries? Over-priced American made goods? A dollar with no use anywhere except the USA? Isolationism may, arguably, make sense in a pre-industrial society, but it is suicide for a post-industrial one.


Phil, that's easy you just declare bankruptcy and start again.
Tell China and all the traitor former U.S. companies who moved to China to piss off.
Working and middle class people are really hurting in the U.S. and we want no more of this "global economy."
I don't know why you insist that the U.S. keep going in the wrong direction?
What's in it for you?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 1:53:43 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Popeye:  you have some cogent and brilliant observations.  What much of the typical folk think- you are able to put your finger on it.  The debate reminded me- how when I worked at a gas station- the man who emptied the coins in it.  He told me they were eliminating my location. I asked where the next air pump was. Well- he tried to get me to send folks 12 miles away. When I said- so you would ride on tire rim, to use that pump?   [a competitors was closer]  The man would not lower himself to say he would ruin his rims, OR buy from the competition!

Dennis got a good swipe- when he said we need a president who is right the 1st time.

I had considerred re-registerring as a democrat. [I am non affiliated, always have been]  In PA= non affiliations cant vote in the primary. Well not for prez. [ballot initiatives are ok]  I like Dennis. He seems as non-corporate as anyone can ever get.

Did you think the "thank yous" to the vet were-  phonyish?  They did seem abit- well- just for the soundbite!
?

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