Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Edwards rules


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Edwards rules Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 2:29:31 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
Pahunk, well I listen to what people are saying and watch a lot of News shows so that's what I base my opinions on.
Like Lou Dobbs I'm an "Independant Populist" I guess.
Iwant to do well financially but I want to see other people doing well financially too.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 2:39:05 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What has gone wrong in the US is outsourcing jobs that once paid a living wage. Minimum wage is not living wage and many service jobs pay very little over minimum wage. I don't see anyone lowering prices enough to compensate for that. The price of heating a home has increased, not decreased. I don't see landlords charging less to rent houses and apartments. Many people with full time jobs are homeless because they can't afford rent, utilities, and food. If they can't afford that, how are they going to pay for health insurance? For an adult to get Medicaid, they have to either be pregnant or receiving a disability check. Unless the US lowers prices on everything to the same rates they charge in Mexico, there is no way this global economy thing is going to work. How is the administration going to force landlords and utility companies to lower their prices? The easiest way to fix this problem is to make outsourcing illegal which would bring all the good jobs back and to make healthcare universal.


Can't agree with you.

We already tax imports because they 'threaten' us, even if they are products that are the outsourced product of American companies. 

Bemoaning the good old days also bemoans the bad old days for other countries.  No small numbers of countries were pummelled into submission, because they refused to open their ports to foreign powers.  If we're not earning a living wage, it's because we've forced other countries to accept a dying wage too.  The source of fault, in this case, is cultural on our parts and not economic.  The solution won't be to fight off foreign imports, but to rather realize that we must advance educationally and technologically if we wish to maintain any position of economic leadership.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 2:40:07 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Presidential canidate John Edwards wants to get the US out of Iraq and NAFTA, and since he's a Democrat he's probably for doing something about the US healthcare system. Can't get any better than that.


I have to say that the only thing that bothers Me about the OP is the statement bolded above.  It happens that Edwards is for doing something about the US healthcare system, but I hate to see any voter make an assumption that because he's a democrat he is probably for it, and that is all said voter needs to know.
I have read his preferred plan and I don't like it for the simple reason that I am opposed to anything that forces parents to do something in a personal area.  I understand the sentiment behind it, but it still bothers Me and see it as just another way for the PTB to garner more control over personal decisions.  I am not here to argue whether we should have univesal health care in this country.  I am simply stating that Edwards does have a plan, and it happens to be one that makes Me personally uncomfortable.
That said...for your reading perusal, here is Edwards' plan.   It may not be all that you think it is, or you may think it is the most wonderful idea that ever was.  But I alway feel it is better for voters to be specifically informed than to assume. 
 
 

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Edwards rules - 11/16/2007 6:23:22 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
DustyGold, I agree!
The reason I watched that whole debate last night was because I want to know where all those candidates *stand on the issues.*
The only ones who were forthcomming were Edwards and Kuchinich.
Kuchinich has been very good like that, he says what he means and doesn't pull any punches. I like that open honest style in a candidate!
I'd check into Edward's site and look into "The Issues" to see what he has to say about healthcare.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Edwards rules - 11/17/2007 12:02:57 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't know why you insist that the U.S. keep going in the wrong direction?
What's in it for you?


....nothing, but some of my best friends are American and i care what happens to them. i know we disagree on this point, but it's a genuine disagreement, i honestly think you're wrong.......and i think, long term, people like you would suffer from isolationism.
Also i note that you haven't really answered my question.......how would an isolationist USA pay for the raw materials it needs from other countries?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Edwards rules - 11/17/2007 1:20:36 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I don't know why you insist that the U.S. keep going in the wrong direction?
What's in it for you?


....nothing, but some of my best friends are American and i care what happens to them. i know we disagree on this point, but it's a genuine disagreement, i honestly think you're wrong.......and i think, long term, people like you would suffer from isolationism.
Also i note that you haven't really answered my question.......how would an isolationist USA pay for the raw materials it needs from other countries?


Phil, I don't mean we should stop doing business with "all" countries just most of them.
There's no reason that we need to be doing business or having relations with "all" countries.
Yeah, I could get hurt, what happens if I run out of cheap, plastic ,dangerous junk from China?
Come to think of it, I am running a little short on Bone Necklaces from third world countries!


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Edwards rules - 11/17/2007 3:00:14 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I They don't know that US doctors are given bonuses to turn patients away while the salaries of universal healthcare doctors are increased for providing top quality healthcare. They don't know that Canadians don't have to wait any longer to see a doctor than Americans do.


LOL that is a real laugh !!!! <sarcasm> Obviously your not in Ontario  dealing with our Canadian health care or watching people die because of long waits to see specialists  or having a lack of a doctor

Doctors here have their wages capped, that is the reason many quit their practices here either retiring early or left to move to the US to practice medicine leaving us with a severe shortage of doctors..

How many Americans have to wait 3 years or more just to get a family doctor?  How long do they have to wait to get and appointment with their family doctor????......over 3 weeks from the day you phone for an appointment????? How long do you have to wait for an emergency surgery???? ... I have been waiting since the beginning of September when I went to ER due to hemorraging and a tumor was found.........  my emergency surgery is scheduled for December 3rd ,,,, a 3 month wait, the ER doctor had to phones several surgeons to finally find one after the second call to move my surgery ahead by a month.... luckily other than some major fatigue at times I have been holding up well despite the hemorraging, but the joke is if I get fatigue or start feeling light headed I am told to go to my own doctor but I can't get in to see him for 4 weeks minimum, now even longer because another doctor there quit the practice so an 8 week wait.   

I know of 2 cancer patients who have had 4 month waits and ended up with cancer that mestasized , one was my sons age, he died as a result, 25 years ago emergency surgery meant you were in the hospital within a week for me my cancer surgery I was in, in 5 days, my son who had blood show up in his urine was booked in right away by his doctor so had to head there right after his doctors visit.      I know of a person at work whose father requires  heart surgery, the doctor basically told him they don't want to deprive a younger person of surgery space, so  would not schedule his father into surgery saying he had a long enough life why buy him a couple more years?   My son has broken his arm on a weekend, and I fell at night down some stairs ...... too bad for the timing not x-ray technicians are on hand, so just splint and give pain killers and send you home until a technician comes on duty.   How about being pregnant and either about to deliver or having a miscarriage and getting to the hospital and be told I am sorry but we have no room for you...... you need to try a hospital 60 miles away.   How about being booked for surgery not eating the night before and then spend the next day in the hospital waiting only to be told at the end of the day......"sorry but we can't doing your surgery today....... we will have to rebook" --- this just happened to my former domm, 2 weeks ago who has had 2 gall bladder attacks already has been waiting since the end of July for his surgery and is left still waiting.    Ask yourself how do you get physicals or annual paps when you do not have a family doctor ????   Emergency rooms are being tied up with people who have no doctors or for colds and flus,  often minor things because long waits to get into seeing a family doctor if you are lucky enough to have one.    If you don't like your family doctor or question the care your recieving .....tough titty ..... you don't have the freedom to seek out another doctor ...for one because there is such a shortage and also you cannot see another doctor without have to first apply to the medical board for permission to change doctors and they decide whether your reason is valid.    The list of problems here go on and on, we are taxed 40% on our pay checks and then also pay a health tax now weekly as well, not including municipal taxes or sales and goods and services tax, and the surcharges on both federal and provincial taxes.  On paper I earn $60,000 but after taxes it is around $25,000. my actual spendable income has been going downhill over the last 15 years leaving me poorer despite my raises and next contract we are being threatened with serious wage cuts, believe me  I pay heavily for the current health care system  or what little we have of it , and ontop of it many of the services that was once covered now has user fees.  My dad had to wait 6 months to get into see a cardiologist when he started having chest pains, he went to the hospital during one attack which when he was first diagnosed as having heart problem he was back home 6 hours later( 4 hours was waiting time to see the ER doctor )  with a prescription for nitroglycerin in order to manage his chest pains until he could get into see the specialist for further diagnostic testing to determine how serious his heart is.  I would much rather be paying actual costs and get health care in a timely manner rather than paying $15,000 a year  for a current service that often is totally useless to me  or forces me to become a burden on ERservices simply because I cannot get in to see my own doctor in a timely manner or because I don't have a family doctor and there is no way my diagnostic tests and treatment for the flu 2 years ago costed the $30,000 I paid in taxes.  20 to 25 years ago I had no complaints with being taxed for medical because I was recieving quality care but now I am get taxed and obscenely high amount  for very substandard service,  the sad part is I can get far better health care services for my 4 dogs, at far less cost  than  I am getting for myself  and  lot of the treatments are identical  as they are for human, they even use the exact same anesthesias.  I know someone in the US who was diagnosed with cancer about a month and a half after I was told I needed emergency surgery, he had his surgery within a week and started chemo  treatments and I still wait.........

< Message edited by Maya2001 -- 11/17/2007 3:04:05 PM >


_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Edwards rules - 11/17/2007 3:24:18 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

How many Americans have to wait 3 years or more just to get a family doctor?


Sounds like the VA or TennCare.

(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Edwards rules - 11/17/2007 3:26:48 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

I know someone in the US who was diagnosed with cancer about a month and a half after I was told I needed emergency surgery, he had his surgery within a week and started chemo  treatments and I still wait.........


....and i know someone in the UK who recieved even more timely treatment for breast cancer than your US friend. From the NHS.  It's not about whether its a nationalised health care service, its about how it is run.
Seems to me that the problem with the Canadian NHS is not that its nationalised. It's far more to do with a terminally weak fifth estate and an acceptence of political corruption by way too many Canadians.

(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Edwards rules - 11/17/2007 3:34:02 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

I know someone in the US who was diagnosed with cancer about a month and a half after I was told I needed emergency surgery, he had his surgery within a week and started chemo  treatments and I still wait.........


....and i know someone in the UK who recieved even more timely treatment for breast cancer than your US friend. From the NHS.  It's not about whether its a nationalised health care service, its about how it is run.
Seems to me that the problem with the Canadian NHS is not that its nationalised. It's far more to do with a terminally weak fifth estate and an acceptence of political corruption by way too many Canadians.


You are correct we had universal health care 25 years ago and it was working fine, problems developed when the politicians decided how much a doctor should be allowed to earn and capped their wages, once that happened the doctors rebelled or left and services went down the tubes


_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Edwards rules - 11/17/2007 4:12:59 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

I know someone in the US who was diagnosed with cancer about a month and a half after I was told I needed emergency surgery, he had his surgery within a week and started chemo  treatments and I still wait.........


....and i know someone in the UK who recieved even more timely treatment for breast cancer than your US friend. From the NHS.  It's not about whether its a nationalised health care service, its about how it is run.
Seems to me that the problem with the Canadian NHS is not that its nationalised. It's far more to do with a terminally weak fifth estate and an acceptence of political corruption by way too many Canadians.


Bold emphasis Mine...
Truer words were never spoken, philosophy.
With the current track record of the US government, should I trust that these grand plans being offered as the ultimate solution will be run correctly and efficiently and fairly?
I forgot to put on My rose colored glass when I looked at the horizon, and I saw it not working.
I have heard some horror stories about the NHS, also.  And more than a few negative anecdotes from other European countries.  Nothing is perfect in this world, but at least right now I can see a doctor, get reasonably quick treatment at an emergency room and not have to wait months if I was to need surgery.  I am hesitant to trade that in for something that has all the earmarks of turning into a nightmare. 
Just My opinion, of course.
 

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Edwards rules - 11/19/2007 5:54:47 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Presidential canidate John Edwards wants to get the US out of Iraq and NAFTA, and since he's a Democrat he's probably for doing something about the US healthcare system. Can't get any better than that.


I have to say that the only thing that bothers Me about the OP is the statement bolded above.  It happens that Edwards is for doing something about the US healthcare system, but I hate to see any voter make an assumption that because he's a democrat he is probably for it, and that is all said voter needs to know.
I have read his preferred plan and I don't like it for the simple reason that I am opposed to anything that forces parents to do something in a personal area.  I understand the sentiment behind it, but it still bothers Me and see it as just another way for the PTB to garner more control over personal decisions.  I am not here to argue whether we should have univesal health care in this country.  I am simply stating that Edwards does have a plan, and it happens to be one that makes Me personally uncomfortable.
That said...for your reading perusal, here is Edwards' plan.   It may not be all that you think it is, or you may think it is the most wonderful idea that ever was.  But I alway feel it is better for voters to be specifically informed than to assume.  
 


Edwards is a potential Presidential candidate who has made it clear that he's a son of a poor sharecropper...hmmmmm....let's see....since 2000.

If I recall...that was pretty much his stump speech for all of the first go around.

(Redundantly).

His father couldn't afford something or other....(might have been an apartment....could have been a $600,000.00 combine...I can't exactly recall...maybe it was insurance for his little lapdog sharpee')...

The man makes a kabillion dollars a year suing large corporations (some are nice and fuzzy issues like a poor southern girl in a wheelchair....some ain't) and he has this nice little twang that lends itself well to his homespun image.

But trust me folks....he ain't downhome....and he ain't any kind of country fed shucks "I'm one of you" nothing.

He's a fucking wealthy lawyer that wants a shot at his place in history.

He'd like a place in your kids reading habits in 2027.  It's that fucking simple.

And he might actually do something good for the bulk of us.  And then again...maybe not.

All you gotta do is watch him for about 7 minutes and you can easily read through his shit.

McCain, Hillary, Gulliani, Obama....none of those pricks give a fuck about you...or me.

Now....where's it gonna go from here?

Who's gonna make their mark in history....in a way that actually benefits you and me?

If you're a Republican...you might choose Gulliani.  Democrats...you might choose Hillary.

Both of those people actually believe they can make a difference.

Gulliani thinks his stay in NY actually made a difference.  He was in the right place at the right time.

Hillary actually thinks that all that shit she did in the early 90's with health care was valid.

She was partially correct.

Like all government plans and policies...it starts small...it got everyone thinking.

Businesses were against it.  I was.  I own several.

Back then health care was possibly as much as 4% of my total sales.

Today it's closer to 21%.

I actually supported her plan...even though I've been a devout Republican my entire adult life.

She lost...it simmered.

For almost 15 years.

As a lifelong, devout Republican....I can say I really don't care for the Democrats position on damn near everything...however....

Here's the facts....

When she and her husband were running the show....we had a surplus...(yes...I know all the reasons why that may have been...I've run the numbers....it's still simple math no matter who has the keys)....we were supposed to blow out the debt and deficit...in a matter of a few years or a decade...

Reagan tripled the debt.

Bush added...oh....just a smidge more.

Republicans.

I don't really give a rats ass if it's Hillary....or some other Democrat....

(But I sure as fuck ain't voting for a Republican).







< Message edited by Griswold -- 11/19/2007 6:01:27 PM >

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 32
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Edwards rules Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125