quote:

I need to look into my Master’s eyes and know he sees a capable and healthy human being that can take care of herself and not one that sees some broken and inferior person.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

because when dealing with another person you cannot take control without crawling inside their heads and as far as i know, that is impossible

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

For those that think that others cant make them happy then you have never seen a good comedian.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

FR...

i am not sure who said that a submissive is not equal to a Dominant...which is why i am using fast reply and not quoting...

i disagree with that...and it may be a case of semantics....i believe a submissive is different that a Dominant....but equal...because there must be power to give up, for a power exchange to go on....they are inherently different...that is what draws us to the D/s side of this lifestyle...but they are not unequal....when people are unequal, that tends to lead to one person draining on the other and leaving them a shell of a person....and then the other one moves on to the next person when the there is nothing left to drain...whether it be energy or life or power....

chelle

quote:

when people are unequal, that tends to lead to one person draining on the other and leaving them a shell of a person

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

In other words they enjoy fixing an inferior being because they just know how to do things better then others and enjoys that feeling. The control the OP talks about comes from not thinking of the other as an equal.

Yep....I agree, thats not a good or healthy thing to have present in a relationship..... So we are on the same page after all it seems

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

quote:

I'm a Dominant because I want to provide control.

Scott, I like your epithany ...

I have a lot of vanilla friends ... when first meeting me (knowing I identified as a dominant female) they expected to find me barking orders and demanding their acquiesence ...when the reality was ...it was nice to be around people I (now love and adore) who do not require me to be 'in control' all the time ... but put a subservient creature in my midst and I love nothing more than giving them the opportunity to stand in their own light ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

To get the background of why I'm posting this, you'll have to check my latest journal entry. (No! I'm NOT being an attention whore! LOL) It would be simpler this way. :) I know, some of you won't read the journal entry, and that's okay. You'll miss the point of this post. :)

The Question is:

What would make you happy?

The short version of my answer is this:

I'm not a Dominant because I want control. I'm a Dominant because I want to provide control. That and structure for others to benefit by. Until recently, my failing has been to not ask The Question. Of myself and not of others. I guess you could say I had an epiphany this morning and I just had to share. Read the journal and you'll see.

FYI: I rarely do journals, but recently, I felt a need to try. I'm a poor writer in my opinion. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Scott, we're different as to why we're dominant.  I have no desire to provide structure and control as any sort of service, I provide it as a means of getting what I want.  That's just a difference in personal style and I don't believe either is right or wrong.  Dale Carnegie, among many others, was a strong advocate of what might be called "service oriented leadership".  That is, leaders who do so in order to serve the needs of others, to better others.  If that works for you and makes you happy, good for you!  Personally, it would not work for me, I'm just not oriented that way.  There are pitfalls to everything, what happens when you can't fix someone, or when the person you depend on for happiness is gone?  But likewise, for myself, what happens if I fail in my goals... what happens when there is no one to pick me up but me... and what if I can't?  Nothing is perfect, and no matter what any of us chooses there will always be risks.  Life is a matter of choosing what risks we can accept and cope with... and that's a personal choice for each of us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

In other words they enjoy fixing an inferior being because they just know how to do things better then others and enjoys that feeling. The control the OP talks about comes from not thinking of the other as an equal.

Yep....I agree, thats not a good or healthy thing to have present in a relationship..... So we are on the same page after all it seems

I didn't realize I came across as so unenlightened and provincial. I know I didn't use or imply inferior or anti-equality attitudes.

I have to nip this in the bud. I'll do my best to help clarify for you two.

Fixing implies something is broken. For myself, I fix and repair many things, and enjoy doing so. Kinesthetic activity can have a meditative effect for me and helps me recenter. Also, as it relates to another human, if there is some physical injury, I can, in a limited scope, provide a diagnosis, some minor treatment, even bring to bear some triage, but I'm not a doctor, who are trained to fix people.

Emotionally, I can provide some therapy or therapeutic activity, but, ultimately, as any therapist will agree, I cannot 'fix' them. They have to do that themselves, or fail to do that themselves. To a limited extent, I can provide some control to facilitate that, say for instance, a controlled environment that will be helpful for some one to recover from emotional distress without additional distractions until they can manage again. We all get hammered down when we get overwhelmed, and often retreat to a refuge to recover, regroup and sometimes rebuild.

However, when I said I enjoy providing control, you misunderstood. Providing control doesn't 'fix' anyone or anything, and I certainly didn't suggest that my enjoyment involved 'an inferior being'. With some minor exceptions, perhaps only one, there are no real inferior human beings. In fact, I just don't know how you got 'inferior being' out of my entry and posting. It just baffles me.

My enjoyment from providing control involves an environment where a sub would be free to express herself emotionally, intellectually and sexually, and learn how to develop, expand and enhance those areas. I rather look at it as providing physical therapy for a hand that has been clenched tight for too long. It'll hurt like hell at first, but with a lot of sweat and tears, you can get it open and have it fully functional again, if not stronger, more supple and dexterous. In my case, I seek out the feminine potential in a sub. 

From what I've seen so far, the feminine potential is breathtakingly beautiful. This also allows me to explore the masculine potential in myself as well. In a society where the feminine and the masculine are crushed for the sake of equality even in relationships, I know that freedom that would be welcome relief. I will say you're right about viewing my sub, wherever she is, as not my equal. A woman, in my view, is a complement to a man, not an equal. Emotional and physical equality is a rather horrific thought to me. I do, however, agree with social and intellectual equality between genders.

As humans, we have a tendency to do little in half measures, and often take things to extremes with too much focus on results and too little on consequences, if at all. I'll agree that we have done a great deal of good socially and intellectually by teaching, preaching and enforcing equality, but physically and emotionally, it's been an unmitigated disaster. One that we're trying to resolve with ever greater quantities of medication as we get closer and closer to the 'utopia' of absolute equality.

We should have focused more on individual talent and capability, then gender equality. It would have taken longer, but we probably would have benefited more as a society, (not to mention suffered less) rather than the 'quick fix' which, as you know, is rarely a fix, and in the long run, never quick. There's always more damage to repair and takes even longer to get the desired result.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

To get the background of why I'm posting this, you'll have to check my latest journal entry. (No! I'm NOT being an attention whore! LOL) It would be simpler this way. :) I know, some of you won't read the journal entry, and that's okay. You'll miss the point of this post. :)

The Question is:

What would make you happy?

The short version of my answer is this:

I'm not a Dominant because I want control. I'm a Dominant because I want to provide control. That and structure for others to benefit by. Until recently, my failing has been to not ask The Question. Of myself and not of others. I guess you could say I had an epiphany this morning and I just had to share. Read the journal and you'll see.

FYI: I rarely do journals, but recently, I felt a need to try. I'm a poor writer in my opinion. :)

The problem with the epiphany in my opinion is that rarely to people fit in such neat boxes.  Survivors can become victims or victimizers in other areas of their lives.  Dom/mes and subs alike struggle and need help with things from the other. In my opinion, roles aside, it's a relationship which should be based first on friendship and compatibility.  To presume the Dom/me is doing "fixing" alone or doesn't at times need "fixing" themselves at times would be selling the relationship short in my opinion.  Balance is everything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

To get the background of why I'm posting this, you'll have to check my latest journal entry. (No! I'm NOT being an attention whore! LOL) It would be simpler this way. :) I know, some of you won't read the journal entry, and that's okay. You'll miss the point of this post. :)

The Question is:

What would make you happy?

The short version of my answer is this:

I'm not a Dominant because I want control. I'm a Dominant because I want to provide control. That and structure for others to benefit by. Until recently, my failing has been to not ask The Question. Of myself and not of others. I guess you could say I had an epiphany this morning and I just had to share. Read the journal and you'll see.

FYI: I rarely do journals, but recently, I felt a need to try. I'm a poor writer in my opinion. :)

The problem with the epiphany in my opinion is that rarely to people fit in such neat boxes.  Survivors can become victims or victimizers in other areas of their lives.  Dom/mes and subs alike struggle and need help with things from the other. In my opinion, roles aside, it's a relationship which should be based first on friendship and compatibility.  To presume the Dom/me is doing "fixing" alone or doesn't at times need "fixing" themselves at times would be selling the relationship short in my opinion.  Balance is everything.

The entry regarding victims and victimizers is totally unrelated to this thread, or anything else, really. The night I wrote that, I was coping with some one's emotional crisis, which in turn created one in myself that was piled on top of a current crisis I'm struggling with. In short, I was overwhelmed, I needed to recenter and making that entry helped me with all the rage, dispair and helplessness I needed to express. I do, however, regard it as valid statement of life from a very dark and bloody point of view. I do disagree with you, though. We do fit in neat little boxes. The nice thing is, there are so many boxes to choose from! ;)

Take what Doctor Who once said. "There are two kinds of people in the world; the intelligent and the stupid. The intelligent people change thier point of view to fit the facts. The stupid people change the facts to fit thier point of view."

I'm sure there are many, many more neat little boxes to choose from.

quote:

  

The control you write about is on a reactive level while most submissives are looking for a proactive control. To clarify so not to confuse the simple if it makes dominant happy it should make submissive happy. It is one thing to exercise control on someone and to gain enjoyment and other things from that control while also enjoying seeing your submissive flourish from a person ONLY exercising control or MAINLY the type of control being done is JUST based on the submissive and feeding a happiness/enjoyment from seeing their own. Not saying the latter is wrong, just saying that would be dicey for a lot of submissives who are quite frankly wanting to take pleasure in giving you pleasure and which to me becomes a chicken or the egg type situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Ok, but your reply ignores the use of your terms to answer the question, which is that control is not one-sided, relationships are not one-sided, life is not one-sided.  As toservz pointed out much better (as usual), it's kind of a circle, dominating to please while someone is submitting to please is kind of a mess.  Relationships are not static and consist of people, not roles.  We each give and take, learn and hopefully benefit from each other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk
I'm not a Dominant because I want control. I'm a Dominant because I want to provide control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk
What would make you happy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Ok, but your reply ignores the use of your terms to answer the question, which is that control is not one-sided, relationships are not one-sided, life is not one-sided.  As toservz pointed out much better (as usual), it's kind of a circle, dominating to please while someone is submitting to please is kind of a mess.  Relationships are not static and consist of people, not roles.  We each give and take, learn and hopefully benefit from each other.

You know, the interesting thing about all this? Somehow, it's assumed that....

1. I love to fix people.
2. I view control as one sided
3. That the relationship is unequal
4. The sub would be considered inferior
5. The only way for me to be happy would be to be in control of another

and even more!

And the reality is, I said nothing of the kind! (chuckle)

It's like seeing the results of a message being relayed via whisper from person to person. You never know what you'll get when it's done. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

  

The control you write about is on a reactive level while most submissives are looking for a proactive control. To clarify so not to confuse the simple if it makes dominant happy it should make submissive happy. It is one thing to exercise control on someone and to gain enjoyment and other things from that control while also enjoying seeing your submissive flourish from a person ONLY exercising control or MAINLY the type of control being done is JUST based on the submissive and feeding a happiness/enjoyment from seeing their own. Not saying the latter is wrong, just saying that would be dicey for a lot of submissives who are quite frankly wanting to take pleasure in giving you pleasure and which to me becomes a chicken or the egg type situation.

(chuckle)

You're overthinking it, little one. :)

If you want to understand my philosophy, apply the concept of complementaries.
It's not a matter of being reactive or proactive, that's just merely a process.

Complimentaries is like the ying/yang symbol. Black is feminine energy, white is masculine energy. No, don't bother with semantics. Each has a dot with the opposing color, demonstrating that both have a small amount each involved. Also, remember, gender is irrevelant. Some women can be masculine dominant, some men can be feminine dominant.

Neither is dominant, by themselves, but one has to be dominant in one person, and the other has to be dominant in the other. As the two people interact, one being more feminine than the other, and the other being more masculine than the other, those energies compliment each other, giving the other what they need, and in the giving, providing even more fulfillment.

The interaction of the couple establishes a kind of closed loop exchanging those energies. Like the ying/yang symbol. The interesting part is that the more masculine one person becomes, the more feminine the other becomes, and the more feminine the other becomes, the more masculine the one becomes. Nothing changes except the intensity.

So, if all that is true, and you want your man to be more masculine, then you must become more feminine, as you become more feminine he'll become more masculine. Both of you can exert yourselves or just one, but the result is the same. D/s enhances this to profound levels once at least one of pair understands what is happening. Moreso if both.

The trouble most people have with the D/s dynamic is that it's so cluttered with differing concepts and views and interminglings, it becomes a communications nightmare. They MIGHT be talking about the same thing, but they're not sure. :)

The chicken and egg thing is a rather flawed model, frankly, but the ying/yang is perfect for this instance. What came first is not important, but how it fits together is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

because when dealing with another person you cannot take control without crawling inside their heads and as far as i know, that is impossible

I disagree with this statement.  I take control of other people all the time.  I do not ask permission, I do not obtain their consent... I take control.  <snipped for brevity>

quote:



In what way or ways are you equal?  In what way or ways are you unequal?