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The Question - 11/14/2007 7:05:15 AM   
scottjk


Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		To get the background of why I'm posting this, you'll have to check my latest journal entry. (No! I'm NOT being an attention whore! LOL) It would be simpler this way. :) I know, some of you won't read the journal entry, and that's okay. You'll miss the point of this post. :)

The Question is:

What would make you happy?

The short version of my answer is this:

I'm not a Dominant because I want control. I'm a Dominant because I want to provide control. That and structure for others to benefit by. Until recently, my failing has been to not ask The Question. Of myself and not of others. I guess you could say I had an epiphany this morning and I just had to share. Read the journal and you'll see.

FYI: I rarely do journals, but recently, I felt a need to try. I'm a poor writer in my opinion. :)

_____________________________

Thou art fertile ground and I will plant a garden in thee.
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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 7:14:48 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

I'm a Dominant because I want to provide control.


Scott, I like your epithany ...

I have a lot of vanilla friends ... when first meeting me (knowing I identified as a dominant female) they expected to find me barking orders and demanding their acquiesence ...when the reality was ...it was nice to be around people I (now love and adore) who do not require me to be 'in control' all the time ... but put a subservient creature in my midst and I love nothing more than giving them the opportunity to stand in their own light ;)


< Message edited by Jasmyn -- 11/14/2007 7:15:38 AM >

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 7:20:22 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		What you seem to be saying is that what makes you happy, or what motivates you to be dominant is your sense that you are being of service to someone you love... am I right? If so, you are not the only dominant that feels that way, and I would not be with a dominant man that did not have that as part of his motivation to dominate me.. it is what we can become together and that it becomes more than our individual parts.

What makes me happy has nothing to do with my submissiveness, or BDSM, or even the people in my life... it is knowing that All is Well, no matter what. I am at peace because I know in my heart that nothing is to be regretted, nothing is lost, nothing is for naught... Everything has its reason and its season. I do not have doubts in myself anymore, and that makes me happy.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 11/14/2007 7:21:41 AM >

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 7:24:46 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry, I'm one of those who didn't read your journal but choose to answer in my own way.
 
I'm already happy.  I'm happy with who I am, where I am, what I'm doing, and who I associate myself with.  I don't rely upon anyone else to *make* me happy (I don't believe that can be done) and I adamantly avoid relationships with those who (mistakenly) think that I can *make* them happy. 
 
When it comes to relationships (and their structures) and partners, I'm more interested in people with whom I'm compatible.  And I try to be brutally honest with myself about that because, while I don't believe anyone can *make* me happy or be responsible for my happiness, I do believe that the wrong person or relationship can be unhealthy and I'm either responsible for getting out, or for making myself unhappy by sticking around.
 
That may or may not answer your question, but it's the question I wanted to answer.  *LOL*
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 7:27:07 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		What would make me happy? Is a question that suggests that a person is not happy already, so my answer would be nothing, as I already am.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 7:28:32 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		My happiness is my responsibilty period. It is not up to someone else to make me happy. 

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Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 7:35:46 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Nothing can "make" me happy. Events and circumstances present themselves to me of which i have little control. The only control i do have is my reaction to them. i think the closest thing i can think of that would equate to happiness (whatever that is) is balance and harmony.  Happiness is not an end product it's a process and fluid.... sometimes fleeting. 

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 7:35:48 AM   
scottjk


Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

What you seem to be saying is that what makes you happy, or what motivates you to be dominant is your sense that you are being of service to someone you love... am I right? If so, you are not the only dominant that feels that way, and I would not be with a dominant man that did not have that as part of his motivation to dominate me.. it is what we can become together and that it becomes more than our individual parts.

What makes me happy has nothing to do with my submissiveness, or BDSM, or even the people in my life... it is knowing that All is Well, no matter what. I am at peace because I know in my heart that nothing is to be regretted, nothing is lost, nothing is for naught... Everything has its reason and its season. I do not have doubts in myself anymore, and that makes me happy.


Almost, but close enough that it's not important for me to quibble. ;)

_____________________________

Thou art fertile ground and I will plant a garden in thee.

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 7:54:11 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

The Question is:

What would make you happy?

I read your journal entry.  We have some very different backgrounds I think.  On the other hand we're both 40 and both apparently looking at our lives retrospectively.  At first, I had a hard time answering your question, not because I don't know what would make me happy... but because I already am happy.  So I read over your journal a second time and thought about it.  Here's what came to mind, more or less stream of consciousness.

We both seem to have in common having reached a point where we weren't satisfied with our lives.  The difference is that I hit it sooner, around 35.   Like you I've a proclivity for organizing, delegating, managing, etc.  I'm good at planning things out, seeing the big picture, finding solutions to problems, an so forth.  At 35 I was not happy with my life or myself.  I'd lost a fiancee whom I loved dearly, my finances were a mess, my future was looking pretty grim, I had no prospects, and I didn't have much to be happy about.  I got pretty depressed, and eventually I reached a point where I put a different question to myself... I asked myself whether I was going to get busy living, or get busy dying, because I could not go on like I was.  I decided to get busy living.

From that choice I set about deciding what I needed to change in my life, whatever I wasn't satisfied with.  I thought about what I wanted and what I needed to do to achieve those things.  In short, I made a plan.  I reconnected with family and family traditions.  I started first one business... and now a second.  I went back to college and took some courses on specific subjects.  I made it my top priority to sort out my fiances, achieve financial independence, and buy a home; that was phase one.  Phase one should be complete by the Fall of next year.  Then comes phase two... what that is isn't really important here.

Here's the point and the answer to your question.  What makes me happy is not any one thing... its a lot of things and they are all dependant on me getting out there and doing something.  I make me happy.  There were (and still are) some things about my life I'm not satisfied with, its up to me to change those things.  I'm happy when I'm standing on the side of Cove mountain making applebutter with my family.  I'm happy when I finish another remodel, knowing I've created another good home for someone.  I'm happy when I sign paychecks for my employees, knowing that I've gone from bankruptcy to not only providing for myself but for others as well.  I'm happy when I play my banjo (it doesn't matter to me that I'm still not very good, I'm still learning and teaching myself and enjoying the process).  I'm happy when I make time for some creative writing or some photography.  I'm happy everytime I overcome another obstacle or solve another problem in my life.  I'm happy everytime I achieve another goal.  For the most part these days I'm a pretty happy guy.

Do I have everything I want... hardly.  There's still plenty to go after, and I enjoy that too.  Keeps me busy and mostly out of trouble (I don't think anything could completely keep me out of trouble!).  But I don't feel anything I want is out of my reach, its only a matter of time.

What makes me happy... I do.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 8:16:15 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

My happiness is my responsibilty period. It is not up to someone else to make me happy. 


I echo this very much. I certainly want to be with a person who adds to my happiness and fulfillment in my life just like most human beings but have observed others that push their responsibility of their own happiness on others and it almost always comes back to bite them.

Maybe it is just the phrasing but I would not be compatible with the OP as it describes to me a person who derives enjoyment in bettering another person which to me is not the goal of my own relationship but just part of all of us as human beings to be better. I do not need my dominant to point the way to a better or happier life through his control, put out fires and would be quite icky for him to need to fix/make me happy by the control he could provide.

I want control exercised over me so my dominant benefits in freeing himself and provides additional enjoyment in his life. I do not need or want another person controlling me to make my life better; I can deal with my own life. I do not want a white knight, I want a fully formed human being that can think and treat me as a whole person not needing guidance to be better but just enjoys control exercised over me.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 8:34:49 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez


quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

My happiness is my responsibilty period. It is not up to someone else to make me happy. 


I echo this very much. I certainly want to be with a person who adds to my happiness and fulfillment in my life just like most human beings but have observed others that push their responsibility of their own happiness on others and it almost always comes back to bite them.

Maybe it is just the phrasing but I would not be compatible with the OP as it describes to me a person who derives enjoyment in bettering another person which to me is not the goal of my own relationship but just part of all of us as human beings to be better. I do not need my dominant to point the way to a better or happier life through his control, put out fires and would be quite icky for him to need to fix/make me happy by the control he could provide.

I want control exercised over me so my dominant benefits in freeing himself and provides additional enjoyment in his life. I do not need or want another person controlling me to make my life better; I can deal with my own life. I do not want a white knight, I want a fully formed human being that can think and treat me as a whole person not needing guidance to be better but just enjoys control exercised over me.


I am 100% behind you on your 1st paragraph, but you lose me in the 2nd and 3rd. I don't see anything wrong with a person who.."derives enjoyment in bettering another person" as a matter of fact I think that how it should be. Thats how it is in my relationship I have with my Master. He and I both get pleasure from "bettering" the other. I don not need a D type to "point the way" for me either...I'm a big girl and know how to live and have a happy life. The control issue is the thing...I WANT Him to have control...and He WANTS to have that control....now, do I NEED it to be happy?...no I think not...but I WANT it...and I happen to HAVE it...so that makes me joyful in my heart.




_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 8:59:32 AM   
wisteriaV


Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline 		What would make me happy? If  every man would have to go through the whole preggy thing and birth process as well as pms and menapause so they know we arent bitching on purpose  and that we hurt and the endorphines/ hormones are not behaving right.

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Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 9:03:35 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

I am 100% behind you on your 1st paragraph, but you lose me in the 2nd and 3rd. I don't see anything wrong with a person who.."derives enjoyment in bettering another person" as a matter of fact I think that how it should be. Thats how it is in my relationship I have with my Master. He and I both get pleasure from "bettering" the other. I don not need a D type to "point the way" for me either...I'm a big girl and know how to live and have a happy life. The control issue is the thing...I WANT Him to have control...and He WANTS to have that control....now, do I NEED it to be happy?...no I think not...but I WANT it...and I happen to HAVE it...so that makes me joyful in my heart.


The difference for me is not that a person makes their other’s life better, I agree 100% about that, but how they make it better.

In other words, as you wrote you are responsible for your own happiness would you be happy with your other if when he first met you he was thinking I need to fix you? I am guessing you never have thought of yourself as broken.

When I read the post and journal entry I got the impression, could have been totally wrong, that the OP was not talking about two people making each other better by being in a healthy relationship and the natural dynamics that happen for most in them. I read they took pleasure in fixing, transforming and guiding another human being from their personal wisdom and experience. In other words they enjoy fixing an inferior being because they just know how to do things better then others and enjoys that feeling. The control the OP talks about comes from not thinking of the other as an equal.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 9:10:04 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

In other words they enjoy fixing an inferior being because they just know how to do things better then others and enjoys that feeling. The control the OP talks about comes from not thinking of the other as an equal.

Yep....I agree, thats not a good or healthy thing to have present in a relationship..... So we are on the same page after all it seems


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 9:31:17 AM   
scottjk


Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wisteriaV

What would make me happy? If  every man would have to go through the whole preggy thing and birth process as well as pms and menapause so they know we arent bitching on purpose  and that we hurt and the endorphines/ hormones are not behaving right.


And there it is, the only true constant of the universe. Oh how did I KNOW this was going to show up? LOL

(pats wisteria on the head) There, there, wisteria, just remember, it could be much worse. You could be a cat in heat and then actually mate with a male. :) Not exactly a painless process for both genders from what I hear. :)

_____________________________

Thou art fertile ground and I will plant a garden in thee.

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 9:36:06 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

To get the background of why I'm posting this, you'll have to check my latest journal entry. (No! I'm NOT being an attention whore! LOL) It would be simpler this way. :) I know, some of you won't read the journal entry, and that's okay. You'll miss the point of this post. :)

The Question is:

What would make you happy?

The short version of my answer is this:

I'm not a Dominant because I want control. I'm a Dominant because I want to provide control. That and structure for others to benefit by. Until recently, my failing has been to not ask The Question. Of myself and not of others. I guess you could say I had an epiphany this morning and I just had to share. Read the journal and you'll see.

FYI: I rarely do journals, but recently, I felt a need to try. I'm a poor writer in my opinion. :)


i am hoping that you don't want control because you already have control....because when dealing with another person you cannot take control without crawling inside their heads and as far as i know, that is impossible...their are techniques that could render them dependent on you to provide control...but it is still providing control....anway...

my answer...in a power exchange relationship....i thrive in an enviorment of control and structure from the person i give authority in my life....i am not always happy, i am not always energetic, or joyful or getting what i want or things like that....but i thrive, i am healthy and getting what i need and i am moving forward, most of the time...i usually only slip backwards when i try and take back that authority...but thats another thread...

chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

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RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 9:44:14 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		For those that think that others cant make them happy then you have never seen a good comedian.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 9:48:02 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		For the first part of your reply I agree with you and your previous post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez


The difference for me is not that a person makes their other’s life better, I agree 100% about that, but how they make it better.

In other words, as you wrote you are responsible for your own happiness would you be happy with your other if when he first met you he was thinking I need to fix you? I am guessing you never have thought of yourself as broken.

When I read the post and journal entry I got the impression, could have been totally wrong, that the OP was not talking about two people making each other better by being in a healthy relationship and the natural dynamics that happen for most in them.

However after this you lost me.

quote:

 I read they took pleasure in fixing, transforming and guiding another human being from their personal wisdom and experience. In other words they enjoy fixing an inferior being because they just know how to do things better then others and enjoys that feeling. The control the OP talks about comes from not thinking of the other as an equal.

While I think its generally a bad idea going into any relationship with the intent of "fixing" another person, guiding and transforming is a different matter.  Using one's own wisdom and experience to aid, help, and guide another person in their own growth can be rewarding, for some very much so.  Likewise, many D/s relationships have an implicit inequality... that is the submissive definitively is not the equal of the dominant. 

Personally I think its best to be responsible for your own happiness, and clearly you and I (and others) agree on that.  But I'm not prepared to say that's the only way it can or even should be.  Perhaps in theory everyone should because that would eliminate co-dependence and other things that have been deemed "unhealthy."  The problem with that is that theory doesn't always apply when the "rubber meets the road."  Not everyone is capable of that kind of independence, people have different strengths and abilities and some folks just don't have the inner wherewithal to do that... they need that connection with someone else.  I suppose its not surprising, humans are by nature social creatures, so is it really any surprise that many need and depend on social relations and interactions to be happy?  It may have been labelled unhealthy by ivory towered psychologist who envision a perfect world... but I have often wondered if co-dependence isn't a natural occurance, one that evolved as part of the social dynamic (perhaps to help ensure the success of that dynamic) which has been so much a part of our success as a species.  More simply put, perhaps its natural for some people to very much need other people?  Perhaps that's what makes some submissives (no, not all) who they are?

As for equality, I'm curious what you meant by that.  How do you see a submissive being equal... or unequal... to a dominant?

Scott, we're different as to why we're dominant.  I have no desire to provide structure and control as any sort of service, I provide it as a means of getting what I want.  That's just a difference in personal style and I don't believe either is right or wrong.  Dale Carnegie, among many others, was a strong advocate of what might be called "service oriented leadership".  That is, leaders who do so in order to serve the needs of others, to better others.  If that works for you and makes you happy, good for you!  Personally, it would not work for me, I'm just not oriented that way.  There are pitfalls to everything, what happens when you can't fix someone, or when the person you depend on for happiness is gone?  But likewise, for myself, what happens if I fail in my goals... what happens when there is no one to pick me up but me... and what if I can't?  Nothing is perfect, and no matter what any of us chooses there will always be risks.  Life is a matter of choosing what risks we can accept and cope with... and that's a personal choice for each of us.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 9:53:02 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		FR...

i am not sure who said that a submissive is not equal to a Dominant...which is why i am using fast reply and not quoting...

i disagree with that...and it may be a case of semantics....i believe a submissive is different that a Dominant....but equal...because there must be power to give up, for a power exchange to go on....they are inherently different...that is what draws us to the D/s side of this lifestyle...but they are not unequal....when people are unequal, that tends to lead to one person draining on the other and leaving them a shell of a person....and then the other one moves on to the next person when the there is nothing left to drain...whether it be energy or life or power....

chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Question - 11/14/2007 10:06:11 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

As for equality, I'm curious what you meant by that.  How do you see a submissive being equal... or unequal... to a dominant?


I do not want to come off as negative and could be very well and have admitted to maybe reading what the OP wrote in this post and journal entry as not what he meant.

I do think it is possible that two people that are not “healthy” to maybe match up and flourish but I would not like the odds. To me a person looking to become happy about finding a person to show them their wrongs and for a person to need to show a person their wrongs and what they think is just better is just not healthy.

Equality is not about the day to day life/actions in a power exchange relationship. Icky, who wants that. ;)

When I talk about equality, chellekitty nailed it. I am talking about a person treating another and thinking about another in the same way they do themselves. The old because I am dominant that makes me wiser and more knowledgeable. I need to look into my Master’s eyes and know he sees a capable and healthy human being that can take care of herself and not one that sees some broken and inferior person.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 20
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