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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 3:30:12 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		There is a difference. TO each and everyone of us For example( we each take a steak and cook it differently season it differently but It is still a steak) those that do see things differently then other people cause of there life experices not text book  text books or teachings from a prof our guidelines not applications of things to life. it is a circle when you get our age. You will see things different.  A natural order of things. you do not eat cake before it is done baking lol. why should life be any different. Yes there are those rare people. but few and far between.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 3:37:37 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
- feel free to try and tell me I'm too young to know what I'm talking about anytime. :)


another delicious sound bite

and as if I ever would.......



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 5:37:23 PM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

You're 37 and you started 21 years ago? Well before the age of informed consent in my book. That aside, one thing about the internet is that younger people are getting more involved.

Yes I am 37 (almost 38), technically I started even younger...I was tying up neighborhood boys to trees and leaving them until their Mothers could find them. 

And with youth comes lack of sufficient life experience to be able to know exactly what you need in a partner. Therefore, instead of dating vanilla to discover what moral values you need, and what other compatibility issues are vital to you, they are discovering this in BDSM partners.

Please keep in mind that many professionals in psychology believe the optimum number of different people one should date is about 24 in order to discover what traits they had that you took to, and what traits they had they made you swear never again.

My points had nothing to do with this younger generation not being experienced enough to participate...just that as the internet has emerged and our society becoming more interested in instant gratification than traditional getting to know you techniques of the past.  I think dating is great...but getting into a relationship before you have had a first date to me is putting the cart before the horse.

People have to get these experiences somewhere, or are you married to the first boy you dated? And why is discovering you aren't compatible with a possible BDSM partner so much more heinous a crime than not being compatible with a vanilla partner? Not to mention that if you aren't wired for vanilla, you won't ever be compatible with a vanilla partner.

There is no crime in knowing what you want, experiencing dating, courting, getting to know one another FIRST before you marry them.  Would you marry someone before meeting them?  While I understand this is acceptable in some cultures...why has taking time to get to know someone, to establish a friendship, to feel something before you have sex with them become old fashioned?


_____________________________

Happiness is only real when shared. - Christopher McCandless

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 5:42:49 PM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrescentLuna

I rather like that if I'm seeking a bisexual kinky girl I don't have to languish in fantasy land because oh my god how would I EVER ask someone if they're into that? How would I learn the second codes to get into a club to try and find them, and what if they're only one trait or the other? Now there is international probability, and I'm willing to travel. ;)
I don't REALLY see how people have changed that much... Did 10, 20, 30 years ago people really work harder to establish long-term relationships? Because that would certainly explain their divorce rate now. Did the secret hand signals really keep jerks out of the kinky scenes, or did people only need to be safe and aware since 2002?
Frankly, I'm kind of glad that I live in era where I can google which suspension positions are safe and for how long and which are dangerous all the time.



In my OP I stated that the internet has done wonders for BDSM at large.  I think it is wonderful that people can meet in forums like this.  I think it is great people can get a multitude of education information from a variety of sources.  My point was that faster isn't always better when it comes to creating relationship and committment.

_____________________________

Happiness is only real when shared. - Christopher McCandless

(in reply to CrescentLuna)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 5:45:22 PM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

hmm.. I guess I must have read it wrong.  I didn't see it as an attack on the way the younger generation does things.  Heck, men and women MY age jump in and out of "relationships" so fast I get nauseous watching it fly.  It is not a generational thing.  It is a societal thing.  And I am not just talking about living with bdsm.  This is happening all around in more ways than I care to count.  People want fast food (not just kids), manufactures make things with shorter expiration dates, we have become a culture of instant life, instant gratification, and fast recovery.
It is not YOUR generation.  It is US.  All of us.  We let it happen in our rush to outdo the neighbor.
Why work at making things work if you can just buy another tomorrow?  That is the current mindset of our society.  It is well beyond a generational idiom, it is our culture.
Kyst


Thank you!  This was the point I was trying to make.  It has nothing to do with age but everything to do with changes in societal norms.  I've seen grandmas and teenagers doing the same thing.

_____________________________

Happiness is only real when shared. - Christopher McCandless

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 6:37:54 PM   
alandraofMists


Posts: 187
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline 		I think what you are describing is happening in most of society not only in the BDSM community.

Today’s society is very much a "throw away society".... what one does not need or want is gotten rid of.  This is not only in the material aspect but also in the relationship aspect too. In my opinion it is becoming more and more prevalent in today's society.

My view on the why of this goes back to the distancing of family... in the past a person could be born and grow old in the same town surrounded by the same people with the same or similar values. Family did not only mean parents and UM's but the extended family and friends. People could be raised by not only the parents but also by the surrounding community as well. Most of society learned and respected the rules of the community and learning of values seemed easier because the teaching was shared by the group instead of placed on a just a couple of people, who may or may not have learned it from their parents. In this type of society, younger adults were exposed to lasting relationships; they saw and understood that love took work and commitment. 

With the greater ability to move and distance ourselves from those older relationships most of society no longer had that visual aid. Society for the most part, seems to have lost the understanding that commitment and love means that we work through the hard times and enjoy the good times. Some people do not have that extended family to help guide and teach those younger than themselves... in fact  depending on where one is living people may not even know the neighbors on either side of where they live, which leaves society without any support network in the hard times. 
 
One thing that can happen is a lost of the feeling of connectivity, that sense of belonging to something greater then one’s own self; that is what many people are searching for when they go looking for a community to belong to.  With the internet allowing more people to find alternative communities. But, people that do not know how to develop or work at a relationship.  Since they may have never been able to see one develop and grow in a stable environment. Society has some people searching and willing to do almost anything for that feeling of being connected, even if it means lying to themselves to fit in to what they see as the community.

"Instant Gratification" is what some of society has been raised on since there has been no support network to teach and show the younger generations how to learn about themselves and how to develop relationships for the long term.  Until society starts understanding themselves better and taking responsibility for their own actions, I see it staying that way.

Knight's Alandra

(in reply to MsIncontrol)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 7:25:35 PM   
Solinear


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddyskittin

My Daddy, and I refer to it as The Burger King Lifestyle...  everyone seems to want to Have it Their Way... we find it extremely disappointing, but reflective of the world we live in today... it makes it more difficult for us in the sense of trying to get to know people in more than a very topical way... but then it does really help to weed out the people who aren't going to be compatible with us on any level... We spent almost 6 years as friends getting to know each other... we of course don't expect others to spend 6 years... but we definatly expect it to take more than 6 days.




I know my post is going to be offensive... but I'm just curious if it bothers you that they want it their way or that they don't just automatically want your "McDonald's lifestyle" - where they get everything your way.

Your post just makes me think that what you're really saying is "Why don't they just accept our way?".

(in reply to Daddyskittin)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 7:35:42 PM   
Solinear


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddyskittin
My Daddy, and I refer to it as The Burger King Lifestyle...  everyone seems to want to Have it Their Way... we find it extremely disappointing,

So I should choose to live my life NOT "my way"?

Honestly this argument was tired back in ancient Greek when it was told then and it's even more tired now.  Wasn't the 80s generation all about the "me"? 

And we're supposed to be surprised now my generation, after being raised by hippies who supposedly worked so hard for their revolution only to give it all up for SUVs and microwaves, with the AIDS consciousness, raised with environment crisis, raised with corporations turning out layoffs like candy with bloated CEO salaries and perks, raised with skyrocketing divorce rates, with more debt than previous generations had on their homes just on our college educations the day we graduate, raised knowing we'll be lucky if we actually get enough oil to spend $5 a gallon on in our 40s, with no hope of a serious healthcare system that works and forget about social security...

somehow people are upset and surprised when we say "Fuck you, I want what works for ME, and I'm not going wait to get it"???


Please don't associate people my age with 'Baby Boomers' (the hippie generation) - we are mostly the children of baby boomers.  Baby Boomers (hippies, then yuppies, now retirees) were born between 1945 and 1950 and started having children (like me) around 1965-1975, we are called "Generation X" (some people use that term interchangeably with "The 'me' generation" and lump everyone born between 1965 and the early 80s aka "children of baby boomers" in together)...

I completely agree with you about Baby Boomers though.  This generation who, when they became yuppies en masse they completely disregarded any ecological responsibility for the almighty dollar.  I think the same thing is now happening to my generation, but it may be too late for us - China and India are grabbing everything up, making opportunities more and more scarce.  Not that I'm whining - we haven't voted the Baby Boomers out of office yet, so it's really as much our fault as theirs.  China being on the "Most Favored Nations" list is a complete disgrace to everyone else on the list.  It should be renamed "Most Powerful Nations".

Bah...

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 7:40:03 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		<hijack>

quote:

China and India are grabbing everything up, making opportunities more and more scarce. 


In other words, they're doing what countries have always done.

</hijack>

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Solinear)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 8:46:45 PM   
Solinear


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		The claims of "no courtesy, no politeness, selfishness, blah, blah, blah" have been going on for eons (literally).  From Socrates, almost 2500 years ago:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when eleders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

My guess is that Socrates wasn't saying anything that Hammurabi's contemporaries weren't saying (or at least thinking) 1300 years before.  I'm sure Yu said it of Qi's generation (4200-4300 BC Chinese emperors) too.

Heinlein (writer) decried the downfall of the US as being caused by all of these same faults and predicted the breakup of the country in almost every single book and expected it to happen no later than early in the 21st century and for the country to grow towards more and more illiteracy.  As much as I can piss and moan about the lack of proper grammar, punctuation, the inability to tell the difference between a possessive and contraction, my grandmother was completely clueless, couldn't spell more than a smallish number of words correctly and didn't make it past the 3rd grade.  My father graduated high school and most of my siblings graduated from college.  Oddly enough, the two that didn't graduate make the most money, but that's another gripe that they should be taking up.

Society changes and fluctuates.  You can bemoan your situation or accept that in 20 years LA will be sayin the same thing, 20 years after that my children will be saying the same thing, 20 years after that.... it will go on and on throughout time and as long as we can dodge the stupidity of another dark ages, we should keep moving forward.  Overall education will increase, our ability to control more and more of the world at large will increase (hopefully for the betterment of the environment soon) and eventually we will either demolish the planet and destroy any chance we have of ever recovering (without a serious revamp of our approach to technology) or we will hit a sustainable point and spread our scourge to other solar systems and worlds due simply to technological momentum.

In 200 years we'll all be dead and someone won't even remember that we thought that the younger generation was impatient and selfish... but they'll remember that Socrates said it and laugh the same way when someone says something about how society is headed for a downfall or anything similarly historically contradictory.

One thing to remember - society always takes it's greatest leaps forward when we are perceived as 'decadent'.  Greece - they were almost universally bisexual and orgies were expected frequently and they laid down the foundation of math (actually they had the chance to leap us forward 1500-2000 years in atomic theory, but Aristotle won the argument and everything was made up of 'elements' like fire, spirit, earth, water, air... until the renaissance).  Then they formalized their religion, spent all their time trying to live by some strange set of rules and the Romans threw them down, taking on some of their traits and became decadent and advanced technologies came out - mining, industry, mass production for the first time, so much... then they became 'moral' and everyone else stomped them into the dirt.  With decadence comes ambition - I don't want one position, I want *all* positions - I don't want one mate, I want two or three or nine... if I'm successful enough, I'll get as many as I want, whenever I want.  So I'll come up with brilliant concepts, a new technology that will revolutionize the world or heck, just something that will make me a crapload of money so I can just buy (you never think of it in those terms) all the pussy, ass, cock, whatever, that I want.

If anything, praise the decadence, hope the thought style that says "I should be able to have anything and everything I want, if I can justify it to myself and everyone else" spreads.  Hugh Hefner has all the women he wants because he is successful enough to where the women he ends up with believe he is worthy of it.  When we become 'moral' and try to do things as we're 'supposed to' (according to old people who feel guilty about their own decadence when they were younger), we get married younger, lose our ambition and simply try to maintain or make it through until we die... content and so bored that going to hell is an acceptable change of scenery.  Me?  I want to be decadent, ambitious, successful and keep fighting for every bit of life that I can get until I can afford to be immortal or I die after spending years battling that grim reaper.

I won't go down politely or courteously.  I will only wait for those things that are worth waiting for and only if waiting for them doesn't mean that I wait so long that they're not worth getting any more.

< Message edited by Solinear -- 11/11/2007 8:49:01 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 9:00:25 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think it's more that we reach a point where a mass can be sustained due to the work of others- leaving leisure time and money to ENJOY decadence.  You don't start looking at the stars all night until you are secure you've got enough food on the table all day.

It's when that balance between workers/leisure becomes too great that it topples- and so far no great empire has been able to sustain it.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Solinear)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 9:45:54 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncontrol

This is inspired by the post on commitments.  While I had nothing to add to that post, much of what was said in there had me thinking off in this tangent.  Cultivating ourselves and our relationships seems to have gone by the wayside and I want to know why?

Our culture has moved away from common courtesies and general communication to instant messages, fast food dinners, microwave popcorn, credit card transactions.  It seems when we want something we have grown to expect to get it now, immediately and without work.  We are the instant gratification generation. Our desire to have it now is surpassing common sense and isn't just a problem of materialism but also moved into relationships and personal identity.


I'm not sure how old you are.  I just slipped out of 'teenage-dom' and am now twenty.  I think I am part of a generation encouraged and almost forced to search for identity.  There's a saying, 'Good parents give you two things: roots to stand on and wings to fly.' We have the wings--more resources (like the internet) available for our use.  But our parents have failed to pass on roots, a sense of community, or any real moral compass.  So we are defining it for ourselves.  It's interesting to watch the trends in music and fashion as this generation seeks a face and a voice.

I don't know anyone my age who expects their degree or their career or their relationship to just happen without work.  I expect to get what I want, because I want it and am therefore willing to work for it.

I would argue that relationships and personal identity are more important to this generation than any before because we live in a world even more open to questioning and searching that out.

quote:


While the internet age has done wonders for the BDSM community at large, I think that it has also hurt it drastically.  Over the last 10 or so years I have seen what was an exclusive community, become something almost unsavory without discretion.  When I first started in the lifestyle 21 years ago..there was no internet.  You had to really dig around to find people of like minds, you had to meet ahead of time and get sponsors to get an invitation to a play party.  You had to earn the respect of the community and that was only achieved through time served.  Now, all you have to do is create a screen name and hit the internet button...instant Dom/Mistress/Master/sub/slave etc. 


You had to earn the respect of the community?  You had to get an invitation?  I don't think I would have been one of the 'cool kids' invited to these parties.  People talk about pre-internet days like they were so glorious.  But I don't ass-kiss and I see a lot of ass-kissing and name-dropping involved in being a 'respected member of the community.'  Hell, I see it on internet forums themselves.  But I'm glad that the internet shed a some light onto the BDSM scene and gave those of us who were previously not cool enough to be a part of the secret club a free membership.  WOOT!

quote:


Furthermore, what ever happened to dating, courting, and growing a relationship?  It seems as though many expect that just because you share a similar kink or interest in the lifestyle that it should be enough to have a relationship.  Why do people expect play (especially involving sex) when they don't even know you?  I believe it is because when you are in a "relationship" for 5 weeks and you don't get the immediate gratification on your time line...you can leave...and yell NEXT!  There are many thousands of people on line or in your queue waiting for their number to be called up to counter.

I think this depends on what you are looking for in a relationship.  Clearly, someone looking for sex 5 weeks into a relationship should not partner with someone who wants to wait until marriage.  Discussing expectations honestly BEFORE a relationship begins and being honest about what you can handle in a relationship helps you avoid that.  I've dated people who said a relationship without sex would be something they could handle and it wasn't.  A relationship where that's even an issue is general one that has not been talked out enough.

I'd rather someone yell NEXT than pressure me to be in a relationship I don't want to be in.  If someone wants to have sex with you and you do not want to have sex with them and sex is their primary goal, why would you expect them to stick around?

quote:


Maybe I am alone in this, but I like to get to know someone, build trust, build a friendship, BUILD commitment to one another through time, effort and mutual respect, I don't just expect it to happen because I want it to.

Why is everyone in such a hurry?  We all have the same inevitable destination...why rush to get there?  Time is our most valuable asset and I do not want to waste mine anymore than the next person...but I would rather spend my time cultivating friendships and relationships than going through hundreds of failed attempts. 


You certainly aren't alone in your opinions, but there is also the possibility that others are looking for something different than your ideals.


_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to MsIncontrol)
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RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 10:39:35 PM   
MsPleasure


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/1/2007
Status: offline 		The internet has played a huge role in drive through bdsm.  But it's a matter of choice.  My rules still stand. If I'm approached wrong my delete/block button is handy.  There are those that want drive thru bdsm...more power to them.   But I must say the choices available by way of internet have been a benefit.  This site for instance has helped me more than any other...all by way of internet. 

(in reply to MsIncontrol)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/11/2007 10:49:35 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Oh I love when I still get told I'm too young to understand something as if the concept of "history" and "research" and "learning from past generations" are all complete fictions.

The tired and worn rant of "These darn kids today..." is so overdone it's amazing people actually have the gall to restate them.  I guess it's also more amazing how clueless and arrogant every generation is to agree with, believe it and act like it actually is a new rant.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with my generation.  I'm just saying the problems we have today really aren't so different than previous generations, and a lot of them are the direct result of what the ranters did and created when they had their chance to make a difference.

But thanks for making me feel young again- feel free to try and tell me I'm too young to know what I'm talking about anytime. :)


LA I have to tell you, you are not representative of "your generation" in my experience.  I've never found it to be the case that your opinions aren't well reasoned and indicative of someone wise beyond their years.  I guess that just goes to show you that stereotypes don't have much meaning when it comes to individuals, huh? 



< Message edited by laurell3 -- 11/11/2007 10:50:50 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/12/2007 8:27:35 AM   
enchainee


Posts: 15
Status: offline 		imagine. if all the world was a fast food drive by. the only voice you will ever hear is through a scratchie speaker. the only human contact is through a narrow glass slot. your choices in life are limited to those on the plastic menu. your food is plastic. your life is plastic.  are you....

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/12/2007 12:23:56 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I am only going to say one thing...courtesy and manners and wanting a relationship and craving respect that you have earned rather than that which is just handed to you because society got used to the idea of building your esteem isn't new.  Nor is complaining about the lack of these same things in the youth of today.

Like it or not, there is a generation now that does want things differently.  The so-called millenials (children between 1985 and 2000) is the same group that came up in schools in which they were handed a trophy for participating, were allowed to dress how they wanted to in school (including wearing T-shirts that would have gotten their parents thrown out of school 20 years earlier), played in games in which there were no winners or losers, and participated in class projects rather than do homework on their own.  These same people are starting to move into the work force and guess what?  Big clash as these folks expect the "keepers of the jobs" to move aside and do things the "millenial" way...cater to the millennials.  The expectation is being met with a resounding "no" and all of a sudden, people who are used to having their self-esteem constantly stroked through little or no effort are having trouble.  Big surprise.  Now...was that everyone in this generation, of which my two ums are part and parcel?  No...some had parents who were determined to instill certain values and expectations in them despite what their peers and the schools were doing.  Were we 100% successful?  Well, given some of the problems my daughter is having with her job...things that seem relatively minor and easily dealt with to me...no, we (and I) weren't.  This is all to say that there are differences among everyone...including what constitutes a commitment and whether or not someone has to commit to even seeing things as you do:  if they want to have sex with you, then possibly they do.  But, as someone else noted, if sex is their primary goal and not necessarily an ongoing friendship, that doesn't mean that they will not form them elsewhere...just not with you or even other sexual partners.  The only thing you can do is set your standards and find those who agree.

(in reply to enchainee)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Drive Thru BDSM - 11/12/2007 5:21:44 PM   
deliciousmorsel


Posts: 153
Joined: 9/22/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think it's just younger people. I think the internet has brought out a lot of want to be's who expect it now, who equate "kink" with easy sex with some spice on top. Being burdened with self respect earned the hard way myself that's not going to happen with me; I've heard some commands, demands, insults, and expectations I think unbelievable. I would call that drive through, especially the Bondage Booty Call- you meet a self proclaimed Dominant man and they think you're going to come right over and let them tie you up!
Excuse me?
It's really quite refreshing to hear the word dating used. As soon as I finally came up with a word for who I am that explained a lot, I also came up with a whole subculture of others like me- on the internet. This is a good use of the thing. But I went out and joined the local organizations where women are collared or not- and there's no in between ever discussed. I think this extremely strange. The attitude is nothing "vanilla" applies- except that we're still men and women in, or trying to form, relationships. But even long term Doms seem to want this quick! quick! sort of business, and then cycle through a lot of girls and then subs are all crazy and don't know what we want... Well I guess we'd forget what we wanted being constantly put through the spin cycle. I'm a person, not a cheese burgur.
Can I get some lunch counter lifestyle at least? I'd prefer the white table cloth, but can't find it offered...

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 37
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