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MsIncontrol -> Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 11:12:32 AM)

This is inspired by the post on commitments.  While I had nothing to add to that post, much of what was said in there had me thinking off in this tangent.  Cultivating ourselves and our relationships seems to have gone by the wayside and I want to know why? 

Our culture has moved away from common courtesies and general communication to instant messages, fast food dinners, microwave popcorn, credit card transactions.  It seems when we want something we have grown to expect to get it now, immediately and without work.  We are the instant gratification generation. Our desire to have it now is surpassing common sense and isn't just a problem of materialism but also moved into relationships and personal identity.

While the internet age has done wonders for the BDSM community at large, I think that it has also hurt it drastically.  Over the last 10 or so years I have seen what was an exclusive community, become something almost unsavory without discretion.  When I first started in the lifestyle 21 years ago..there was no internet.  You had to really dig around to find people of like minds, you had to meet ahead of time and get sponsors to get an invitation to a play party.  You had to earn the respect of the community and that was only achieved through time served.  Now, all you have to do is create a screen name and hit the internet button...instant Dom/Mistress/Master/sub/slave etc. 

Furthermore, what ever happened to dating, courting, and growing a relationship?  It seems as though many expect that just because you share a similar kink or interest in the lifestyle that it should be enough to have a relationship.  Why do people expect play (especially involving sex) when they don't even know you?  I believe it is because when you are in a "relationship" for 5 weeks and you don't get the immediate gratification on your time line...you can leave...and yell NEXT!  There are many thousands of people on line or in your queue waiting for their number to be called up to counter.  

Maybe I am alone in this, but I like to get to know someone, build trust, build a friendship, BUILD commitment to one another through time, effort and mutual respect, I don't just expect it to happen because I want it to.

Why is everyone in such a hurry?  We all have the same inevitable destination...why rush to get there?  Time is our most valuable asset and I do not want to waste mine anymore than the next person...but I would rather spend my time cultivating friendships and relationships than going through hundreds of failed attempts. 





LadyHibiscus -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 11:17:16 AM)

THANK YOU.  Last night after a party we were talking about how much things have changed, and how very much more challenging it is to find matches for any kind of relationship, be it full time slave or reliable party date.

On my profile, it says that in order to get my personal time, the other person has to be attentive.  If the attention stops, then so does my interest.  Why am I expected to be a life support system for a toybag, and nothing else?  Why is insisting on vanilla conversations so off-putting?  Certainly, we have all had our moments of instant chemistry, but is it reasonable to expect all meetings to be that?




MasterLehr1 -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 11:56:30 AM)

Agreed!  The internet is a marvelous tool for getting to know others, but it shouldn't be the end game.

The "fast food" analogy is perfect.  The BDSM personals experience can be a dehumanizing one for all concerned. I've seen male Doms overwhelm female submissives like it was a first-come-first serve gang bang...flooding them with winks and xrated emails without looking past pictures and into profiles.

Many submissive women are part of this culture as well....picking through Doms like they were cars, finding something wrong with everyone of them, and taking a chance with none.

Both are to blame.  But I still have faith in the few who enjoy the pleasure of a honest, thoughtful discourse....and "friendship first".





Squeakers -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 12:25:00 PM)

MsIncontrol---you are totally NOT alone.   Applauds your post.



Daddyskittin -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 12:26:21 PM)

My Daddy, and I refer to it as The Burger King Lifestyle...  everyone seems to want to Have it Their Way... we find it extremely disappointing, but reflective of the world we live in today... it makes it more difficult for us in the sense of trying to get to know people in more than a very topical way... but then it does really help to weed out the people who aren't going to be compatible with us on any level... We spent almost 6 years as friends getting to know each other... we of course don't expect others to spend 6 years... but we definatly expect it to take more than 6 days.




Celeste43 -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 12:41:00 PM)

You're 37 and you started 21 years ago? Well before the age of informed consent in my book. That aside, one thing about the internet is that younger people are getting more involved.

And with youth comes lack of sufficient life experience to be able to know exactly what you need in a partner. Therefore, instead of dating vanilla to discover what moral values you need, and what other compatibility issues are vital to you, they are discovering this in BDSM partners.

Please keep in mind that many professionals in psychology believe the optimum number of different people one should date is about 24 in order to discover what traits they had that you took to, and what traits they had they made you swear never again.

People have to get these experiences somewhere, or are you married to the first boy you dated? And why is discovering you aren't compatible with a possible BDSM partner so much more heinous a crime than not being compatible with a vanilla partner? Not to mention that if you aren't wired for vanilla, you won't ever be compatible with a vanilla partner.



Honsoku -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 12:56:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncontrol

This is inspired by the post on commitments. While I had nothing to add to that post, much of what was said in there had me thinking off in this tangent. Cultivating ourselves and our relationships seems to have gone by the wayside and I want to know why?

Our culture has moved away from common courtesies and general communication to instant messages, fast food dinners, microwave popcorn, credit card transactions. It seems when we want something we have grown to expect to get it now, immediately and without work. We are the instant gratification generation. Our desire to have it now is surpassing common sense and isn't just a problem of materialism but also moved into relationships and personal identity.


Because commercially we have become very successful on delivering instant gratification and we as a culture don't spend the time to mentally prepare young people to have the discipline and patience for anything else.

quote:

While the internet age has done wonders for the BDSM community at large, I think that it has also hurt it drastically. Over the last 10 or so years I have seen what was an exclusive community, become something almost unsavory without discretion. When I first started in the lifestyle 21 years ago..there was no internet. You had to really dig around to find people of like minds, you had to meet ahead of time and get sponsors to get an invitation to a play party. You had to earn the respect of the community and that was only achieved through time served. Now, all you have to do is create a screen name and hit the internet button...instant Dom/Mistress/Master/sub/slave etc.


This is something I see a lot. Whenever a community expands, older members bemoan and denigrate the newcomers. This is almost always directed at the newcomers' lack of qualifications or effort put in. "You young whippersnappers have it easy! Why back in my day we had to stand on one foot and hold the cane with our teeth!". While there is frequently some merit to this complaint, it is also the nature of progress that things become easier for each successive generation, yet the sky steadfastly refuses to fall. Think about all the people for whom there are no local groups, or would have had no idea where to start, or even would have never heard of it.

quote:

Furthermore, what ever happened to dating, courting, and growing a relationship? It seems as though many expect that just because you share a similar kink or interest in the lifestyle that it should be enough to have a relationship. Why do people expect play (especially involving sex) when they don't even know you? I believe it is because when you are in a "relationship" for 5 weeks and you don't get the immediate gratification on your time line...you can leave...and yell NEXT! There are many thousands of people on line or in your queue waiting for their number to be called up to counter.


Because for some people sexual compatibility matters more than intellectual compatibility. Others get so enamored with the style and color of the new car that they drive it off the lot before seeing if it has the features that they want. Some are just interested in getting their kink satisfied.

Many people are not good at bounded rationality. They do not properly account for time and work expended searching versus the incremental gain of finding that slightly better match. That is if a better match can even be found, as a lot of times a "lot of options" becomes mistaken for "infinite options". Finally, it is an easy way to protect one's self from commitment and getting hurt. If you always cycle out your partners before you have a chance to become invested in them in any meaningful way, you risk losing little to nothing.

quote:

Maybe I am alone in this, but I like to get to know someone, build trust, build a friendship, BUILD commitment to one another through time, effort and mutual respect, I don't just expect it to happen because I want it to.

Why is everyone in such a hurry? We all have the same inevitable destination...why rush to get there? Time is our most valuable asset and I do not want to waste mine anymore than the next person...but I would rather spend my time cultivating friendships and relationships than going through hundreds of failed attempts.


Of course you aren't alone, you are just frustrated and ranting. People rush there because time is their most valuable asset and they view the destination as more valuable than the trip, so they hope they can short-cut the process and get lucky. For some things there are no reliable short-cuts.

The only inevitable destination we all have is death.

Honsoku



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 1:28:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddyskittin
My Daddy, and I refer to it as The Burger King Lifestyle...  everyone seems to want to Have it Their Way... we find it extremely disappointing,

So I should choose to live my life NOT "my way"?

Honestly this argument was tired back in ancient Greek when it was told then and it's even more tired now.  Wasn't the 80s generation all about the "me"? 

And we're supposed to be surprised now my generation, after being raised by hippies who supposedly worked so hard for their revolution only to give it all up for SUVs and microwaves, with the AIDS consciousness, raised with environment crisis, raised with corporations turning out layoffs like candy with bloated CEO salaries and perks, raised with skyrocketing divorce rates, with more debt than previous generations had on their homes just on our college educations the day we graduate, raised knowing we'll be lucky if we actually get enough oil to spend $5 a gallon on in our 40s, with no hope of a serious healthcare system that works and forget about social security...

somehow people are upset and surprised when we say "Fuck you, I want what works for ME, and I'm not going wait to get it"???



sexyred1 -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 1:41:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddyskittin
My Daddy, and I refer to it as The Burger King Lifestyle...  everyone seems to want to Have it Their Way... we find it extremely disappointing,

So I should choose to live my life NOT "my way"?

Honestly this argument was tired back in ancient Greek when it was told then and it's even more tired now.  Wasn't the 80s generation all about the "me"? 

And we're supposed to be surprised now my generation, after being raised by hippies who supposedly worked so hard for their revolution only to give it all up for SUVs and microwaves, with the AIDS consciousness, raised with environment crisis, raised with corporations turning out layoffs like candy with bloated CEO salaries and perks, raised with skyrocketing divorce rates, with more debt than previous generations had on their homes just on our college educations the day we graduate, raised knowing we'll be lucky if we actually get enough oil to spend $5 a gallon on in our 40s, with no hope of a serious healthcare system that works and forget about social security...

somehow people are upset and surprised when we say "Fuck you, I want what works for ME, and I'm not going wait to get it"???


I doubt that anyone above really means they don't want it "their way". You have oversimplified the OP's intent and the subsequent posters.

It is not that we all want what we want when we want it; it is HOW we go about it today that is the problem. And this is not exclusive to BDSM, it is as pervasive in vanilla as well.

And I completely agree with the fact that at least in trying to meet people, THESE days at least, less time, manners, courtesy, care, finesse, consideration, follow up, tenacity, attention, observation, honesty, attempts at actually getting to know someone on any kind of intellectual and emotional level, are all falling very short of the "old days".

But if you are 27, LA, and never had to compare then and now, you would not know this.

I can assure you, if things were not this way, there would not be a myriad of dating sites, commercial singles events and the inexplicable isolation that pervades places like New York City, where there are so many lonely souls wandering around wondering how to connect.

And, it is not because they don't want to, they no longer know how.  I liken this to raw gems; if someone takes the care to polish the stones to perfection, they find the jewel of their dreams. But too many just see the rough and let the stones fall through their fingers.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 1:45:26 PM)

Oh I love when I still get told I'm too young to understand something as if the concept of "history" and "research" and "learning from past generations" are all complete fictions.

The tired and worn rant of "These darn kids today..." is so overdone it's amazing people actually have the gall to restate them.  I guess it's also more amazing how clueless and arrogant every generation is to agree with, believe it and act like it actually is a new rant.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with my generation.  I'm just saying the problems we have today really aren't so different than previous generations, and a lot of them are the direct result of what the ranters did and created when they had their chance to make a difference.

But thanks for making me feel young again- feel free to try and tell me I'm too young to know what I'm talking about anytime. :)



Daddyskittin -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 1:47:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddyskittin
My Daddy, and I refer to it as The Burger King Lifestyle...  everyone seems to want to Have it Their Way... we find it extremely disappointing,

So I should choose to live my life NOT "my way"?

Honestly this argument was tired back in ancient Greek when it was told then and it's even more tired now.  Wasn't the 80s generation all about the "me"? 

And we're supposed to be surprised now my generation, after being raised by hippies who supposedly worked so hard for their revolution only to give it all up for SUVs and microwaves, with the AIDS consciousness, raised with environment crisis, raised with corporations turning out layoffs like candy with bloated CEO salaries and perks, raised with skyrocketing divorce rates, with more debt than previous generations had on their homes just on our college educations the day we graduate, raised knowing we'll be lucky if we actually get enough oil to spend $5 a gallon on in our 40s, with no hope of a serious healthcare system that works and forget about social security...

somehow people are upset and surprised when we say "Fuck you, I want what works for ME, and I'm not going wait to get it"???


Ok la I should have thrown the visual in there of them pulling up to the speaker... rattling off their order... then pulling up to the window, and it just pops out all fresh and exactly the way they want it.

If that example doesn't work for you the other one I can give you is all the males who insist on telling my Daddy how lucky is he is to have me... which he finds extremely offensive because he put effort and years into getting to know me, and I to know him... and someone wants to reduce all of that down into something along the lines of I just fell into his lap... it's that mind set that so many people seem to have no a days that we find so disturbing and disappointing... not that people should not seek out what they want or feel they need.






sexyred1 -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 1:48:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Oh I love when I still get told I'm too young to understand something as if the concept of "history" and "research" and "learning from past generations" are all complete fictions.

The tired and worn rant of "These darn kids today..." is so overdone it's amazing people actually have the gall to restate them.  I guess it's also more amazing how clueless and arrogant every generation is to agree with, believe it and act like it actually is a new rant.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with my generation.  I'm just saying the problems we have today really aren't so different than previous generations, and a lot of them are the direct result of what the ranters did and created when they had their chance to make a difference.

But thanks for making me feel young again- feel free to try and tell me I'm too young to know what I'm talking about anytime. :)


That is very funny, LA. I guess you are the only one here allowed to make generalizations. You missed every salient point I made and decided to take offense at something that was not meant to offend you.

Oh, I doubt that the original OP or anyone else for that matter thinks this rant is original, just as your knee jerk reaction to being questioned on whether you experienced something first hand, is original either.

Good job.



Phin -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 1:57:59 PM)

"Welcome to McKink, can I take your order?"
"I will take a sub, a flogger, and 100 feet of rope."
"Would you like a singletail with that?"



dcnovice -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 1:58:50 PM)

quote:

"Welcome to McKink, can I take your order?"


Gives a whole new meaning to "Supersize me."



CrescentLuna -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 2:00:39 PM)

I rather like that if I'm seeking a bisexual kinky girl I don't have to languish in fantasy land because oh my god how would I EVER ask someone if they're into that? How would I learn the second codes to get into a club to try and find them, and what if they're only one trait or the other? Now there is international probability, and I'm willing to travel. ;)
I don't REALLY see how people have changed that much... Did 10, 20, 30 years ago people really work harder to establish long-term relationships? Because that would certainly explain their divorce rate now. Did the secret hand signals really keep jerks out of the kinky scenes, or did people only need to be safe and aware since 2002?
Frankly, I'm kind of glad that I live in era where I can google which suspension positions are safe and for how long and which are dangerous all the time.



MzMia -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 2:17:34 PM)

Drive thru BDSM service..
 
Hello Mistress, how can I serve you?
I want a spanking, bondage play, hot wax, and a side order of cbt.

Can you supersize the spanking?

What are the specials today?  Do you accept coupons?
This is how I feel about most of the "submissive" men online.



neloangelo1227 -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 2:19:18 PM)

(fast reply)

I think there is an unfortunate general attitude--among kinksters and vanilla folk--that "BDSM relationships" are somehow exempt from the rules and emotional trappings of "real relationships". This is patently false. It's true that play between two people can be "purely business" (for example, between a pro domme and her client), but I think that barring those few situations, there is no reason to believe that two people should be expected to engage in S&M play without the underlying foundation of an actual relationship. Some people believe that pure sensation play is "okay" to engage in without an underlying friendship or relationship because it isn't psychological like Domination/submission play is, but I disagree. Just because sensation play focuses on the body doesn't mean that it ignores the mind, and there can be all sorts of issues surrounding sensation play (especially pain play in the form of beatings, floggings, etc).

In a nutshell, I think that BDSM is, at its very core, a mutual trade of respect and trust between all involves parties, and it is just impossible to achieve trust with someone who is essentially a stranger to you. In the case of a pro domme, money fills the void normally populated by an actual relationship, but failing that, I think that some kind of trust--even if it is only the circumstantial trust created by playing at a public party--must exist for play to really be rewarding and, above all, safe.



Missokyst -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 2:30:23 PM)

hmm.. I guess I must have read it wrong.  I didn't see it as an attack on the way the younger generation does things.  Heck, men and women MY age jump in and out of "relationships" so fast I get nauseous watching it fly.  It is not a generational thing.  It is a societal thing.  And I am not just talking about living with bdsm.  This is happening all around in more ways than I care to count.  People want fast food (not just kids), manufactures make things with shorter expiration dates, we have become a culture of instant life, instant gratification, and fast recovery.
It is not YOUR generation.  It is US.  All of us.  We let it happen in our rush to outdo the neighbor.
Why work at making things work if you can just buy another tomorrow?  That is the current mindset of our society.  It is well beyond a generational idiom, it is our culture.
Kyst



hardbodysub -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 2:59:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Drive thru BDSM service..
 
Hello Mistress, how can I serve you?
I want a spanking, bondage play, hot wax, and a side order of cbt.

Can you supersize the spanking?

What are the specials today?  Do you accept coupons?
This is how I feel about most of the "submissive" men online.


I'd like the cbt to go, and hold the wax.



Prinsexx -> RE: Drive Thru BDSM (11/11/2007 3:26:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncontrol

This is inspired by the post on commitments.  While I had nothing to add to that post, much of what was said in there had me thinking off in this tangent.  Cultivating ourselves and our relationships seems to have gone by the wayside and I want to know why?

~Progress? My life has spanned the  pre- computer age to the newness of a mobile phone which is an i-pod and computer as a mini flat pack in the back pocket and I actually prefer the now. My youngest kids know no other reality.~

Our culture has moved away from common courtesies and general communication to instant messages, fast food dinners, microwave popcorn, credit card transactions.  It seems when we want something we have grown to expect to get it now, immediately and without work.  We are the instant gratification generation.

~Yes I agree to a certain point. But I am both. I can still do dinners that take a day to prepare and serve and a meal in seconds.....food here being an analogy for how I also can do kink and or sex. as well as a tour around my kitchen~

Our desire to have it now is surpassing common sense and isn't just a problem of materialism but also moved into relationships and personal identity.

~But of course I want it now, well not know, but as soon as is possible, as I have a sense of time running out and life being finite, very evry finite indeed. many friends have already passed.~

While the internet age has done wonders for the BDSM community at large, I think that it has also hurt it drastically.  Over the last 10 or so years I have seen what was an exclusive community, become something almost unsavory without discretion.  When I first started in the lifestyle 21 years ago..there was no internet.  You had to really dig around to find people of like minds, you had to meet ahead of time and get sponsors to get an invitation to a play party.  You had to earn the respect of the community and that was only achieved through time served.  Now, all you have to do is create a screen name and hit the internet button...instant Dom/Mistress/Master/sub/slave etc.

~Whilst in essence I agree with expertise, sophistication being equated with time served, we go back to the other aspect of bdsm....young dom(me)s bring a freshness, and yes whether we like it or not they are the Zeitgeist~

Furthermore, what ever happened to dating, courting, and growing a relationship?  It seems as though many expect that just because you share a similar kink or interest in the lifestyle that it should be enough to have a relationship.  Why do people expect play (especially involving sex) when they don't even know you? 

~They expect it without commitment...or without contract...or wthout discussion...I agree....it's like running a railway without a timetable...train crash after train crash after train crash... I myself was guilty of this and I got what I hadn't timetabled for.....~

I believe it is because when you are in a "relationship" for 5 weeks and you don't get the immediate gratification on your time line...you can leave...and yell NEXT!  There are many thousands of people on line or in your queue waiting for their number to be called up to counter.
~ Yes but I wouldn't want to 'go back' (even if that was existetially remotely) possible to the time of isolation, and scarcity of connection~  

Maybe I am alone in this, but I like to get to know someone, build trust, build a friendship, BUILD commitment to one another through time, effort and mutual respect, I don't just expect it to happen because I want it to.

~I do expect it to happen because I want it to.  A major flaw. Thankyou for pointing that out to me. ~

Why is everyone in such a hurry?  We all have the same inevitable destination...why rush to get there?  Time is our most valuable asset and I do not want to waste mine anymore than the next person...but I would rather spend my time cultivating friendships and relationships than going through hundreds of failed attempts.

~But I have: single mothering, clients, students, two books to proof and three being written, sick sister, friends needing help, washing, bills to pay, animals and yes that bloody grass that still needs mowing.....if I have a choice to be able to order my kink at a drive through...wow what a great idea.....I'll have one Uber dom and two switch beta bitches and make it snappy.......ohh and can I serve it myself it in the car park please?

Great opening post I think.....~






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