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Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 3:38:17 PM   
MasterDoc1


Posts: 173
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-westboro1031,0,7191706.story
I guess only politically correct speech is still constitutionally protected?
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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 3:43:48 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		Free speech is definitely ok. Being a shitheel is the problem.

(in reply to MasterDoc1)
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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 3:49:24 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		shitheel.... I do like that word....shitheel....it kinda just rolls off the tongue...I think I'm going to be using that quite a lot...

shitheel....


You're so right batshalom

juliet

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 4:04:38 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with both sides........ phelps and his band are "shitheels", that make me want to puke. But, they have to right to be offensive, I believe.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 4:11:45 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Free Speech is supposed to protect the most offensive thing a shitheel can say.

Orion

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 4:25:10 PM   
MasterDoc1


Posts: 173
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		When the Nazi's marched down a street where holocaust survivers in Skokie Ill. lived that was worse but it was allowed. But that was 30 years ago and the constitution matters less and less these days. Americans need to wake up before it is too late and they have no freedom at all left.

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 4:27:50 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		      One person's right to swing a fist stops at the tip of another person's nose.  Those families have a right to express their grief that outweighs the Westboro Shitheel Cult's right to interfere with that.

     Too bad this didn't happen at the very first funeral they decided to make themselves a part of.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 5:18:16 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		They weren't arrested for what they said. It's how they went about saying it and where they said it. They violated the family's expectation for privacy and intentionally inflicted emotional distress; and whether or not they were also arrested (unofficially) for what they said is of very little importance to me. I can't give you an exact definition of shitty behavior (without playing the semantics game) but I sure do know it when I see it.

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 5:24:22 PM   
FangsNfeet


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Joined: 12/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Free Speech is supposed to protect the most offensive thing a shitheel can say.
Orion


Yeah but is it really meant to protect someone when they are on your private property or function?

Kids are kicked out of school for using profantiy. People are fired from work for making sexual comments and using profanity. Free speech is protected. It's when and where you use it. Much like where you can and can't smoke.  A private function, such as a funeral, is reserved for the family and friends of the departed. If you can't respect there wishes, then you can look forward to being charged with trespassing as well as disturbing the peace. 

If Westboro really had balls, the group would go to Miltary bases and tell off duty troops to there face that they deserve to die. Since they belive they have the right to pass judgement, where are the balls for Westboro to carry out the sentence?

It's true, "I may not agree with what you say but I'll fight to the death to defend it."

However, don't think I'm not going to use my right to free speech to have a few choice words to say myself.   

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 5:35:12 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Wow, thanks TheHeretic.

I was seeing this as just another "bad politics makes bad law" thing because I do support almost wholly unfettered free speech. For some reason I just wasn't seeing how this case was like yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater. But yeah, the shitheels just didn't have a right that outweighed a prior right for the grievers.

Obviously the activities and teachings of those people are quite over the top, but I do defend their right to be arrogant assholes. But no, they don't have a right to be arrogant assholes in a way that trumps the rights of every other citizen.

-----

MasterDoc1:

I think the difference may be that the Nazi's put on an announced event. On that day, in a very precise way, they had the right to express their ideas however foolish and hateful. It wasn't a spontaneous event and it didn't necessarily shock the senses the way that surprise protesters at a funeral might. Nazis on the march certainly provokes and pushes the limits but I think it's actually a victory for the Jews of that town. With complete safety the Jews of that town could allow those idiot Nazis to march there and be vilified by millions of people the world over. Millions of people took a political stance in solidarity with the Jews against the Nazis on that day.

Nazis protesters showing up at a Jewish temple on the sabbath would have been a different thing. That shocks the senses and attempts to make freedom of speech trump a prior right to freedom of religion. And such right does not exist.

But these are very fine lines and very dangerous ideas being toyed with by morons. And for no good reason that I can see.


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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 5:41:21 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Right on, Heritic.

It's true, "I may not agree with what you say but I'll fight to the death to defend it."

Right on, FangsNfeet

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 5:49:38 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

If Westboro really had balls, the group would go to Miltary bases and tell off duty troops to there face that they deserve to die.


~chuckle~

I am officially holding my breath.

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 6:16:47 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		The shitheels showed up down here earlier this year, at a soldier's funeral. They had to stay... hm, a hundred, two hundred yards away, far enough where the family didn't hear them, and where they couldn't see them. A reasonable enough compromise, allow the family and mourners some peace, and the fucktards a venue for their lunacy.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to batshalom)
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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 6:18:26 PM   
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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

If Westboro really had balls, the group would go to Miltary bases and tell off duty troops to there face that they deserve to die.


~chuckle~

I am officially holding my breath.


Don't hold it too long, good lady; those kind of people rarely exhibit courage.
 
And an aside; you remember what I told you about yesterday? It's fixed, I do believe . Again, your kindness is appreciated.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to batshalom)
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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 6:19:00 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-westboro1031,0,7191706.story
I guess only politically correct speech is still constitutionally protected?



Actually,no.

If you went into your own town`s square,you could stand on a soap-box and repeat every vile,ugly,hurtful thing,that Phelps said,word for word.

Of course you wouldn`t do such a foolish thing,but you aren`t bared by law,from doing it.

You would be thought of as a bigoted nut-job and scary crazy person,and would have people recoiling and shielding there kids from you.But you wouldn`t be arrested.No one would listen to you(other then the weak minded),and you`d be shunned and ridiculed,but free to make an ass of yourself.

Free speech ,is alive and well.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/4/2007 6:43:24 PM >

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 6:22:29 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Yay!!!  I agree with owner59 and sugar on this one.  Its the time and place not the content.  Protests do not have the right to disrupt other peoples rights.

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 6:41:23 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		  Last month,I helped a friend straighten out her DMV "issues".
She was intimidated by all of it,so I went to the regional office with her.Sorting all her problems wasn`t impossible,and an after a hour and a few hundred bucks,she walked out with a valid DL.

As we walked into the place,there was a guy w/ a table out front.He was talking w/ some passers by,and giving out pamphlets.

I had a moment as my friend parked,and looked down.Only for a couple seconds though,and walked away as my friend caught up with me.Looked like normal stuff.

As I walked away,the guys says to me,"Ah! Alright,I guess you`re okay with communists teachers,teaching our kids!"

I shake my head,and do a double take.I look at the now "crazy guy",lol,and give him the expression that a nut-case deserves.I see folks like him in Manhattan,all time.They give you a creep/funny feeling in your gut.You know instinctively,that people like that are the one`s to avoid.

As we walk out,the guy practically steps into my path,going on with his crazy act.I have to walk around this guy,shielding my friend from him.Of course,she doesn`t have a clue about the world,with it`s millions of nut-jobs,big and small.She`s upset and put off by this guy,and can`t understand why anyone would do such things.I  explained that this was just part of the big world,and not to worry.
I hope that`s true.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/4/2007 6:46:06 PM >

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 7:17:26 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		I saw that on CNN.  I am glad the family was awarded that money.  I was furious when I found out it was a Baptist church because I am a born Southern Baptist. 
I think it prooves that the left and the right have went so far out that there is no center any longer for Americans.   For America to heal, we need to find our center.
I do not believe in Christians protesting anything because they are distorting what the word says to do.  Sorry for my rant, but that upset me as far as my religion goes.    We are not all bad.

Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 7:40:41 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

I saw that on CNN.  I am glad the family was awarded that money.  I was furious when I found out it was a Baptist church because I am a born Southern Baptist. 
I think it prooves that the left and the right have went so far out that there is no center any longer for Americans.   For America to heal, we need to find our center.
I do not believe in Christians protesting anything because they are distorting what the word says to do.  Sorry for my rant, but that upset me as far as my religion goes.    We are not all bad.

Regards, MissSCD


It`s not a left-right thing.IMO.

It`s a nut verses normal,thing.

It`s also an example of why we must keep church and state,separate.

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RE: Is free speech dead? - 11/4/2007 7:45:56 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD


I do not believe in Christians protesting anything because they are distorting what the word says to do. 




        It's been a great many years, MissSCD, but I do seem to remember something about money-changers...

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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