Is Giuliani just more of what we have now?

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Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 2:24:54 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Looking at the candidates, and their stance on issues, Guiliani seems 90% a carbon copy of Bush Jr. Is that what others get from his campaign?

http://www.ontheissues.org/Rudy_Giuliani.htm

Orion

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 2:44:58 PM

toservez

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Yes and no. I think he is a smarter version of King George but to me the biggest difference would be is that King George is on most things nothing more then a puppet for other people in things he does not care about and has just a few things he does actually care about. Giuliani to me is not a puppet. I think Giuliani only focuses on 9/11 because that is the only way he can win the nomination that it makes him look overly narrowed minded.

Now they are both bullies who have no ability to compromise and see things way too black and white in a world of gray but that in itself does not make them so similar.

All these candidates play a game to get nominated. For Giuliani his conservatism is questioned so mirroring Bush is his way to try to get the nomination. For Clinton it is a fear she is too left wing to win so she plays up being tough/hawk like in foreign affairs. After the nominations it is always fun how the messages of the nominees gets changed for the general election.

What are their real stances, I doubt anyone truly knows.

< Message edited by toservez -- 11/1/2007 2:47:50 PM >

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 4:46:34 PM

Owner59

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Much more ruthless,but honest about getting what he wants.

He`s also running to the right,of bush.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 6:27:03 PM

Level

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As far as Iraq, and that mentality, yes.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 6:28:26 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Honesty I can admire, even if I disagree with the substance. He seems to want confrontation, more so than Bush does. We need someone that will be able to cross party lines, to effect positive change. I do not see Giuliani as being able to do that. I see the US needing to consolidate power within itself, and that means not going to war unless necessary, pulling jobs back into the US, fixing the budget and trade deficit, fixing health care, handling immigration issues, and instilling some confidence back in the office.

Orion

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 6:37:33 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Looking at the candidates, and their stance on issues, Guiliani seems 90% a carbon copy of Bush Jr. Is that what others get from his campaign?

http://www.ontheissues.org/Rudy_Giuliani.htm

Orion

Yup, if Guiliani were to get in we'd be in Iraq for another 8 years.
Same Old Shit!

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 6:37:43 PM

Estring

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On taxes and the war thankfully yes. On spending and immigration, hopefully no.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 9:09:04 PM

TheHeretic

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       Rudy, Rudy, Rudy....   I'll be registering as a Republican (first time ever) so I can cast a meaningful vote for him in February. I've liked him since I saw his first inaugural address on C-Span. He strikes me as a man who can get things done, pragmatically if necessary.

      I attended a fundraiser for him a few weeks back, wound up seated very close to the lectern, and was able to form a real impression of him. Smart guy. Charismatic. None of that creepy 'other' vibe so many politicians (current President definitely included) radiate.

      And I think he's very right that you negotiate from strength.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 9:28:16 PM

Shawn1066

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Personally, Rudy swings a bit to far left for me to support him at this point...but I have an open mind about him, and the rest of the candidates, overall. He may impress me soon.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 9:34:00 PM

TheHeretic

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I swing well to the left of most Dem's I know on social issues, so if I had to pick something about him I don't like, it would be that he's too far right on free expression. I can live with that in the package.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 9:35:02 PM

DiurnalVampire

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Ohhh nooo. you said the G word. I hve to run and hide.
I said it before and I'll say it again. I lived under him once already in NY, if I have to do it again I am becoming canadian.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 11:32:30 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

I lived under him once already in NY

If I recall the crime statistics correctly, 'living' under Rudy Giuliani was a lot better than getting robbed/stabbed/raped under the previous few mayors. Or were you making a good living smearing crap and grease on car windshields until he got elected?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 11:53:20 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Rudy, Rudy, Rudy....   I'll be registering as a Republican (first time ever) so I can cast a meaningful vote for him in February. I've liked him since I saw his first inaugural address on C-Span. He strikes me as a man who can get things done, pragmatically if necessary.

     I attended a fundraiser for him a few weeks back, wound up seated very close to the lectern, and was able to form a real impression of him. Smart guy. Charismatic. None of that creepy 'other' vibe so many politicians (current President definitely included) radiate.

     And I think he's very right that you negotiate from strength.

Yeh more of the same shit different day! LOL

I will be registering as an independent and casting my vote for ron paul on the ballot or not because I would like to see a change from the corrupt shit you are voting for. Pragmatically corrupt or not.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/1/2007 11:57:32 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

We need someone that will be able to cross party lines, to effect positive change.
Orion

Personally I prefer a 2 party dictatorship instead of 1 so i have to disagree.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/2/2007 12:18:38 AM

Anachron

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Rudy, Rudy, Rudy....   I'll be registering as a Republican (first time ever) so I can cast a meaningful vote for him in February. I've liked him since I saw his first inaugural address on C-Span. He strikes me as a man who can get things done, pragmatically if necessary.

     I attended a fundraiser for him a few weeks back, wound up seated very close to the lectern, and was able to form a real impression of him. Smart guy. Charismatic. None of that creepy 'other' vibe so many politicians (current President definitely included) radiate.

     And I think he's very right that you negotiate from strength.

Here's what I hear when Giuliana talks...

"Terrorism, terrorism terrorism. Terror, ism ter ror ism. Ter? Or ism? Ter! Or ism. Fear. Terrorism terrorism: ter ror ism. 9-11. I 9-11 fear terrrorism. Terrorists ter, or ism 9-11. Homeland security. Terrorism. Fear. 9-11. September 11, security, me, I money, security, me, fear, security, sacrifice, fear, my patriotism, fear terrorism. Contributions. 9-11. Family, fear, Homeland Security, 9-11."

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/2/2007 1:26:18 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Ohhh nooo. you said the G word. I hve to run and hide.
I said it before and I'll say it again. I lived under him once already in NY, if I have to do it again I am becoming canadian.

Heh......The state of things is such that it wouldn't take wudy for me to want to become a Canadian......but I know whatcha mean.

I have no desire whatsoever to live in wudy's version of a sanatized,super-stringent, zero-crime society.

When I start reading posts--from non NYC residents-- that laud wudy's utopian experiment....what immediately comes to mind is a very grim version of Dr. Strangelove, Gattaca and 1984 all molded into one.

I grew up fifteen minutes north of San Francisco, north of the Golden Gate Bridge, and spent 34 years there.

During baseball and football seasons, we used attend all the 49er and SF Giants home games. Well....anyone that's been around knows that back in the old days, you used to have to drive through Bayview / Hunter's Point when venturing to Candlestick.

To make a long story short....The inhabitants of those neighborhoods used to pile trash and debris out in the middle of the streets in order get the traffic flowing by to slow down. They wanted money and hand outs – they were poor.

Before the games, we'd go to the store and buy a couple of cases of the ''Bull'' - Schlitz Malt Liquor. When we rolled through....we'd always hand out quarts and sometimes even stop and slam a few with those in neighborhood. It was fun as shit.....and to this day, I loved that part of going to those games.

So fuck wudy and his trumped-up, sanitized society crap. I wanna live....and live free.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 11/2/2007 2:21:46 AM >

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/2/2007 6:41:45 AM

sub4hire

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Living so close to Iowa we get to see a lot of the candidates. We haven't seen much of Giuliani. Word from the street and local business leaders is he is too busy to deal with little folk. We have however seen a lot of Mitt Romney...he is a bush wannabee the way he talks.

My biggest issues is he is in favor of the immigartion card. That way when an illegal applies for a job. The employer can check to see if they are hireable. If not, they won't hire them.
Well isn't that the same as a work visa...the same system that already does not work? If a major company hires illegals they really don't care if they are legal or not.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/2/2007 6:54:45 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachron

Here's what I hear when Giuliana talks...

"Terrorism, terrorism terrorism. Terror, ism ter ror ism. Ter? Or ism? Ter! Or ism. Fear. Terrorism terrorism: ter ror ism. 9-11. I 9-11 fear terrrorism. Terrorists ter, or ism 9-11. Homeland security. Terrorism. Fear. 9-11. September 11, security, me, I money, security, me, fear, security, sacrifice, fear, my patriotism, fear terrorism. Contributions. 9-11. Family, fear, Homeland Security, 9-11."

Perhaps new batteries for the hearing aid? Giuliani makes more sense on health care than anybody else out there. Same with fixing social security and trying to undo the damage in our schools.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/2/2007 7:46:45 AM

SuzanneKneeling

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Giuliani's similar to Bush in that they are both dictatorially-minded power-freaks who have zero compunctions against "bending" the truth to manipulate people. They both know that pumping the country with endless, boundless fear is a good way to keep control over them. Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler knew that too:

quote:

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

After the runup to Iraq one would hope that even the Republican base doesn't want another strongman figure who's happy to blatantly misrepresent the facts to obtain and keep power. But that appears to be what we have here. Latest example is his ridiculous misquoting of survival rates from prostate cancer in different health care systems. As far as I know this ad is still running on TV. Facts just don't matter with these people.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/a_bogus_cancer_statistic.html

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RE: Is Giuliani just more of what we have now? - 11/2/2007 8:31:09 AM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Ohhh nooo. you said the G word. I hve to run and hide.
I said it before and I'll say it again. I lived under him once already in NY, if I have to do it again I am becoming canadian.

I remember hearing a lot of that before 2004, just prior to President Bush being re-elected... big Libs promising to leave if they didn't get their way.

It turned out to be just empty rhetoric though, as very few who promised us that they would leave kept their word.

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