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ELUSIVE1 -> S&M (10/31/2007 2:54:31 PM)
'"The essence of sadomasochism is not so much "pain" as the overwhelming of one's senses - emotionally more than physically. Active sexual masochism has little to do with pain and everything to do with the search for emotional pleasure. When we understand that it is pain only, and not cruelty, that is the essential in this group of manifestations, we begin to come nearer to their explanation. The masochist desires to experience pain, but she generally desires that it should be inflicted in love; the sadist desires to inflict pain, but he desires that it should be felt as love...." This was sent to me in an email here on c/m--any thoughts on this??? I to agree with most of this...

probablyknowme -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 3:49:56 PM)
Hmmm, see that does not take into consideration those of us who are sensation players. For the most part, I am a masochist who simply takes erotic pain and turns it into pleasure...just the way my brain processes it. Erotic being the key word here. I don't necessarily need love from a Dom/Top to process pain as pleasure, just as the Dom/Top that is inflicting it doesn't necessarily need for me to love him. For me, for the most part, love and pain have very little to do with one another. Just my pound of written flesh, kat

RRafe -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 3:53:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 '"The essence of sadomasochism is not so much "pain" as the overwhelming of one's senses - emotionally more than physically. Active sexual masochism has little to do with pain and everything to do with the search for emotional pleasure. When we understand that it is pain only, and not cruelty, that is the essential in this group of manifestations, we begin to come nearer to their explanation. The masochist desires to experience pain, but she generally desires that it should be inflicted in love; the sadist desires to inflict pain, but he desires that it should be felt as love...." This was sent to me in an email here on c/m--any thoughts on this??? I to agree with most of this... Sounds like a way to rationalize sensation play as romance. Manipulation to attract females with fantasies to a sadist playing games. Pardon my cynicism-but I've seen this used time and again. Deeds have meanings-words often cloak truth in a web of misdirection. I just say things for what they are-not what I think will get me some fresh meat to play with.

Rover -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 3:59:05 PM)
I thought that sounded familiar... it's a quote directly from a booklet authored by Susan Wright (National Coalition for Sexual Freedom or NCSF) and Dr. Charles Moser (Phd, MD, and noted BDSM author). Here's a link for those who may be interested in reading the entire booklet, providing context for the quotation. http://www.leatherleadership.org/library/whatsm.htm John

KnightofMists -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:02:23 PM)
Considering what Rover has shared... I think RRafe's cynicism is very well placed in this particular situation.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:06:06 PM)
so like S&M kinda like M&M only with out the green ones

laurell3 -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:06:18 PM)
Well it might be a way to sell what it is that we do....but in many cases it's far from true or even the desired result.

RRafe -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:20:56 PM)
Shaking my head, replying to no one in particular. These things are what happen when one insists on living in fantasy worlds. You leave the keys to predation in your heads. If you read places like castle realm,and that is your reality and expectation-others are reading them as well. And they have not as pure of hearts as you do. Learn to think for yourselves people-or others will use the bad programming against you. Fantasy can come AFTER someone proves that thier words match thier deeds-if you have them too firmly entrenched before-they will betray you.

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:21:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover I thought that sounded familiar... it's a quote directly from a booklet authored by Susan Wright (National Coalition for Sexual Freedom or NCSF) and Dr. Charles Moser (Phd, MD, and noted BDSM author). Here's a link for those who may be interested in reading the entire booklet, providing context for the quotation. http://www.leatherleadership.org/library/whatsm.htm John thank you Rover now I can give credit where credit is due

chellekitty -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:24:02 PM)
nope....i like pain for pain's sake, and thus far the only people who have been able to give it to me have been people who did not love me and i did not love them...

missturbation -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:26:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty nope....i like pain for pain's sake, and thus far the only people who have been able to give it to me have been people who did not love me and i did not love them... This doesn't happen often [:D] but i totally agree with chelle here.

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:30:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 so like S&M kinda like M&M only with out the green ones but the green one is the flirty one

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:35:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty nope....i like pain for pain's sake, and thus far the only people who have been able to give it to me have been people who did not love me and i did not love them... This doesn't happen often [:D] but i totally agree with chelle here. I also love pain, but I can only let people I know and trust inflict that pain...so at the very least I want to feel some affection for them...love may be a bit too strong a word, but I will be the first to admit feeling the connection with the person inflicting the delicious pain on me

missturbation -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:38:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty nope....i like pain for pain's sake, and thus far the only people who have been able to give it to me have been people who did not love me and i did not love them... This doesn't happen often [:D] but i totally agree with chelle here. I also love pain, but I can only let people I know and trust inflict that pain...so at the very least I want to feel some affection for them...love may be a bit too strong a word, but I will be the first to admit feeling the connection with the person inflicting the delicious pain on me I agree, i think its more the hearts and flowers in the quote i disagree with.

Thorysus -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:44:57 PM)
I think pain is very important aspect. Now dont get me wrong im not claiming to be a Master orthe most experienced person on the block (because im not) but its that added sensation that turns me on. To see pain and pleasure mix and become as one in a person is the ultimate peak(s) of those strong drives. Love may be to strong of a word but deffinatly trust and desire are a must. Ohh and thanks for the link..PEACE.........

RRafe -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:47:11 PM)
I can control as effectively with pleasure impulses as pain ones-it's all about ramping it up. And I can also do that-without the massive collateral damage many seem to think it needs to get there. A little finesse goes a lot further than poorly applied force.

missturbation -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:53:11 PM)
I can control as effectively with pleasure impulses as pain ones-it's all about ramping it up Can you elaborate a little on this. Clarify what you mean?

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:55:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Shaking my head, replying to no one in particular. These things are what happen when one insists on living in fantasy worlds. You leave the keys to predation in your heads. If you read places like castle realm,and that is your reality and expectation-others are reading them as well. And they have not as pure of hearts as you do. Learn to think for yourselves people-or others will use the bad programming against you. Fantasy can come AFTER someone proves that thier words match thier deeds-if you have them too firmly entrenched before-they will betray you. RRafe, I recognized his motive for sending me this--I just found the entire quote interesting--no Idon't buy into the Casle REalm world-or any other 'online' world...I do however love to discuss intelligently with like minded individuals

RRafe -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:55:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I can control as effectively with pleasure impulses as pain ones-it's all about ramping it up Can you elaborate a little on this. Clarify what you mean? It's not just men that can be controlled by orgasn denial and reward.

RRafe -> RE: S&M (10/31/2007 4:57:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Shaking my head, replying to no one in particular. These things are what happen when one insists on living in fantasy worlds. You leave the keys to predation in your heads. If you read places like castle realm,and that is your reality and expectation-others are reading them as well. And they have not as pure of hearts as you do. Learn to think for yourselves people-or others will use the bad programming against you. Fantasy can come AFTER someone proves that thier words match thier deeds-if you have them too firmly entrenched before-they will betray you. RRafe, I recognized his motive for sending me this--I just found the entire quote interesting--no Idon't buy into the Casle REalm world-or any other 'online' world...I do however love to discuss intelligently with like minded individuals Not a problem, thus, my preface. I only intended what I said as a warning. Sheep are prey to wolves, best not to be one.

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