Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Living paycheck to paycheck in America


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Living paycheck to paycheck in America Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 4:32:13 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The calculus of living paycheck to paycheck in America is getting harder. What used to last four days might last half that long now. Pay the gas bill, but skip breakfast. Eat less for lunch so the kids can have a healthy dinner.

Across the nation, Americans are increasingly unable to stretch their dollars to the next payday as they juggle higher rent, food and energy bills. It's starting to affect middle-income working families as well as the poor, and has reached the point of affecting day-to-day calculations of merchants like Wal-Mart Stores Inc., 7-Eleven Inc. and Family Dollar Stores Inc.

Food pantries, which distribute foodstuffs to the needy, are reporting severe shortages and reduced government funding at the very time that they are seeing a surge of new people seeking their help.

While economists debate whether the country is headed for a recession, some say the financial stress is already the worst since the last downturn at the start of this decade.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071019/ap_on_bi_ge/stretching_paychecks

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 4:46:22 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
This would be do to the crapy American dollar and its fall from grace. Once the king of money the american dollar is now playing third chair to the canadian dollar and the almighty Eruo.
Now days america's economy suck so bad its actually dragging down the other markets. For example I got up this morning and checked my stocks (all of which are in the asain market) to find they had all droped two seconds later the Tv news anouced that this was the US economy's fault, I then threw the TV through the window.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 4:56:36 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
bush said the economy is good.   the prez debate last night- they hate hillery so much that bush light is better then hildog,

(in reply to joanus)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 4:59:05 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
Yeah lets all listen to the guy who doesn't learn from his mistakes and wants to bomb every country on the map including this one.


(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 5:05:51 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
The richest 1%, 5%. ENJOY  tax cuts.   everything is hunky dory. the war is on the credit card. no one pays- or it was going to pay for itself.

(in reply to joanus)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 5:55:51 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
Not surprising... you can't have the kind of spike in energy costs that we've seen over the past couple of years and not end up with inflation, and people on a low or fixed income are always the first to feel the effects. Gonna get worse before it gets better...

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 6:19:21 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

This would be do to the crapy American dollar and its fall from grace. Once the king of money the american dollar is now playing third chair to the canadian dollar and the almighty Eruo.
Now days america's economy suck so bad its actually dragging down the other markets. For example I got up this morning and checked my stocks (all of which are in the asain market) to find they had all droped two seconds later the Tv news anouced that this was the US economy's fault, I then threw the TV through the window.


Too bad about your TV.

Learn to control your temper, and then lobby the Democrats to open up our oil fields because according to the article increased fuel prices are responsible for this. Sure, the fishes off the coasts don't have many oil rigs to have to swim around, and the tundra teat mouse in Alaska isn't at all endangered, but families are going hungry because radical tree-huggers in Congress value anything and everything more than they do human life.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to joanus)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 11:45:29 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
It is going to get a hell of alot worse before it gets better.

In time, making say $50,000 a year you will be looking for an $800 car. The person selling that car will be doing so for food money. You think I'm kidding ? Just wait and see.

You see there are two phases to this problem. One is that we create less wealth in the US, this because of outsourcing to foreign countries. The other is that what wealth is still created is being sucked up more and more by the big guys.

In the years to come that $50,000 a year will not buy you a house. You will find that the big guys know that people need a place to live, and you will see the property available snatched up by future slumlords.

I have said it before and it warrats repeating - Money is not wealth. Money is simply a medium of exchange of true wealth, something like a representative of wealth, akin to the flag of a country. It is merely a symbol.

People think money solves everything, when in fact it is the worst thing to have. It does nothing but decrease in value every day. Anything else is better, property, tools, other durable goods. I wish I'd bought some huge underground gasoline tanks years ago when gas was "cheap".

Last week a buddy walked in here with a wood lathe, for $20. Twenty dollars !

My clan covets tools and machinery. One look at the basement will tell you. Even if it sits there and rusts, the rust can be ground off and the machine made like new almost, at least it will function. When the value of the dollar drops there is nothing that can be done. You lose.

The way I see money now is much different than years ago. I used to lust after money, and I made alot. I also spent alot. In the early 90s I had one job taking home about $350 a week, another making about $200 a week plus in my little side business I made between $200 and $400 a week. This was fifteen years ago.

Over time I lost my taste for it. When I get the stomach again to be in business, it is going to be something with alot of potential. Right now my time is worth more than money. I only work part time now and only make about two grand a month. I run out of money all the time. But I have time to think, to reflect, to participate in fora like this one. Right now I could do this without waking up before noon and always home before seven PM, but I opted for four days and almost always have Mondays off.

They say time is money, but I disagree, time is way more important than money. I was working full time back when I was like sixteen. I was making more money than my divorced Mother. I don't know how we made it before that, as I bribed her with half my take-home pay to let me quit school. Of course she knew that I was already smarter than some of the teachers. Some, not all.

Which brings us to another form of real wealth, knowledge and skills. I had them. I did not get them from school. I was designing circuits that actually worked as the electronics class was trying to teach about simple batteries. I was young enough to see certain things, like that Ohm's law is not some magical invention, it is simply a representation of the laws of nature. What price would you put on that kind of knowledge ? If I were able to sell my knowledge, that is that is would be stripped from my mind and implanted into the buyer's, it would not be for sale at any price. That's why I don't drop acid.

We have the ability to adapt, and that has been on my mind for quite some time. The time will come when it'll be like post WW1 Germany, a wheelbarrel full of money to buy a postage stamp. I can't say I am totally ready, but I am ahead of the pack.

The sad fact of the matter is, it is only going to get worse. To get better will require a massive upheaval of our socioeconomic structure. The rich are running things, and they always want more. They will never take less until we refuse. We make the wealth. Our knowledge and skills are wealth, our abilities and our drive are true wealth. It seems some of us don't have the drive anymore, but that is not always true. It's that some of us see money as the useless garbage that it is.

There is a song "Addicted to a dollar that ain't worth a dime". And you have heard the phrase "Another day another dollar". Well compared to the 1910s or so, the dollar is now worth a nickel. So if you work an eight hour day at fifteen per hour, you make 120 "dollars" a day. Taken in these terms, you need to make 200 "dollars" a day to make a real dollar a day.

There was an interesting ad for gold I read. They were advertising gold coins and illustrated that if you actually had the gold coins, from back when a new car cost a few hundred, you could still buy a new car with the same coins today. Kinda eerie to think about it that way, but I have every reason to believe it is true. A one dollar gold coin from the year 1900 is worth how much ? I won't bore you with the figures, suffice it to say that the figures do not make a good case for paper money.

This subject also creeped into the media in a song by Ronnie Montrose called "Paper Money". If you got P2P I suggest you get it. "You take away all my all my silver, take away all my gold, and hand me a stack of paper". If you decide to hear it, it might be listed under Sammy Hagar. HA.

I just happened to put that song on, another part "My car cost fifteen grand" now how old is that song ? Fucking fifteen grand for a car you probably don't get a cupholder. I'll tell you this, my Uncle was an executive at Ford, bought him a new Crown Vic, he asked "where are the floor mats ?". You don't get them anymore because of shipping costs, and this on a luxury car ! Later he bought a Buick Roadmaster. It came with floor mats I think.

This all points to the thinking of corporate America. It is so profit driven, so much into MONEY NOW MONEY NOW that they are killing the golden goose.

The existence of the stock market is part of the problem. It's almost as if the board of directors of companies are honor bound not to have any honor. It is now honorable to be greedy. What impact does that have on our lives ? look around. Everything breaks and costs a fortune to fix. And the repair shops are not making a killing either, they are pretty much hanging on by a thread in most cases. All small business suffers when big business creates these conditions.

I really don't like the media, but I do recommend the Montrose song, and a movie called "Other People's Money". The latter illustrates just how things work these days. It was one of Danny DeVitos serious roles. No humor of any import.

Another good one, if one wants to educate themself about how the world works is "The Palermo Connection" with Jim Belushi. Again, not much humor at all, but very educational. This one illustrates quite well how to manipulate public opinion, or the reporting of same.

Both of these movies should be "required reading" for people who, like me, are concerned about the shit that is going on in the world. And I very rarely send people to the TV set. I think mass media has been so abused that it is almost worthless. But every once in a while, somebody comes up with something good. Neither of the movies I mentioned got any serious promotion, and I can see the reason. If you see those two movies you will know why.

Boils down to this, there is no easy fix. Let me splain the stock market in the simplest of terms I can find. You got a company, and you can improve immensely on your widgets if only you had the money to buy a frazenstat. You go public.

People buy your stock, and then expect money for nothing, like interest from a bank, but more of it. You better make enough money not to "crash" the company, even with this debt load.

While I have been on the other side of the desk, I admit that I have never been in any sort of control in a publicly traded firm. I wouldn't want to be, that seems to me to be exactly between the old proverbial rock and hard place. Some of you may know this, I am glad not to have the stress.

I'll tell you this much, the players in the game are so big, that if I ever do start a company it will never be traded publicly and there will be no partners. The best money is made in niche markets and they require personal attention in most cases. Thing is, if it were easy everyone would be doing it.

The whole problem is that there are too many people. The old MLM scheme would never work otherwise, but when you buy that car, you get some steel and alot of plastic, and alot of over-engineering. And you are helping to pay people who produce nothing. Yes, some portion of the purchase price gets into the hands of the people who actually designed and built the car, but after you get through paying them, you are paying some suits whose function is to keep the taxes down, mismanage the company and play golf. Also, you are paying the shareholders. It's called dividends.

Now we have a situation where alot of retirement and personal investments are dependent on this system. Where do you think that money comes from ? We all pay it.

The big one is coming my friends, of that there is no doubt. Just try to be as ready as you can.

T

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 12:22:02 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
Funny you say that. I been bidding on tools at ebay- they go fast.

I am afraid to ask, but there has to be a plan-you know to be ok.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 12:50:08 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
Well, put it in perspective...

50 years ago a cup of coffe costs .05 cents. Today it is over a dollar.

Inflation has been going up for decades. That's nothing new. What is new however is that wages have either remained the same for many years or have even declined in some areas. And there are several factors to blame for that. But the two big ones is NAFTA and outsourcing.

There is also the corporate attitude today to increase profits by any means neccessary. Steve Ballmer who is the CEO of Microsoft told Congress straight up that Americans "make too much money." And that is why they are willing to fire Americans making $50,000 and hire people from India for $30,000. And that is what a lot of companies have begun to do.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 12:58:19 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
India is building a city for the purpose of medical tourism.  For 11k- including airfare- you can get a heart valve replaced there. [over 100k in the USA]

I looked into getting my teeth fixed in Mazelzon Mexico. 

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 1:08:41 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I looked into getting my teeth fixed in Mazelzon Mexico. 


You might want to check to see if they use novocaine down there... Otherwise you might go down there and find out just before the procedure, all you get is a shot of Tequila.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 5:55:24 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Well, put it in perspective...

50 years ago a cup of coffe costs .05 cents. Today it is over a dollar.

Inflation has been going up for decades. That's nothing new. What is new however is that wages have either remained the same for many years or have even declined in some areas. And there are several factors to blame for that. But the two big ones is NAFTA and outsourcing.

There is also the corporate attitude today to increase profits by any means neccessary. Steve Ballmer who is the CEO of Microsoft told Congress straight up that Americans "make too much money." And that is why they are willing to fire Americans making $50,000 and hire people from India for $30,000. And that is what a lot of companies have begun to do.

Did anyone ask Ballmer how much money he makes?  It's amazing how many CEOs or other senior members (CFO, etc) say that the workers make too much money, while pulling down a hell of a lot of money.

thornhappy

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 8:24:14 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

This would be do to the crapy American dollar and its fall from grace. Once the king of money the american dollar is now playing third chair to the canadian dollar and the almighty Eruo.
Now days america's economy suck so bad its actually dragging down the other markets. For example I got up this morning and checked my stocks (all of which are in the asain market) to find they had all droped two seconds later the Tv news anouced that this was the US economy's fault, I then threw the TV through the window.


Too bad about your TV.

Learn to control your temper, and then lobby the Democrats to open up our oil fields because according to the article increased fuel prices are responsible for this. Sure, the fishes off the coasts don't have many oil rigs to have to swim around, and the tundra teat mouse in Alaska isn't at all endangered, but families are going hungry because radical tree-huggers in Congress value anything and everything more than they do human life.

Sanity:
Your nescience of the problem never ceases to amaze me.
Consider, if you will, the concept that the U.S. imports about 30% of its oil.  I will save you the math problem....that means that we produce 70% of our own oil.  So why is it that when OPEC raises its prices our domestic producers raise the price of our domestic oil? 
Now, if you have been able to keep up with me and this whirlwind course in economics, what would drilling for oil in Alaska do for you at the pump?  How will it bring down the price of gasoline?  No matter how much oil the U.S. produces it will always be the same price as OPEC.
You are so wound up in your red/blue angst that you have a knee jerk reaction to blame the party you hate for everything that pisses you off.  If you can pry your foot out of your mouth please explain how it is that "tree hugging teat mice and democrats are responsible for the artificially high price of fuel and not the greed of korperate amerika (which is made up of both demopubs and republicrats).
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/22/2007 8:29:00 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 8:39:26 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline
I have heared this kind of whining for decades. There are always poor and unfortunates. Everybody who works should not borrow money and he/she should save at least 10% income. The only problem here is people live lifestyle they can not afford.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 8:41:11 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I looked into getting my teeth fixed in Mazelzon Mexico. 


You might want to check to see if they use novocaine down there... Otherwise you might go down there and find out just before the procedure, all you get is a shot of Tequila.

cyberdude:
Before you go shooting your mouth off you might investigate a little of what you are talking about.  Go across the boarder and go to a dentist office and look at his diploma.  You will find that in many cases he is a graduate of an American dental school, like USC.  Now before you start telling me that diplomas can be forged, which is something that most everyone knows.  Just copy down his name, year of graduation and the name of the school.  Contact the school and verify it.
I know all of this first hand because I needed some dental work and I went to Mexico to check on prices.  What I found was that I could get the same work done here in California at a dental clinic not fifty miles from my home for less than half of what the Mexican dentist wanted to charge.
In both cases I went into the procedure rooms and looked at all of the paraphernalia to see what I might be getting for my money.  I found zero difference between the offices in Mexico and the one I eventually chose to do the work here in California.
thompson

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 8:47:18 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
Thom, you are exactly the kind of person I will be discussing in MY next thread.

T

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 8:58:27 PM   
FrenchConnection


Posts: 5
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
Strangely enough, it's the top 10% that are paying more than 50% of the wage-earner's income taxes paid in the US.

I guess that means that those  who are PAYING the lion's share of the taxes actually got tax cuts!

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 9:09:29 PM   
SunnyTawse


Posts: 151
Joined: 11/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

This all points to the thinking of corporate America. It is so profit driven, so much into MONEY NOW MONEY NOW that they are killing the golden goose.

The existence of the stock market is part of the problem. It's almost as if the board of directors of companies are honor bound not to have any honor. It is now honorable to be greedy.




A lot of people are going to think you're a nut, Termyn8or, but I think you're right on the money. The trouble is... you can't SAY those things. Makes you sound like a nut. Kind of like the story of the Emperor's new clothes.

As for the stock market, you are more literally correct than you know. It's in their corporate charters--they are obligated to maximize their shareholders' return. Legally obligated.

I don't have all the details at my fingertips, but quite a few years ago there was a terrible chemical spill in India by an American company; killed lots of people and polluted everything around. The head of the company said something like, "I'm so sorry. It's entirely our fault. We're going to devote every cent to trying to help make things better." He got jerked out of a job so fast it made his head spin. The grounds? Violating his company's corporate charter to maximize their shareholders' returns.

There is a fairly new kind of charter now that you can choose when you incorporate in the U.S. that obligates you to take into account the good of the environment and the good of your employees and so forth... again, don't have all the details handy. But I'm willing to bet it's not going over very big with investors.

Sunny

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Living paycheck to paycheck in America - 10/22/2007 9:12:53 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrenchConnection

Strangely enough, it's the top 10% that are paying more than 50% of the wage-earner's income taxes paid in the US.

I guess that means that those  who are PAYING the lion's share of the taxes actually got tax cuts!

FrenchConnection:
To coin a phrase..."That is a pretty bold statement".  I would be interested in seeing your documentation.
thompson

(in reply to FrenchConnection)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Living paycheck to paycheck in America Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125