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So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 10:43:14 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		Why is it so many people believe that whips and canes automatically equate to bloody welts and deep bruises?    Why do some believe 'knife-play' must mean carving deeply into a body or actually cutting pieces of it off? 
 
Why do people bother to say whips or knives are Hard Limits?  Do they think people have no control?  I wonder if they also Hard Limit bricks and hard-soled shoes; they could hurt too, yanno!  What about rope; somebody could get HUNG!!!
 
I know plenty of people who use canes and whips and whose partners have never gone home with a mark!  I play with knives...I do not draw blood unless I want to. 
 
Pffffttttttttttt...  Everything is relative!
 
B

< Message edited by MsBearlee -- 10/19/2007 10:45:13 AM >

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 11:04:48 AM   
sublizzie


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Status: offline 		I think it's because they've not seen people use those implements in a way that did not cause blood flow, from both sides of the implement. Too many bad porn movies and an overly excitable imagination can lead people to believe some very far-fetched things.

I was lucky enough to have been introduced to canes, knives, fire-play, and floggers by people who knew exactly what they were doing. I've watched others play with implements that most people would run screaming from, if they'd never seen an expert use them.

I'm more afraid of a Dominant who can get inside my head and mess around with it before I realize what they've done than someone who knows what they are doing coming at me with a very sharp knife.

Just my thoughts...........

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 11:09:05 AM   
meticulousgirl


Posts: 969
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Status: offline 		i dont say that any of those are hard limits (guns to me are a hard limit) why just because i am genuinely afraid of them it's one of those things that if one (even unloaded) were pointed to me i would just freak out and want to run as far away as possible. 

I'm not a fan of canes or riding crops but i dont list them as hard limits for me the impact is a little more than i can honestly take.  When i am spanked for me i enjoy longer lasting spankings or paddlings because of the mental state that it puts me in, it's that humbled feeling, that submissive feeling where after a caning or a session with Masters riding crop i usually want to just crawl into a corner and die, i'm not saying that i wont take it when given, i'm saying that i dont like my personal reaction and the aftermath of those implements. 

Everyone is different but i dont really have any real no ways or hard limits other that guns and for now (until i'm positive that i have found the one any permamant marks ie branding, tats, or piercings) that's it for me.

~meticulous~

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 11:17:29 AM   
MsBearlee


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Me too, lizzie... 
 
I've watched/felt a whipthrower use a singletail in such a way that it barely kisses skin and leaves no mark at all.  I've watched/felt people use canes to go tap-tap-tap; ever so lightly upon a body...and never leave a stripe.  Knives do not have to draw blood, and hand-spanking sometimes leaves deep bruises that last days and days.
 
I do not understand statements like this:  '...the impact is a little more than i can honestly take" with regard to an impliment. 
 
I say know your partner!        ...everything else is all relative.
 
Perhaps a thread like this will help people consider such things...and realize bad porn and much online crap is just there for the entertainment (wank-appeal).
 
B

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 11:21:02 AM   
VieVivante


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quote:

Do they think people have no control?


Well, that is it in a nutshell, no? There are too many people scening with these things without the training to know how to use them effectively and safely. Yeah, if you had a whipping fantasy and hooked up with someone who claimed they knew what they were doing, but didn't, someone could connect these items with undue harm.

There are many people who have been burned by amateurs pretending to be something they are not.

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 11:45:21 AM   
toservez


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Status: offline 		I often believe that the “cool” factor often plays into people’s public stances and personal explanations on their limits. I think many naturally go to the more extreme/worse case scenarios when discussing things they do not do for what ever the reasons.

I think no one intentionally but just how it is there is often a level of the more you do and farther you go/less limits you have in these areas the cooler you are. So the person not into pain/bruises presents the most severe things when talking about impact play as a way to justify their limit in a mistaken thought that having a limit or a limit to a certain degree is wrong or bad.

Of course not the case at all and there are levels to all types of play and many if not all who stay in this life are not about the pushing how far we can go but just living and enjoying the things in our way.

I think it is about ignorance and image of what they think people want and how they want to perceive. If a submissive wrote in another thread about being in a significant power exchange relationship and being with a sadist but can only ENJOYS light pain, people would probably chest thump that it is not about their pleasure but enduring for their dominant. For some of us that is our way but the reality is this is also very mental not just physical and people have real and serious levels of what they can take.

No one is better then another, just different.


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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 11:52:57 AM   
Synocense


Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline 		Simply fear of the unknown, uneducated or a bad experience. It think it is my place in the Leather Community to educate and help those who reach out for it, until then, they will believe what they feel at that moment and I do not scoff, I smile and say "my experience has been different" ..

Syn

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 11:59:33 AM   
pseudopsychotic


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quote:

Why do people bother to say whips or knives are Hard Limits? 



Because they fell like it.

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 12:24:47 PM   
MsBearlee


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Well, yet another reason to encourage people to KNOW their partners, huh?
 
Heck, I've met plenty of people online, who obviously are making stuff up as they go along.  I've also met people in real-life who turned out to be quaks/fakes/pretenders.  That would be why it makes sense to get to know people before ya go putting yourself in harms way. 
 
Sure, I've played with people whom I've just met, but those people were friends of friends or came with strong recommendations from well-respected members in the lifestyle. 
 
I guess I just do not understand saying an object is a hard limit, though I can understand putting limits on new friends...  "No, I don't want you to tie me up yet...we need to spend some time getting to know each other, first."
 
Perhaps it's just me,
B

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 1:14:10 PM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline 		Meh.  There are some things that are hard limits, no matter what.  For my subs, and for me.  But then - other things that, if you take the time to talk to someone about what it means to you (knife play is a great example), they will find their interest growing in your definition.

It's really all about communication.  Some hard limits are just that.  Others are hard limits until they get to know their partner better.  On the other hand - if it's something you really don't want to try yet until you trust your partner, what better way to mention that than to call it a hard limit?

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 1:29:10 PM   
MsBearlee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dari

... Others are hard limits until they get to know their partner better. 
...



Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, well; that is a different thread entirely.  In my opinion, a hard limit is something one would never do; kind of like RED means stop and a collar signifies ownership.  But, I have simple tastes and uncomplicated, old fashioned ideas.  Perhaps words mean something else to other people.  They can go start a thread, again, about what they believe words to mean.
 
I came up the ranks (so to speak), believing negotable limits are things you discuss with a potential partner... Hard limits are things you would just not do.  Period.  But, that's just me and the meanings of 'limit' is not really the topic of this thread.
 
MsB

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 1:36:29 PM   
Daddyskittin


Posts: 58
Joined: 9/18/2007
Status: offline 		I've walked up to so many people over the years, and had to take impliments out of their hands it's not even funny... when people have asked me about how to go about listing limits and the degree of limitation in the various areas I've always kept it simple an say... better safe than sorry.



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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 1:37:43 PM   
OrrisKitten


Posts: 59
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline 		For me I have single tail whips as a hard limit because they scare me on such a mental level. I have never seen them used in person, but from videos and the thought of it just scares me in a bad way. I also know my dom is not comfortable with using one of those, which is why I decided to keep it a hard limit. I know that some things I do not have a limit on can do much more damage physically if used in some ways, but for me its all about irrational fears I guess.

I used to have needles as a hard limit (and they are still a soft limit) also from the irrational fear thing (To this day I completely go into panic mode if I have to go to the doctor or get a blood test) but since talking to someone experiened in needle play, it is now a soft limit... I am willing to watch and get close to considering it, so maybe my other hard limits would change as well, but who knows.

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 1:38:33 PM   
Littlepita


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

I came up the ranks (so to speak), believing negotable limits are things you discuss with a potential partner... Hard limits are things you would just not do.  Period.  But, that's just me and the meanings of 'limit' is not really the topic of this thread.
 
MsB


I'm pretty new to this world and that is exactly how I view my limits as well. The things that are hard limits will ALWAYS be hard limits. The rest is all up to negotiation and timing.

I do not mark easily. In fact, he won't mark me most of the time because he is afraid to do real damage to obtain the mark. We did do a carving (no blood drawn) on my tushy at my collaring ceremony and that left a lovely reminder for weeks.

Also, I would much rather have the cane, whip, crop or any other evil implement instead of that wicked dollar store hairbrush of his. It's all relative!

Oh and MsBearlee, you look super hot in that new av of yours.

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 1:41:39 PM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline 		Particular to this site, your profiile choices when moving toward the negative side go from "Dislikes" to "Hard Limit."  I don't see "Negotiable Limit" as an option, so if given the choice of "Dislikes" and "Hard Limit" for something like Knife Play, which when done improperly risks disfigurement or death - I'll choose "Hard Limit" over "Dislikes," and mention that it's up for negotiation after I get to know someone.


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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 1:50:29 PM   
MsBearlee


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awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... Thank you pita!
 
And as far as making something a hard limit because of some irrational, emotional fear...that makes perfect sense to me.  When I was brand new, I made needles a hard limit because I had no idea what they were about, but sticking pins in my body sounded horrible!!!  
 
And then I saw, watched, read; listened.  I no longer never say never, or at least I try very hard not to do so.  I just try to keep in mind everything is relative; sliding a sterile needle just under my skin and right back out is a ritualistic experience I enjoy these days...and OMG does it ever get the endorphins running!  (both for giver & receiver, btw).
 
The purpose of this thread was just to get people THINKING.  Rope is rope, unless it's a hangman's noose.  A hand is a hand, unless it's a fist smashed against a face.  A paddle is a paddle untill it is a weapon used to abuse an unwilling victim.  A whip can kiss, a knife can scrape off wax and delight the skin, and a cane can be used in as soft, rhythmic, tapping to push a person into la-la-land.
 
B 

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 2:05:50 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

I do not understand statements like this:  '...the impact is a little more than i can honestly take" with regard to an impliment. 
 
I say know your partner!        ...everything else is all relative.
 


While I understand most of what you are saying, and yes, I know instruments can be wielded at varying levels of intensity, I'm not sure what there is to 'not understand' about the quoted statement. 

I don't know my preferences from watching movies. 

I know them from exerience. 

I happen to know that I don't like whips.  Not one bit.  I didn't just decide this from watching a movie or a bad scene.  I've had them used on me and I flat out didn't enjoy them.  It had nothing to do with the experience level of the wielder, as they were extremely knowledgeable and knew how to wield the things.  I just didn't like that particular sensation. A soft sting or a biting sting, is still a sting and not something I like.  No, I don't make them a limit, and I never cancel them out completely, but I definitely prefer not to have one used on me.  However, I can see how someone can know how an implement feels and know that it isn't a sensation that they can tolerate.  Not everyone who enjoys BDSM - is a hard core masochist. 

The rest you posted on, I understand the point you were making.  People probably do limit the scope of their experiences based off of misconceptions or lack of knowledge or just plain irrational fear, just as many do know, first hand, what they like and don't like, what they can and can't tolerate and what they are willing or not willing to endure.


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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 2:29:49 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

Why is it so many people believe that whips and canes automatically equate to bloody welts and deep bruises?    Why do some believe 'knife-play' must mean carving deeply into a body or actually cutting pieces of it off? 
 
Why do people bother to say whips or knives are Hard Limits?  Do they think people have no control?  I wonder if they also Hard Limit bricks and hard-soled shoes; they could hurt too, yanno!  What about rope; somebody could get HUNG!!!
 

since i'm not speaking for the general population, i'm merely going to answer for myself. why do i bother to say whips and knives are Hard Limits? the same reason i don't do fire, wax, or whatever play because i have no interest in a kink that involves something like that.  call it a personal perference i have ...my kink interests do not run into something like that and never will. 


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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 2:51:25 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		They let fear and ignorance control their choices.  Happens all the time.

And I KNOW you know better when it comes to subject titles.

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RE: So as not to hijack another thread... - 10/19/2007 2:58:02 PM   
sweetNsmartBBW


Posts: 167
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Status: offline 		Or...maybe...they are not into those aspects of this very varied blanket under which BDSM falls?  Just because somebody is into power exchange, it does not necessarily mean they are into whips, canes, knives...or rope...or bondage....or any other specific implement.  If it's not something they are interested in, not something they have any desire to explore- not something they are looking to share with a partner- then I can certainly seeing it being a hard limit.  Does not have to have anything to do with the amount of control another person exhibits- could just boil down to a case of Your kink is different than their kink.  Certainly, it could be a case of fear or ignorance- then again, could just be a personal preference. 

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