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japanese rope bondage - 10/19/2007 9:22:07 AM   
LadyRope


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Hello everyone,I just learned of some interesting information, a little friday tidbit... on October 25th,the show Law and Order criminal intent,will contain an investigation of a woman found strangled in
Japanese rope bondage. The episode is entitled Lonelyville. O f course once again its a negative portrayal of wiitwd,however it might be interesting to watch....

  happy weekend everyone ,cheers
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/19/2007 12:08:54 PM   
Petronius


Posts: 289
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		There have been a couple of episodes involving bdsm. One specifically involved Japanese bondage, which, given TV, they got totally wrong.

The Domme "specialized in Japanese silk rope bondage. I can tie you so tight you can't move a muscle."

Of course:

1) The Japanese use hemp, not silk, ropes.

2) Japanese bondage comes with built-in "wiggle room" for the person tied.

But thanks for the tip. I always find it interesting how mainstream media treats bdsm.

(in reply to LadyRope)
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 8:55:21 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		See and I thought CSI did a good job with making them respectable people I was just upset that all they showed was a Pro Domme in a Cat House. It kind of pissed me off that they used BDSM as an analogy for revenge but it was interesting that they made Lady Heather a very kind and respectable person even Grisiom was interested.

Petronius,
I don't claim to be a Master at Shibari BUT, Hemp rope is Rough and with the invention of Nylon most everyone stopped using it I have seen presentations where Shibari Masters use Nylon I have never seen silk used because it is so damned expensive. As far as Shibari having built in wiggle room, most Shibari is done without knots and uses mostly hitches and couonter ties meaning that as you wiggle it gets tighter it is a fear when using shibari in suspension bondage because it could tighten up and cause suffication.

I am not saying you are mistaken at all I am wanting to know where your information comes from as I am a fan of bondage and want to learn more. I would like to know more about the History of Japanesse rope bondage (Shibari for those not keeping up)

As for tying up someone so tightly they can't move I know it's hard for some to grasp but in clubs it is common for a girl to be hard bound and have a timer for when she MUST be cut down. or out. Not everyone follows the same rules so when I watch shows like that I have to accept that someone out there probably does act that way and I let it go.

As Always

Steel

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 8:56:26 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Is this the show that gave us Fred Thompson?

(in reply to LadyRope)
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 9:00:39 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah, Hemp rope is Rough and with the invention of Nylon most everyone stopped using it


that has not been my experiance...

for me its two flavors of icecream...i love the tight itchy scratchy...and i love the sily stretchy too....

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 9:15:28 AM   
LadyRope


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am sorry but you are misinformed,hemp is processed and after the process,its becomes less fiberous and even soft and after each use becomes more soft...and is widely used with in the kinbaku commuity of riggers and rope sluts...many use man made fibers of course,but the purists,and there are many of us,exclusivly use hemp or jute,infact in Japan,jute is the prerferred rope of choice...

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 9:17:50 AM   
LadyRope


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		LM.lol yes one of those Law and Orders is where we got the lovely and tallented Mr President,lol

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 9:31:08 AM   
LadyRope


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		the fear of harm in suspenstion bondage is the same with any bondage when someone is suspended,western or asian,its the damage that can be done from nerve compresion,or someone tying a part of the body incorrectly due ti not knowing where arteries and nevers are located on the body...as far as wiggle room,no kinbaku is tied tight there is no need for it,as the rope palcements and the number of times its wrapped is where the restiction comes from,not the tightness of the rope...thats why people need to LEARN how to tie this style of rope bondage,its all about the placement ...great info is found in many book now adays,from Master Ks book,Midoris ,Tatu's site Ds arts,Esinem's site...Japan rope,Bridget Harringtons book,its a fusion of shibari style and western....there is so much information now out that just typing in google or going to amazon will give you all the books you need...

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 10:45:38 AM   
calicowgirl


Posts: 98
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline 		I don't really have anything to say other than hemp is absolutely wonderful stuff. I am not sure but from what I understand some presenters use rope other than hemp simply because it can be machine washed making it easier to be used on different partners.

cali


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(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 11:07:50 AM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Mmmm, just wanted to pop in as another greedy rope slut.  I'll definitely be watching that episode because I can't get enough of rope bondage, whether it involves dead bodies or not.  It is a shame that media portrayals like this misrepresent wiitwd to the vanilla world, but am I wrong to still think it sounds hot?



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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 12:16:48 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I don't claim to be a Master at Shibari BUT, Hemp rope is Rough and with the invention of Nylon most everyone stopped using it I have seen presentations where Shibari Masters use Nylon I have never seen silk used because it is so damned expensive.


Sorry, but no. There's scores of people out there using hemp (and jute) ropes. That's not just hemp from the hardware store, but carefully prepared and processed rope for bondage. Shibari techniques (like using wraps and tucks instead of knots) rely to a great extent on using high friction ropes. Shibari techniques with nylon therefore is a pretty bad idea. You can use nylon for bondage, and even bondage that looks like japanese bondage, but you better make damn sure the knots you use are really knots and not somthing that just looks like knots. Besides, "rough ropes", and even properly prepared hemp is indeed a little rough, add a certain dimension that many bottoms highly appreciate :-)

quote:


meaning that as you wiggle it gets tighter it is a fear when using shibari in suspension bondage because it could tighten up and cause suffication.


Shibari bondages do not always tighten by wiggling. On the contrary, most bondage techniques (japanes and western alike) are aimed at preventing tightning, as tightning can damage the bottom by cutting of circulation and compressing vulnerable nerves. Of course, many bondage techniques are aimed at making it highly unpleasant to wiggle, but that's a whole different story :-)

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 1:44:45 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		I cannot argue with anything that has been said as it was confirmed by many of the people I talked to. I have a brief history in Shibari. I have seen a few presentations in which all that was used was Nylon for the type of suspensions that they were doing. Mostly Artistic and so they used the Nylon for it's multiple colors.

I choose not to use hump because I don't care for the feel of it. But I am no masochist and no bottom.

Thank you all for your comments.

As Always

Steel

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 1:58:46 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
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From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I have seen a few presentations in which all that was used was Nylon for the type of suspensions that they were doing. Mostly Artistic and so they used the Nylon for it's multiple colors.


That's all very well, but what's that got to do with Shibari? If it uses different ropes, different techniques, and a different feel for aesthetics... I'd call it bondage.

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 10/20/2007 2:20:19 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		From Wikopedia

Japanese Bondage is said to differ from Western bondage in that, instead of just immobilizing or restraining the bottom, the bottom gains pleasure from being under the pressure and strain of the ropes, squeezing the breasts or genitals—though there are examples found among Western bondage enthusiasts such as John Willie. The main difference is that Western full-body bondage uses long lengths of rope (early on cotton rope, later in the 1980s or 1990s nylon become popular, later still—around 2000—and multi-filament polypropylene (MFP) ropes, became popular for some; as opposed to Japanese bondage which uses multiple pieces of natural vegetable fiber rope (hemp, jute, or linen) of 7 meters. Traditional Kinbaku uses no knots whatsoever. Modern Japanese inspired bondage as practiced in the West also uses relatively simple knots (requiring only about two to five types of knots), while western bondage enthusiasts tend to favor more complex knots.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Small Difference but I beliefe there is a definable difference between Shibari and Bondage.

Shibari is a TYPE of Bondage yes but so is SenDep and I don't do that so I have to note there is a difference.

Also as I was researching the term Shibari I had a lot of my other misconceptions cleared up


As Always

Steel

< Message edited by SteelofUtah -- 10/20/2007 2:21:42 PM >

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 1/20/2008 11:41:22 AM   
Esinem


Posts: 156
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline 		I'd dispute whether there is such a thing as "traditional kinbaku", unless it is meant in the sense of the literal translation of "bondage" (shibari translates as "tying" and is a verb, although we in the West use it to mean "bondage") As far as I can tell, kinbaku is a relatively modern development of the last century but I could be wrong. I am beginning to wonder where the 'no knots' concept comes from as I recently saw a Japanese book on hojujutsu techniques which had a lot of what I would call knots, some even resembling Celtic knots. The book was shown to me by Natasha Morgan, a 15th dan in ninjutsu, so I reckoon it was the real deal. Certainly, many of the hojujutsu ties were designed to tighten and often choke a struggling victim. Maybe that's where the program got this idea?

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 1/20/2008 11:50:23 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		I really liked Leady Heather too, I loved watching Grisom react to Her-a strong, powerful, very glamorous woman, I swear I could see him sqirm when she was about, I'll bet he's dieing to submit to her, there seemed to be a -lot- of chemistry between the two of them.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 1/20/2008 2:43:20 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		I can just see most of  the shows and media showing us all like freaks deviants and weirdos with criminal acts in our minds .Yes i am a deviant as defined to deviate from the norm  yes i have earned my freak status through many years of efforts and practice ,and true were are all a bit weird and thats ok but the whole criminal side always being shown and showing us in such a negative  light gets old to me .Kinda like Eddie Izzard says in his stand up , he is an executive transvestite not a weirdo one  .Maybe they should have better consultants  on such shows but i know i don't need to view this  program .At least the WE channel s secret lives of women uses  actual people .
As far as traditional vs modern rope bondage and what is used , i have seen hemp ,silk ,jute ,even cotton ropes .Its more the artistry  and form and takes many dedicated years .Also used is well placed bamboo at times .
No i shall not nit pick every knot and what type of material was used as i am Not an expert , its just my main gripe is, it just gets old to be viewed in the likes of serial killers ,kidnappers ,mutilators and worse .Just because i have always had  bdsm as a part of my genetic make up does not mean i am the sweeney todd jack the ripper ,criminal minds slasher .Tigrita  i think you hit my feelings on this well in the misrepresentation line t/y .

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RE: japanese rope bondage - 1/20/2008 2:54:14 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

From Wikopedia

Japanese Bondage is said to differ from Western bondage in that, instead of just immobilizing or restraining the bottom, the bottom gains pleasure from being under the pressure and strain of the ropes, squeezing the breasts or genitals—though there are examples found among Western bondage enthusiasts such as John Willie. The main difference is that Western full-body bondage uses long lengths of rope (early on cotton rope, later in the 1980s or 1990s nylon become popular, later still—around 2000—and multi-filament polypropylene (MFP) ropes, became popular for some; as opposed to Japanese bondage which uses multiple pieces of natural vegetable fiber rope (hemp, jute, or linen) of 7 meters. Traditional Kinbaku uses no knots whatsoever. Modern Japanese inspired bondage as practiced in the West also uses relatively simple knots (requiring only about two to five types of knots), while western bondage enthusiasts tend to favor more complex knots.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Small Difference but I beliefe there is a definable difference between Shibari and Bondage.

Shibari is a TYPE of Bondage yes but so is SenDep and I don't do that so I have to note there is a difference.

Also as I was researching the term Shibari I had a lot of my other misconceptions cleared up


As Always

Steel


Are you experienced with any of this yourself? You have a lot of misinformation. For instnce, Hemp rope is preconditioned and gets soft and supple.

I find it amusing that you take Wikpedia to argue against people who practice rope bondage regularly. So you will take Wikpedia's word over ours?

I didnt know the researchers for Wikpedia were involved with BDSM?

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 1/20/2008 2:55:03 PM >

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 1/20/2008 3:00:30 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

From Wikopedia


I'm not really satisfied with that wikipedia entry, but I'm not sure how to improve it. The squeezing of genitals is just not what makes a bondage shibari.

My main problem with synthetic ropes is that many shibari techniques rely on high friction ropes, like suspending without knots, so that simply rules out most synthetics. Also, Japanese aesthetices favours natural materials. But it is easy to say what's not shibari, I've found, but bloody difficult to say what it is.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: japanese rope bondage - 1/20/2008 3:55:32 PM   
DaggerDom


Posts: 38
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I just like to think back to the good old days when we did not need to speak Japanese in order to be able to tie someone up.

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