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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 4:14:29 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

The best way to avoid this mess is not to get married in the first place.   


Katy, I agree, nothing like a good friendship and enjoying each other's company.


I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but I will point out that staying unmarried isn't always less messy... unless you stay alone.  If you partner with someone long-term and cohabitate, expect that there will be issues if you separate.  You generally cannot intertwine lives for any length of time and then just unravel them cleanly to separate.

Of course, you can take steps to keep things as separate as possible... but in a way, I think that's kind of sad.  Planning for the end of a relationship from the beginning sounds so... pessimistic.  I don't like being pessimistic, but it can be necessary.

As we won't be marrying, I do have an obligation to look out for myself in some legally recognizable fashion should FirmhandKY and I decide to take any major steps that might have negative ramifications for me in the future should we ever separate.  A joint bank account, mixing financial investments (such as buying a house), building a business together, and even career moves are all issues that can have an impact and have to be considered.

Some situations have no safe alternative solution.  FirmhandKY has said before that he prefers his other to be "stay-at-home", although he is supportive of my having a career if that is what I desire.  Under the circumstances, it doesn't really matter what I desire... I'm obligated to live my life as though I will always be on my own.  Any interruption of my career would be a financial loss in returning to the workforce.

So... perhaps it isn't marriage itself that is so bad but rather entwining your life with another to the point where you share finances, property and obligations without careful consideration.

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 4:25:02 PM   
HotFaerieMama


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i was married  for 2 years i recently got divorced and everything that i owned before i was married still belonged to me. but i'm in Georgia.. so dunno if that helped any and oh get a good lawyer! - my ex hubby didn't get a lawyer and he got screwed. i am glad that i did it i am a much happier person!

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 5:07:34 PM   
HottLicks


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I have seen this go lots of ways... mostly to the lawyers.  Not marrying isn't always an answer... common law marriage laws have changed and sometimes they consider you married whether you do or not.  If you own a house and sell it and buy a house with your new spouse... I have seen the prior investment funds be split rather than go where they should... but then the lawyers milked it for so long that no one got anything but the lawyers. lol

So... prenups seem to be the only protection you might have.  Don't marry, don't share... don't even live together in some states... lol

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 5:27:50 PM   
Aneirin


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I am not sure where the law lies, but I am seperated pending divorce.I understand what I had in the marriage either before or during became common property and by that,my 'ex', has a right to it as well as being married the property becomes owned by both.Divorce will occur, what my ex desire she may have,as they are only things.I myself will have myself along with my present and my future with thoughts to do better and replace those things lost if they are that necessary.

As I see it,but this might be my particular thoughts on the process, divorce is the legal parting of two whom were legally married, an end to a legal relationship.Though there may be sadness for things that could have been and regrets for things not done to avoid the situation, two people will part and seek their lives as legal singular persons.To me,property,things does not even come into it. When I proposed to marry, I accepted as offering to share what it is I had, as well as myself.

Too often divorce comes down to material goods.Prenuptual agreements,well I have known one who did, but to me, the agreement was almost a preconceived admission that the marriage would fail or be expected to fail. Something to me that does not show ultimate commitment, something I will have nothing of.

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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 5:52:52 PM   
KatyLied


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I'm talking about not married.  As in not living together, not contributing to each other's upkeep, maintaining separate residences, protecting your assets from the intrusion of another party.

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(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 6:38:37 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HottLicks

... Not marrying isn't always an answer... common law marriage laws have changed and sometimes they consider you married whether you do or not.


I agree that not marrying isn't always an answer.  Also, common law marriage isn't so common anymore... there are only 12 states left who still have common law marriage, though all states recognize a common law marriage from another state.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

.... was almost a preconceived admission that the marriage would fail or be expected to fail. Something to me that does not show ultimate commitment, something I will have nothing of.


I can understand your feelings and I would never have agreed to a prenuptual, myself, when I was younger.  For practical reasons now however, I can understand the necessity for taking appropriate precautions... though I still dislike the idea of going in to a relationship with the "keeping one foot out the door" mentality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I'm talking about not married.  As in not living together, not contributing to each other's upkeep, maintaining separate residences, protecting your assets from the intrusion of another party.


Oh... sorry.  My mind reading skills must be a bit rusty.   

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 6:41:48 PM   
MiladyElaine


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He can always pull the old trick of putting it in a good friend's name till the divorce is settled then switching back.

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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 6:49:18 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

IMO the attys will get it all.  [but then i am cynical]


Most states say that you keep what you came into the marriage with,and share everything after that.

There are ways to divorce without lawyers and huge lawyer bills.

If they don`t want to burn each other,they can get a arbitrator to set the terms.Then they both go to court(with out lawyers),and the judge does the rest.They agree and the judge whacks the gavel.

Caution,if the judge gets any inclination that there are un-settled issues,he`ll/she`ll throw them out,after a lecture.

Get them to consider this,b/c it`ll save gobbs of money.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/9/2007 6:52:48 PM >


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(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 6:55:59 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

Oh... sorry. My mind reading skills must be a bit rusty.


No, no, I was just clarifying.  I don't know the in's and out's of cohabitation, but it seems like it would be a slippery slope, even without being married, because both are contributing sharing expenses. 

A lot of my attitude comes from being married, divorced, and starting all over again.  That's something I don't want to and can't afford to do, at my young (ha!) age.

And I agree that it's awful to have to consider the possbility of divorce at the beginning of a marriage.  But if you have things like a home, retirement, IRA's, um's, it's a consideration.


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(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Divorce Question - 10/9/2007 7:12:46 PM   
ChicagoSwitchMal


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You have to consider the possiblity of it sadly. More marrages end in divorce than end in 'til death do part' and even though all marrages begin with everything being "ours" they tend to end with "who gets what".

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 4:57:20 AM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

A lot of my attitude comes from being married, divorced, and starting all over again.  That's something I don't want to and can't afford to do, at my young (ha!) age.


I do understand and sympathize.  Before leaving my 22 year marriage, I did a lot of soul searching... starting over at 42 was very scary.  At 45 now and established on my own, the idea of having to start over again at some time in the future is even scarier.

In many respects, I think even entertaining the idea of being in any type of "power exchange" relationship at our age and stage of life is an unrealistic goal.  Most of us have battle scars from previous relationships that are going to keep us from developing the type of relationship we yearn for anyway.  If we learned our lessons well, the most we will be doing is trying to effect a reasonable facsimile of a trusting and committed relationship... with an eye to keeping one foot firmly planted outside the door.

But some of us are fools and continue to hope. 

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 5:41:37 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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What is there without hope?  I certainly yearn for that wonderful, and in my case, elusive relationship.  If someone great comes along it will be nice.  If he doesn't exist I'll be okay.  It took me years of thought processing to get to the point where I can be "okay" with things are they are. Of course, there is always that glimmer of hope, in the back of my mind, that this person does exist.  I'm just not sure I could do a living-together-no-privacy sort of existence.  Too many years being single, I think.

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
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(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 6:46:33 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


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if his wife has acquired a "shark" for counsel, he/she would find a way to claim a portion of the money of stocks, bonds etc because she can claim some of them were obtained while they're married. he would have to establish proof which part was his before the marriage and which are joinly shared ...especially if he did put her name jointly on them. 

it's a standard legal tactic to manuever around that "what's mine is mine before we got married"

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RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 6:50:48 AM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

What is there without hope? 


I agree, though in some respects, Katy, you do have it easier.  I have found someone with whom that kind of relationship is possible and, while we'll live our lives with that goal in mind, there are limitations we cannot overcome.  Don't get me wrong... I am happier than I've ever been and it does not weigh me down so that I cannot simply enjoy what we have, but no matter what we build together we will always be separate.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 6:55:04 AM   
breatheasone


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This may not be popular, but here goes....I have been married for 24 years...if I was to divorce my husband tomorrow and he had, had say a million dollars BEFORE we got married...would I expect or want half of that now at this point?...YOU BETCHA!  I have been with him OVER half my life....

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RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 6:57:36 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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i was left 8 yrs ago. im still waitng for $140 palimony- tho i did get the appliances,and now am much better off. i dont  miss the fights. oh,when he was moving i took his stapler- i never heard the end of that. i have an electric stapler now. i dont miss not knowing how many were in my bed. it ggot embarrassing. he was quite a gambler.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 7:03:12 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Retirement benefits from jobs worked by one party are now eligible for split to the other party.


As many career military people have found out the hard way.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 7:09:06 AM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
well here is info on Florida:

Property Distribution: Since Florida is an "equitable distribution" state, the marital property shall be divided in an equitable fashion. Equitable does not mean equal, but rather what is fair. The court will encourage the parties to reach a settlement on property and debt issues otherwise the court will declare the property award.

In a proceeding for dissolution of marriage, in addition to all other remedies available to a court to do equity between the parties, or in a proceeding for disposition of assets following a dissolution of marriage by a court which lacked jurisdiction over the absent spouse or lacked jurisdiction to dispose of the assets, the court shall set apart to each spouse that spouse's nonmarital assets and liabilities, and in distributing the marital assets and liabilities between the parties, the court must begin with the premise that the distribution should be equal, unless there is a justification for an unequal distribution based on all relevant factors, including: (a) The contribution to the marriage by each spouse, including contributions to the care and education of the children and services as homemaker. (b) The economic circumstances of the parties. (c) The duration of the marriage. (d) Any interruption of personal careers or educational opportunities of either party. (e) The contribution of one spouse to the personal career or educational opportunity of the other spouse. (f) The desirability of retaining any asset, including an interest in a business, corporation, or professional practice, intact and free from any claim or interference by the other party. (g) The contribution of each spouse to the acquisition, enhancement, and production of income or the improvement of, or the incurring of liabilities to, both the marital assets and the nonmarital assets of the parties. (h) The desirability of retaining the marital home as a residence for any dependent child of the marriage, or any other party, when it would be equitable to do so, it is in the best interest of the child or that party, and it is financially feasible for the parties to maintain the residence until the child is emancipated or until exclusive possession is otherwise terminated by a court of competent jurisdiction. In making this determination, the court shall first determine if it would be in the best interest of the dependent child to remain in the marital home; and, if not, whether other equities would be served by giving any other party exclusive use and possession of the marital home. (i) The intentional dissipation, waste, depletion, or destruction of marital assets after the filing of the petition or within 2 years prior to the filing of the petition. (j) Any other factors necessary to do equity and justice between the parties. (Florida Statutes - Chapters: 61.075 and 61.077)

Spousal Support: Not all cases involve support from one spouse to the other. The obligation of one spouse to support the other financially for a temporary or permanent basis is decided on a case-by-case basis as agreed to by the parties or at the court's discretion.

In a proceeding for dissolution of marriage, the court may grant alimony to either party, which alimony may be rehabilitative or permanent in nature. In any award of alimony, the court may order periodic payments or payments in lump sum or both. The court may consider the adultery of either spouse and the circumstances thereof in determining the amount of alimony, if any, to be awarded.

In determining a proper award of alimony or maintenance, the court shall consider all relevant economic factors, including but not limited to: (a) The standard of living established during the marriage. (b) The duration of the marriage. (c) The age and the physical and emotional condition of each party. (d) The financial resources of each party, the nonmarital and the marital assets and liabilities distributed to each. (e) When applicable, the time necessary for either party to acquire sufficient education or training to enable such party to find appropriate employment. (f) The contribution of each party to the marriage, including, but not limited to, services rendered in homemaking, child care, education, and career building of the other party. (g) All sources of income available to either party. The court may consider any other factor necessary to do equity and justice between the parties.

To the extent necessary to protect an award of alimony, the court may order any party who is ordered to pay alimony to purchase or maintain a life insurance policy or a bond, or to otherwise secure such alimony award with any other assets which may be suitable for that purpose. (Florida Statutes - Chapters: 61.08)


~ so in closing.. dont screw around in Florida on your spouse or you'll be screwed by the court. Seems punitive to me but hey...

Gwyn

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(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 7:12:14 AM   
Gwynvyd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I have a friend up in Massachusetts who's thinking about divorce.
He had $100k before the marriage which was invested in stocks, bonds mutual funds etc.
He thinks he may have to give up half of it in the divorce.
I told him that I don't think so as he had this money for 5-6 years before the marriage.
I told him that I thought anything acquired *in* the marriage would have to be divided as common property but not his investment account. But, I did tell him to talk to a lawyer first before proceeding to divorce.
What say you?


This is the legal website for all the info your buddy will need. It will answer any question they may have on the laws, and what may happen.

I hope this helps.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/gl-208-toc.htm 

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Divorce Question - 10/10/2007 7:33:13 AM   
laurell3


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Honestly your buddy would be better off getting an attorney that knows the local judges and their predilictions than attempting to self-diagnose his own issues or hide assets.
l

(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 40
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