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RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 3:20:40 PM   
Hergirl0824


Posts: 119
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hergirl0824

Being politically correct is a sickness of our time. Give me some good old fashioned labels that say what things truly mean and let me life my life with truth and zeal.



You mean an old fashioned label like kike, which somebody called my daughter a couple of months ago?

Because that's why pc terms came into being, to stop using negative terms like kike, hebe, wop, dago etc. Instead we use value neutral terms that describe without putting down. Terms like Jew, Italian, Hispanic, Asian, Chinese etc.


no i wasn't refering to labels we use to put others down i was refering to the labels we place on ourselves. too many people get hung up on, labels about who they should be instead of who they really are


_____________________________

collared to Mistress Sizzlynn

When i let go of what i am, i become what i might be

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 3:43:38 PM   
probablyknowme


Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline 		As someone who is still trying to figure out her label, this is a very good post for me. (Some might remember my post about submissive versus bottom.) So many good points have been brought up here, that I think that I should address some of them.

In my opinion, the labels that we use in this lifestyle are more of a way to identify ourselves to others, IMO. If I meet someone for the first time, is that person going to know my role better if I say I am a submissive painslut, or if I say I am a consensual, violence receptive, subservient enthusiast? (Besides, I don't have time to explain all of that LOL)

As for politically correct, what about this thing that we do is politically correct? Is it politically correct to be tied up and beat? Or to crawl on hands and knees to someone and beg for use? Come on, if I'm running for office, I don't think any constituents would be impressed, do you? It is all fine and good to be political when you are in the vanilla world, but don't try to impress me with it in TTWD.
 
My mileage,
kat
 
 

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/


(in reply to Hergirl0824)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 3:58:52 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		~fr~ I have a friend who gets off on ageplay but doesn't want to play from shame guilt element.  Because of it....we haven't gone that way. I get off on the rituals and darkness of power play (physical play) but get off on the deep connection and spiritual love too.  But I like the dirtiness and smut of it as much.

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to diphyes)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 5:26:09 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		You asked for general thoughts, so these are the thoughts that I had after reading your post:
 
For me, the words slave and submissive have little emotional significance.  I did not dream about being someone’s slave or of submitting to their will.  If he were to say that I could not use the word slave or submissive to refer to myself again, it would have little emotional impact.  Those words are unimportant.  The interactions between us are what drives and feeds me.  The words only serve to allow people a brief glimpse into who we are. 
 
I think to call myself submissive is very misleading.  I submit within the context of an intimate relationship.  Outside of my intimate relationship I pick and choose who and when to submit.  Most often the choice is based on my own best interests at the time.  It is in my best interest to submit to the immigration officer questioning why I am traveling, etc. 
 
What I desired was to be able to find a relationship where I could freely express my devotion.  In an intimate relationship it isn’t something that I can hold back; it’s an all or nothing kind of thing.  Being restricted in showing my devotion will doom the relationship.  My devotion is most naturally expressed through servitude and obedience.  I am most comfortable when I am given clear, definitive boundaries.  I like the certainty and repetitiveness of rules and protocol.
 
One aspect that caused me to search out this type of relationship was the illusion of rules and protocol.  I say illusion because I have witnessed very few relationships where rules and protocols play a significant part.  For people who know us we are labeled as “High Protocol” (a label that he disagrees with), but we all enjoy having protocols, having the defined boundaries of behavior and etiquette.    
 
The other aspect that drew me was pain.  The small tastes that I had in previous sexual encounters left me wanting and craving more.  Whether that makes me a masochist or not I don’t know and I don’t care.  There are some pains that I hate and they don’t make me feel good.  There are some pains that I enjoy immensely.  There are other things that don’t register as pain for me and are excruciating for others.

I could take or leave the labels; there only purpose is to give a quick surface snapshot of who I am to other people.  I don't need the labels for me to enjoy what I do or to know who I am.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 6:43:30 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		Great thread MR - it has made interesting reading
 
i think you are right about the romantizing of things and changing labels to more socially paletable terms even within WIIWD. i am almost at the point of no label, personally...i do not fit anyones labels...
 
i just am and nothing more~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 7:18:08 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you all who have contributed to the thread (even the ones who took this off into some tangent of their own design).

I appreciate the responses.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 10:53:25 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Thank you all who have contributed to the thread (even the ones who took this off into some tangent of their own design).

I appreciate the responses.


I'll admit I was one of the guilty parties for taking it off into a tangent.   However, my comments about the "Decline of Collarme" that got started apply really well.   It was started by somebody who was into Daddy/daughter dynamics, she basically attempted to participate in a thread on this very topic.  However, there was a lot of smart ass and hurtful remarks being tossed around.  People pulling out and using the big "Pedaphile" label for it.   At times "Daddy Doms" are viewed as being just "Pedephiles"... Even "Age play" gets the same treatment.   People get so wrapped up in the labels around the neck.  Judgements are made.   Labels can can magically be transformed into weapons of humilation.   Some people think and speak low of "slaves", while for some a "slave" is something prized and treasured.    Some people speak of Submissives as wanna be slaves.   People have issues with either Partial or Total Power Exchange.   No matter what label one has for themselves, The labels for the activity, this is some stigma or shame cast upon them.  Due to some stereotyping.

I'm a Dom with a Maso side, I've had a few people attempt to make me feel ashamed of my Maso side.  As if it was in conflict with being a Dom.   Ignorance does run wild at times.   I also Enjoy AGE PLAY.  So at times, it does make me feel a little hot under the collar that be lumped into being a "Pedaphile".  Times when I see a right and left wing in BDSM itself.  All of these things I am not ashamed of, however there are those that perhaps feel I should feel shame for these things.

I supposed it would be safer for me to say I'm into "Role Playing" and not mention the type of role playing I'm into.  I'm also into doing "Rape Scenes", Oh lord.  Why don't somebody just pick up some rock and throw them at me the next time I'm walking down the side walk.   I could simply say I'm into "Kinky Sex" rather than say "BDSM".  When I feeling out somebody vanilla,  I speak in those terms.   Say "Kinky Sex", "Ass spanking Sex".. hell even might say I'm into role playing.  See what the reaction is.   However, on a BDSM website with an online community.. why should one need to skirt around things?

The only time I feel somewhat ashamed of is when, I've been talking with somebody I really really really like, and then a Label comes into play and the get all Squicked out on me, and run without talking about it.   Now, that's just a temporary let down, but that's life at times.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/9/2007 12:20:31 AM   
slave4Darby3d


Posts: 106
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I found more shame and guilt in not living who i truly am, in not sharing my deepest self.

Labels, schmabels.  Yes, sometimes i think about what a particular desire may "mean".  But, I am not into dissecting the mental behind the motive.  As long as it is consensual, between legal adults, lead on.

I feel no guilt in my lust and loathing of pain.  I feel no shame in my desire to serve totally my man.  I feel no need to hide my unabashed enjoyment of sexual pleasure.  I feel no need to restrict my expression of my true self.  I hurt noone in this life.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/9/2007 3:19:42 AM   
SixFootMaster


Posts: 829
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgirl85

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgirl85

I get out to even the thought of being made to cry, being "daddys little girl", and being "raped" .... I am a submissive, I am a pain slut. I love the pain just as much as I hate it. Part of the eroticism to me is the words. When my Dom says "everyone can see your head bobbing up and down, everyone knows what a little slut you are" makes giving him head in an empty parking lot in broad day light adjacant to a busy road all the more exciting. Hearing a person say "Daddys going to make you feel good" makes me wet. It is who I am. Do I go up to gramma and say hey gram, i like it when my boyfriend makes me cry because hes pretending to be my daddy raping me? no. But im not to softening the idea of what it is that I like to the people with similar kinks. Or some of my more understanding openminded friends.

and I agree with Irish Mist (btw thats great mixed with coke a cola) nice post. I dont know if thats what you wanted, but its what youre getting.


*two thumbs up*


thank you. *curtsies*


Damn, I expected you to ask where the two thumbs went up!

(in reply to goodgirl85)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/9/2007 4:57:18 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		ok tongue out of cheek, my serious reply to this topic....

with the definition of guilt being "i did something wrong" and shame being "i am something wrong"....i have a problem with the indication that any of the labels i choose to apply to myself insinuate that i did or am doing something wrong or that i was or i am something wrong....on the contrary, i know for a fact that the labels i choose to call myself are true and good and there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing things that apply under them and nothing wrong with being them...so why would i change them?

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 10/9/2007 4:58:28 AM >

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to SixFootMaster)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/9/2007 5:57:28 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

So anyone else out there like me who just flat out gets off on the thoughts and ideas of doing "bad things"?




I like having "bad things" done to me.

But my arousal at the fantasy doesn't change the fact that, in reality, nothing bad is actually happening to me. It's somewhat like being on a roller-coaster. I may be genuinely afraid, but it's in a safe, controlled enviroment where things are unlikely to go wrong. The difference between what Valyraen does to me, the "bad things" and actually bad things is considerable and can not be overlooked.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/9/2007 6:43:18 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...So anyone else out there like me who just flat out gets off on the thoughts and ideas of doing "bad things"?

Any confessions or any general thoughts would be appreciated...



Yes, MadRabbit, this slave is guilty of getting off on the thoughts, the ideas and the actual doings of "bad" things...however, someone ELSE has come along and labelled them "bad", e.g. what most folk would consider embarrassing/humiliating/degrading, this slave would consider pleasing to Master/a turn-on/please-may-we-do-that-some-more kind of stuff...included in that are the terms of endearment that speak to the service this slave provides to Master.
 
It might LOOK or FEEL degrading to someone else to be urinated on and referred to as "toilet", or told to "be quiet or end up with a ball gag in your mouth" but, for this slave, nuances like that are warm and fuzzy.
 
a couple of years ago, Master assigned this slave the task of researching alternatives for the word "slave", and came across some perspectives she hadn't thought of in the responses on the thread...here's the link if you are interested:
 
 
 

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/9/2007 11:46:25 AM   
salilus


Posts: 201
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline 		Daddy and I enjoy that what we do is just plain wrong sometimes. It's part of what we get off on. He's mean and nasty and treats his little girl as though she is just a vessel for his pleasure; just a whore for the pain he has to lay on her. I dress like a little girl and being raped and beaten in a white cotton nightgown while I sob and cry and beg is wrong. It's very, very wrong. But it pleases Daddy and we both get off on it.

When I talk about these things, I do it in a place where I believe it's generally accepted.

If I have to mince words and be politically correct about it, then I'm at work.

< Message edited by salilus -- 10/9/2007 11:47:47 AM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 53
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