RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt.

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RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 8:32:24 PM

Masochist444

Posts: 24
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

I just love this issue and question. I have found that the community has changed so much in the past 20 years. We used to try to be understanding of each others kinks. Now I find that everyone feels that they have the only path that is worth having. It is so frustrating to me. I tend to have to explain myself over and over again. The lack of BDSM education through workshops, community involvement and just plain respect seems to be lacking is a larger degree now. And that is what we are talking about here. Basically, it would be great if we could respect each others kinks. Even if that is not the way I do something, I have respect for my friends way of living. I do what I call 'play only'. I never call it 'casual play'. I find that the people who do that are attaching a value to the slavery, TPE, 24/7 exchange that somehow makes that preferable to anything else. I have even read here on CM the phrase 'I do not play, this is my life'. Again, it is offensive.

The other offensive language that really tends to upset me is when anyone calls a submissive a 'subbie'. I always say...do you want to be called a massie, toppie or a dommie? It is completly disrespectful and rude to call a bottom or submissive a 'subbie'.

I also have talked to people about not calling what we do 'torture' and 'abuse'. I actually refered a woman to the local community for more education when she could not stop calling it abuse.

Recently a man who bottoms to a friend of mine came up to me at a social and he started asking me questions about the way I choose to play. He then asked me 'what happened to make the wires inside of you cross and make you this way?' It was so rude and insulting. He just did not get that he was adding a value to what he does and not to what I do.

I tend to tell people that we attach values to different words. We describe what we do with words and they are very important in how we see what we do and how we feel about what we do. If we are negitive in how we speak about our lives and choices or if we are belittling by the choice of words, then we destroy our own self image. I have been talking to a man who refuses to call what we do playing. He calls it art. I like that and may start using that term instead.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 21

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 8:32:42 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Take the "Do we romanticize slavery?" thread. Maybe "consensual erotic servitude" is a better descriptor for M/S then "slavery". However, it doesn't do my desires and fantasies any justice. I fantasize about Owning another person. Owning a slave. I find that to be incredibly hot. Just because the label is different doesn't change what I get off on in my own mind.

exactly, MadRabbit. I fantasized about being owned and now I am. Identifying as a slave owned by a Master is very hot. Whether we use those exact words or not does not change a thing. In our minds, that would still be what we are. Using the terms "Master" and "slave" in no way condones nonconsensual slavery. It simply perfectly sums up our dynamic. As you touched upon, someone somewhere is always going to be bothered by something someone else is or is not doing. Screw 'em

...............luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 10/7/2007 8:33:10 PM >

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 22

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 8:36:46 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

A lot of people in the scene get off on doing "dark/dirty/naughty" things. They often find that the thing being generally considered "dark/dirty/naughty" is a direct part of WHY they like it, and they often find that being given permission to enjoy something "dark/dirty/naughty" frees them enough to go forward with it.

I'm not one of those people- at least not since I realized I really could enjoy a rape scene without it being actual rape.

But names and labels have power. I might disagree with the power than some people give to words, but then I don't see anything less than honorable about being a whore and a "stand and modeler" and yet both of those terms are considered yucky in general by bdsm culture. I think "bitch" is a general ugly word and don't use it- and yet others find it liberating and empowering to use.

I'm ok with people choosing the language that works best for them, and I think intention and education goes a long way towards so. The people on those threads who explained their dislike of certain words also do NOT come onto every thread saying "Ew, don't use that!" They do what works for them, they understand what works for others, and keep it where it's relevant. If anything, that makes me admire their thoughtfulness even more- certainly more than the ones who need to keep a kink "dark" and based on external perception in order to enjoy it rather than just taking their own internal pleasure.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to diphyes)

Post #: 23

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 8:39:58 PM

Alecto

Posts: 8
Joined: 1/20/2007
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I'm certainly one who entertains evil thoughts (most of which I'd never put into practice). The key here is consensuality. You may fantasize about whatever rocks your foundation, but as long as you carry out your fantasies with someone who is willing (and eager) to indulge you, there's no harm done.
On the subject of shame, I've met quite a few femme dommes who were sexually abused as children; their desire to be sexually dominant, to "control" men and inflict pain on them, stems from their feelings of powerlessness and shame. It's similar to "the abused becomes the abuser" phenomenon except for the fact that it's consensual "play," of course. The irony is that most of these women chose to marry "powerful" men (by which I mean aggressively ambitious, successful leader-types) who don't have any interest in being dominated sexually, so the femme dommes seek out submissive men for sexual gratification, all the while being "dominated" in other areas of their life by their partner/husband. Yet these women still consider (and label) themselves dommes.
I suppose the point is that some of us choose labels to make ourselves feel better about who we are and what we're doing. If self-knowledge is one's goal, however, I think one has to confront these labels and figure out what their purpose is in one's life. If they're meant to disguise an ugly truth, maybe it's time to throw them away.

_____________________________

"I've always known I was meant to dominate your sex and avenge my own." -- Marquise de Merteuil

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 24

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 8:44:33 PM

wewantaslave

Posts: 32
Status: offline

I can say long drawn out phrases makes me say, what? Keeping it simple and sexy has worked this long, I prefer the labels.

(in reply to Alecto)

Post #: 25

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 9:07:34 PM

Hergirl0824

Posts: 119
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline

Throughout history labels have always had power, both good and bad. I believe it was George Carlton who talked about the labels that society today had weakended so that we can all be spared it "shock value" ie.during WW1 the term was shellshock and now we have post-tramatic stress disorder. Being politically correct is a sickness of our time. Give me some good old fashioned labels that say what things truly mean and let me life my life with truth and zeal.

Each person uses the label that they are comfortable with and while i may not like the label they use i should at least be able to understand that it woirks for them. the old "live and let live" attitude.

_____________________________

collared to Mistress Sizzlynn

When i let go of what i am, i become what i might be

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 26

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 9:13:21 PM

diphyes

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/5/2007
From: Room 302
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecto
I suppose the point is that some of us choose labels to make ourselves feel better about who we are and what we're doing. If self-knowledge is one's goal, however, I think one has to confront these labels and figure out what their purpose is in one's life. If they're meant to disguise an ugly truth, maybe it's time to throw them away.

Bravo. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I think the reaction as such - seeking similar types of lovers to replace the perpetrators of trauma early-on - is ... unfortunate, and more often than not, a sign of self-sabotage that goes much deeper. Guess it all boils down to accepting oneself no matter the details, and not letting what you find there hurt anyone who doesn't want the pain. But that's the basic rule to which we can reduce anything in this particular world.

Sometimes I think calm and balanced introspection is the answer to everything.
Then I remember, whoops, herpes. Okay. Most everything.

_____________________________

Many are the wand bearers;
I bear with me no sign;
Yet, I was mad, was drunken,
Ere yet I tasted wine;
Nor bleeding grape can slacken
The thirst wherewith I pine;
And the god, the true Iacchus,
Hears now this song of mine. - Edith Thomas

(in reply to Alecto)

Post #: 27

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 9:21:51 PM

lighthearted

Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline

so this is what came to me when thinking about labels...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I wonder sometimes if the endless debating over labels and words is used as a way to avoid dealing with personal shame and guilt.

no...not for me, at least. a label is a word to help someone else understand me. I refuse to let another's perception have any power over how I view myself, especially when it comes to my sexuality, just because their perception is too limited to understand. for example, oftentimes women are called "whores" for being open about enjoying sex. it's a label meant to shame them. do I really feel shame and guilt because I like to fuck? nope, no way. do I feel shame because someone who can't understand this concept calls me a whore? again, no.

quote:

So anyone else out there like me who just flat out gets off on the thoughts and ideas of doing "bad things"?

yep...and what about it makes me hot? I think it's because again, I haven't handed over the power to the labeller to define the way I feel, as in, "I have the (nerve, drive, desire, balls, whatever) to acknowledge what makes me hot, and it probably makes you hot too...but I have the (nerve, drive, desire, balls) to do something about it."

_____________________________

"Thou art to me a delicious torment." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 28

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 10:23:41 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

Hell of a good post here...

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to lighthearted)

Post #: 29

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 10:59:16 PM

LDRandAstarte

Posts: 504
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masochist444
The other offensive language that really tends to upset me is when anyone calls a submissive a 'subbie'. I always say...do you want to be called a massie, toppie or a dommie? It is completly disrespectful and rude to call a bottom or submissive a 'subbie'.

Did it never cross your mind that in some peoples little corner of the universe that might be exactly the point, Sparky?
Can you say degredation?

< Message edited by LDRandAstarte -- 10/7/2007 11:01:31 PM >

_____________________________

When I die, I want to go like my grandpa who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like the other three passengers in his car.

(in reply to Masochist444)

Post #: 30

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/7/2007 11:39:18 PM

chiaThePet

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

A lot of people in the scene get off on doing "dark/dirty/naughty" things. They often find that the thing being generally considered "dark/dirty/naughty" is a direct part of WHY they like it, and they often find that being given permission to enjoy something "dark/dirty/naughty" frees them enough to go forward with it.

I'm not one of those people- at least not since I realized I really could enjoy a rape scene without it being actual rape.

But names and labels have power. I might disagree with the power than some people give to words, but then I don't see anything less than honorable about being a whore and a "stand and modeler" and yet both of those terms are considered yucky in general by bdsm culture. I think "bitch" is a general ugly word and don't use it- and yet others find it liberating and empowering to use.

I'm ok with people choosing the language that works best for them, and I think intention and education goes a long way towards so. The people on those threads who explained their dislike of certain words also do NOT come onto every thread saying "Ew, don't use that!" They do what works for them, they understand what works for others, and keep it where it's relevant. If anything, that makes me admire their thoughtfulness even more- certainly more than the ones who need to keep a kink "dark" and based on external perception in order to enjoy it rather than just taking their own internal pleasure.

For myself, I find the term "dark" refers to the side of the spectrum which is not
generally found in behaviors most likely practiced or enjoyed within the majority
of the masses. It is simply a term I find comfortable in using when speaking of
the specific desires I enjoy, the desires i realize tend to bend the acceptability
of that which may be considered "the norm" to the world at large. I act on these
desires, not because I find them nasty or dirty, or because somewhere along
the line someone "gave" me permission, I act on them because each and every
one of them is an intricate design of my submissive core, wheresoever and
howsoever they became ingrained within me.

I embrace "dark" as beautiful in relation to my desires, but of course, that is
my perception, a perception that though what I embrace may not be for the
populace at large, I find magnificent fullfilment in such. I don't enjoy my
pleasures more "because" of external perceptions, "in spite" of maybe, but
not because of. I use a term of language I identify with, as I perceive it,
and it works for me, regardless of anyone's approval or admiration.

Take the term "rape" for example, some perceive that the use of such, and the
implied act of such is acceptable with the understanding that such is not actually
occuring. But the word "rape" itself will hold untold horrific meaning to others
whose perception does not reflect those engaged in "play". They may simply
allow such in the context of keeping it relevant as it works for others, avoiding
tripping all over themselves as they exalt their perceptions over another's.

Words, perceptions, we are all afforded our own, outside of the box.

chia* (the pet)

< Message edited by chiaThePet -- 10/8/2007 12:18:52 AM >

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 31

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 3:08:04 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

Our power in this often comes from owning our feelings, and acting on them. Finding the acceptance in another person is what makes that so intimate. Do you really need labels for that, or is the label merely the handle we use to get a firm grasp on a thing?

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to chiaThePet)

Post #: 32

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 3:16:56 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

For me, MadRabbit, i have no problem with the labels i use to describe myself. my labels are based not on fantasies but, on my what i have enjoyed experiencing and living for most of my adult life. There isn't an ounce of shame or guilt associated with either my labels or the way i live my life.

i am a happy and unashamed sexual masochist, not into 'consensual pain play'. The pain that i get off on isn't playful, it hurts and it leaves me marked for days afterward, to the point that anyone else seeing the raised welts, black & blue bruises, and bite marks would think i was being abused and, by the definition of most, i am. But, for me and the men i have been 'abused' by, the difference between what i experience and what is experienced in an abusive relationship, is the ATTITUDE behind the ACTION. The abuse i receive is for the Pleasure Effect and not done out of anger or rage.

i don't really care if others have a problem with me using the label of "slave". It's what my Master considers me to be to Him and it's how i look at myself that matters to me. He took Ownership of me when He named me and put His collar on me and set the rules and requirements for me to live by and He decided that i was to be His slave for life and that's what i am. Besides, it's a whole lot easier to write and say than, "consensual erotic servitude", which could be used to describe what my type of slavery is but, i wouldn't use it as a label. i like being called "slave", especially by my Master, who is a wonderful sadist, without shame or guilt. He cares for me very much and enjoys giving me the brutal pleasure i enjoy so much. i beg Him to hit me and slap me and whip me and mark me up good. He chooses when and how He will give me what i need and i gratefully and happily accept whatever He dishes out.

If others have problems with the terms "slave", "sadist" or, anything else, then they might want to choose different labels. Whatever a person chooses to label themself with, is a personal matter, i think, just like whatever screen name a person chooses for themself. i'm not real imaginative when it comes to labeling myself. i choose screen names based on who i am -- slave, girl, joy. i choose descriptive labels based on who i am -- slave, Owned property, masochist. i don't choose labels for myself based on the opinions or definitions of others. Hopefully, everyone chooses their own labels based on how they view themself and define their life.

(shamelessly) slave joy
Owned property of Master David
_____________________________________________________________________

"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change,

the courage to change the things I can,

and the..........patience and tolerance to let others be themselves."

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Whats wrong with just liking it? Perhaps admitting that we do, in fact, get off on bad things in our minds, but have no problem with it because we know the things that we are actually doing are not bad? (These questions are rhetorical)

So anyone else out there like me who just flat out gets off on the thoughts and ideas of doing "bad things"?

Any confessions or any general thoughts would be appreciated.

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 10/8/2007 3:31:28 AM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 33

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 5:40:36 AM

Smythe

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masochist444
The other offensive language that really tends to upset me is when anyone calls a submissive a 'subbie'. I always say...do you want to be called a massie, toppie or a dommie? It is completly disrespectful and rude to call a bottom or submissive a 'subbie'.

Did it never cross your mind that in some peoples little corner of the universe that might be exactly the point, Sparky?
Can you say degredation?

Can you spell it?
Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 34

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 6:19:56 AM

Owner4SexSlave

Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

MadRabbit,

This is one of the things I've become rather disillusioned with on the Message Boards and even Non Message board users. Is that people tend to get a little carried away with the labels hanging around thier neck or others.

To the point of who is a bigger better Dom, Master, Submissive or Slave. First and foremost we are all human.   Think many people tend to forget this for the sake of getting wrapped in in some label.   They tend to forget that we all live or do the things we do because "we want to" or otherwise find compelled to do this.  Be it we feel it is a "need" or "want".   This varies from person to person.

What is right for somebody else may not be right for another person.

The Majority of the posts here are either general relationship issues or issue with pissing matches over labels. Problems were a label just ain't cutting it, because of some "Stereotype".   People are busy trying to figure out what is the BEST or Standard Jello mold for their own labels or the people they are dealing with.

In terms of some of my relationships, I have been a "Master" to slave, or reduced (laughing) to being just a mere Dom (not a Master) in a D/s relationship with Partial Power Exchange.   Also a Dom Switch (switch in terms of top/bottom) in a Dom Couple relationship.   I'm a Dom with a Maso side, I view recieving pain like many enjoy a Back or Body massage at times. This by no mean indicates I'm submissive nor that I'm incapable of being a Master in a M/s relationship.

My point is, that my role or label has varied slightly based on the "Relationship" I was in at the time.   You know where it takes two people to make the "relationship" work.   The truth is it's about how two people fit and mess together.

I started doing BDSM things when I was 13 years old, with "The Girl Next Door" which was one of my "Best Friends". To this day I refuse to hang a label on her though looking back she was "submissive".   However, if I had treasted her like I owned her ass literally, we would have never done the things we did.   Why? Becaue there was "Communication, Trust, Caring, Respect, Openess" shared between us.   She had the freedom to give me power over her when we played, and even D/s in our friendship. As much as she gave is what I took, some days when she was not up for giving.. we'd fall back to simply being Equals.  (hindsight when I reflect).   What my point I'm making here is that I knew very little about the lifestyle at the time.   Just did what worked with others.

I did not become concious of the "lifestyle" itself until I was around 17 years old, when I found myself stranded one night in a city about 40 miles from home. I ended up a friends house who I played AD&D (Dungeons & Dragons) with at times. She was involved in the lifestyle (I did not know it), anyways her and her friend and I all had been drinking wine and etc.. The subject of kink came up, I said I was into it. Anyways, they asked what I was (label).. I drew a blank look upon my face.   I had been playing for 4-5 years without a label or using labels. For a while they asked me questions and debating between themselves what I was, Dom or Switch. Mainly cause of my Maso side added confusion. However, Wala I become Dom Label consious that night and there by Dubbed that by a Pair of Submissives in the "lifestyle", They enlighten me for a few hours sharing what and what the "lifestyle" was about.

Basically the BDSM lifestyle fits me and who I am, I did not try to Squeeze into it, nor attempt to live up to any preconcieved Label or Stereotype. Dom simply best fits me as a label.

I have a bitch about those people, who's labels gets in the way of being a Human being though. For some people only a Master can release a Slave, and that might work for them and in the relationships they have had.   However, some people can become very Judgement of others. Where a slave decided to up and walk away from a Master without being released.   They have their heads so far shoved up their ass and their label, that they forget we are all simply "Human" and people are in this lifestyle because of "Free will", they enter into relationships out of "Free will" as well.

BDSM relationships are still relationships, people seem to fail to understand this basic concept.   In fact dare I express this, most of the thread started are mere relationship issues that don't have much to do with BDSM itself, The problem exists with the Stereotyped Labels or Jello Molds people have in their mind.

Some people take themselves and their roles too seriously for their own good at times, that it interfers and clogs up what it means to be in a relationship itself.

Speaking of Labels, this username (owner4sexslave), is rather extreme. However, I had killed my primary account (whiplashsmile), and I had killed this account on the otherside as well.

I really don't know if people like, love or darn right hate me for 1/2 of my long winded postings on a variety of subjects.   I feel I have learned and grown with interacting with people on here.   I learned a few things, and it opened my mind up some.   I know I have helped a few people as well.   Perhaps stepped on a few toes now and again.   There have been times when I had a misconception and others have enlightened me.   That's what it's all about using a forum such as this.

I have always had the greatest respect for you Madrabbit and your posts, and others was well.   However, there are those judgemental people that like to beat up on newbies or don't take the time to think and only react to posts.

Somebody started a thread called "The Decline of Collarme", basically I felt and thought it was somewhat legit. Because people tend to get to wrapped in playing Comedian, slaming other people for the sake of a laugh, or slamming another person to make them look like they are a bigger better (Label).   Who's the bigger Better slave, sub, Dom or Master.

There's not wrong with Romantic ideas at times, Hell even "White Knights"... At least those that are in the Game of Playing "White Knight" actually learn and experience a lot of things that those who Avoid it.   We all have out own paths in life, each unique set of experiences, problems, issues, hang ups.

All of us have flaws, strengths and weaknesses. We are all human beings regardless of how much a bigger better label we think we are compared to others.

Personally, there have been slaves that have up and left thier Masters where I totally respected them for it. Why? Because they showed they used their brain and mind. Used common sense to what to do.   We do what we do because "We want to", we enter into BDSM relationships of our own Free will.   If somebody has been mislead by another person to get into a relationship, and they find out there were, so what if they leave.   Who the fuck are any of us to Judge other people so harhlessly over the sake of some Label.    When did labels become more important over being a human being?

- Chaz aka "whiplashsmile"

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 35

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 6:37:16 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masochist444
The other offensive language that really tends to upset me is when anyone calls a submissive a 'subbie'. I always say...do you want to be called a massie, toppie or a dommie? It is completly disrespectful and rude to call a bottom or submissive a 'subbie'.

Did it never cross your mind that in some peoples little corner of the universe that might be exactly the point, Sparky?
Can you say degredation?

Can you spell it?
Smythe

ooo one letter off....that was catty...the idea was gotten across...

so Massochist444, do you say "Domme"? because i find that word incredibly stupid....if we're getting hung up on insulting shortened labels...its a psuedo-french bastardization...there is no distinction between male and female sub's...why should there have to be a distinction beween male and female Doms...because when i say Dom everyone assumes i am talking about a guy...because someone thought it was cute 10 or 15 years ago to say Domme (how the fuck do you pronounce that by the way...is it Dom-may or Dom-my [like mommy with a d])

anyway....since they long ago took away my label maker (apparently you can't label the dog "DOG") i have a sharpie marker to write in my labels on my cage when i find a new label that fits....its a purple clickie sharpie...

chelle..the leather-sadomasochist-subbie-girly-bi-gilfrinated-servant-switcherific-kitty, just for today, anyway....

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Smythe)

Post #: 36

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 6:43:19 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
Using the terms "Master" and "slave" in no way condones nonconsensual slavery. It simply perfectly sums up our dynamic. As you touched upon, someone somewhere is always going to be bothered by something someone else is or is not doing. Screw 'em...............luci

I agree with this, and just want to add, the only time I felt shame or awkwardness about using the terms that define me is when I was not yet comfortable with who I am. Once I accepted and embraced who and what I am and learned to be true to myself, labeling myself accurately became a non-issue.

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 37

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 3:11:54 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hergirl0824

Being politically correct is a sickness of our time. Give me some good old fashioned labels that say what things truly mean and let me life my life with truth and zeal.

You mean an old fashioned label like kike, which somebody called my daughter a couple of months ago?

Because that's why pc terms came into being, to stop using negative terms like kike, hebe, wop, dago etc. Instead we use value neutral terms that describe without putting down. Terms like Jew, Italian, Hispanic, Asian, Chinese etc.

(in reply to Hergirl0824)

Post #: 38

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 3:17:46 PM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masochist444
The other offensive language that really tends to upset me is when anyone calls a submissive a 'subbie'. I always say...do you want to be called a massie, toppie or a dommie? It is completly disrespectful and rude to call a bottom or submissive a 'subbie'.

Did it never cross your mind that in some peoples little corner of the universe that might be exactly the point, Sparky?
Can you say degredation?

In my insane corner of the world, I go there with people I know want to go there. And I way prefer "cunt" to "subbie" if I'm gonna bother. Until I know otherwise, I don't slap infantilizing and annoying names on people I don't even know.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 10/8/2007 3:19:03 PM >

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 39

RE: Change the Label, Avoid the Shame/Guilt. - 10/8/2007 3:20:20 PM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hergirl0824

Being politically correct is a sickness of our time. Give me some good old fashioned labels that say what things truly mean and let me life my life with truth and zeal.

You mean an old fashioned label like kike, which somebody called my daughter a couple of months ago?

Because that's why pc terms came into being, to stop using negative terms like kike, hebe, wop, dago etc. Instead we use value neutral terms that describe without putting down. Terms like Jew, Italian, Hispanic, Asian, Chinese etc.

Yeah, isn't it terrible that someone else's comfort zone wherin you get to feel like a human might inconvenience someone else?

That said, I personally pick the less watered down of the terms regarding sexuality. I like "queer" and "pervert" for their oppositional ring.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 10/8/2007 3:24:07 PM >

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 40

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