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Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 8:33:08 AM

SugarMyChurro

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"Bloodied 70-year-old woman cuffed for having a brown lawn"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/19/lawn.dispute.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

She was arrested July 6 after failing to give her name to a police officer who visited her home.

During a struggle, Perry fell and injured her nose. She spent more than an hour in a holding cell before police released her.

"I ask the citizens of Orem: How many of you would like to have your great-grandmother taken from her home with bruises and blood and placed in handcuffs for failing to water her lawn?" attorney Gloria Allred said.

"Let's bring sanity back to law enforcement," she said.

-----

Another stop and identify situation with police going from simple questions to explosive violence in nanoseconds. Go see the photo of the woman in question - she's the old lady living next door to you. I expect she's as dangerous as a knitted afghan.

What the fuck has happened to our country?

Post #: 1

RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 8:36:21 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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"What the fuck has happened to our country? "

I blame Daryl Gates, and all his supporters, myself...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 2

RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 8:38:15 AM

SugarMyChurro

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This took place in OREM, Utah.

But I still take your meaning.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 3

RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 8:43:11 AM

mnottertail

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Well, we are hardly likely to blame Brigham Young, are we?

Jos. P. Smith

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 9:33:59 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

A state investigation found that Officer James Flygare acted properly in arresting Perry after trying to get her to cooperate.

Hopefully sanity will extend beyond th LE Dept.

Since when is a brown lawn a misdemeanor? i thought this was america where we had the right to "own" property. Apparently we just rent it from the city.

"Democracy" in action! At its finest!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 10:09:24 AM

sundownhawk

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Joined: 8/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Another stop and identify situation with police going from simple questions to explosive violence in nanoseconds. Go see the photo of the woman in question - she's the old lady living next door to you. I expect she's as dangerous as a knitted afghan.

O.K. whatever law they have there about brown lawns seems utterly ridiculous, that aside it is a law that it appears she broke. That being said, you are wrong, this is not a case of "stop and identify" and was a criminal investigation at that point. Her failure to cooperate is what is called obstructing, another criminal offense. Though the details are sketchy it seems at that point the officers intent was to arrest her for those offenses and she resisted. Now if that was your spouse, significant other or anyone you cared about making the arrest would you expect them to allow harm to be done to them because of her age? In November of this year Atlanta police had to shoot a 92 year old woman after she shot three police officers serving a search warrant on her home. I have yet to see video of this incident and until I do I reserve judgment. The story states she fell during a struggle, not while she was having her ass kicked by a gang of out of control officers. Perhaps you were there as a witness to this "explosive violence"?
If this was my grandmother, yes I would sure as hell want to know the facts of the incident and make sure that officers acted appropriately. Even though I may be mad about it, I at least would not prejudge them with what appears to be extreme prejudice as so many seem willing to do.

< Message edited by sundownhawk -- 9/19/2007 10:10:48 AM >

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 10:13:27 AM

luckydog1

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nothing in the story indicates "explosive violence in nonoseconds", just making stuff up again Sugar?

(in reply to sundownhawk)

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 10:33:52 AM

Archer

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Lets see if I'm taking an eldely woman by the arm in order to place her into custody and she jerks her arm out of my hands, taking into account that she is elderly and possibly lacks the ballancing skills she used to have. is it infeasible to believe that could have caused a fall? Lacking evidence to the contrary I'll wait for the report, and case to conclude before I start blaming the cops. Does it warrant checking into sure, but lets not start the tar boiling or plucking the chickens until the facts are in.

The Atlanta Case mentioned above has resulted in the Cops being suspended and some of them subsequently arrested and convicted as well as a complete replacement of the entire Narcotics Squad in the department.

(in reply to luckydog1)

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 10:52:59 AM

petdave

Posts: 2479
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The underlying problem is too many chickenshit laws.
Everybody pisses and moans. Oh, my property values! Oh, my delicate moral constitution! Oh, won't somebody PLEASE think of the children??

What they don't think about is the fact that at the end of the day, each and every law on the books depends on the power of the state to kill with impunity.

Oh, well we should just fine them for that.
Okay, well what if they don't pay the fine?
The fine gets bigger.
If they don't pay THAT?
We take their property. Or we send them to jail.
And if they refuse to leave?
Well, they have to leave! The police will take them.
And if they defend themselves?
Then they'll have to escalate.
And if THEY escalate?
Well, that's just foolish! Why would they do that? It's just a fine!
And if they escalate? Would you, sitting there writing your fucking letters to City Hall bitching about your neighbor's lawn, would you walk up to the man next door and shoot him in the face because he had a sick kid to take care of and didn't get the time to edge his lawn last week? Would you pull the trigger and feel the blood spray on your chest and wipe the muzzle on his shirt so that the barrel doesn't rust?
No? Then mind your own fucking business. Go read a book. Try to pick one without relying on goddamned Oprah.

But people don't think that way... so we get what we have here today.

And then they bitch about that.

/rant

(in reply to Archer)

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 11:31:49 AM

FGB

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Simply and eloquently put Archer, nice one

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Post #: 10

RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 11:48:08 AM

HaveRopeWillBind

Posts: 514
Joined: 7/15/2006
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Part of the problem with Police today is that they spend a lot of their working day on edge wondering if the next person they speak to is going to pull a gun and blow them away. Even a 70 year old lady can pull a half ounce trigger, and police can never be sure who is armed and who isn't.

I was once questioned as I was taking photos of airplanes from off the airport property but near the Detroit Metro Airport. (It's a hobby, similar to Train Spotting.) The officer was a younger airport patrolman and since I was already standing outside my car I began to walk toward him holding the camera (a small digital that could not be confused with a weapon) in front of me in a non-threatening way and trying to explain that I was simply taking photographs for personal enjoyment. He was actually afraid of me and backed around behind his car ready to pull his weapon before I realized what his mindset was. I simply stopped and set the camera down. Once he no longer felt threatened he became somewhat belligerent, though I suspect this was either from nervous adrenaline or to cover the fact that he had shown fear on duty. I had to stay especially calm until he calmed himself a bit or it could have become a problem situation simply because he was so keyed up. In the end it was all resolved without a problem, but if I had reacted to his edge it could have been entirely different. It's possible that even a little old lady could trigger that sort of bad reaction simply by being resistive.

(in reply to petdave)

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 11:59:22 AM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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Amadou Diallo was murdered by 4 cops, as he tried to give ( What he thought were muggers ) his wallet.

If THOSE cops had any honor, they would have committed suicide out of the grief of murdering an innocent bystander.

But, of course, they have no honor.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 12:17:55 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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as stupid as the world is- best to just co-operate w the cops. when i was arrested- i made it clear i had 4 herniated disks and no record. - therefor they handcuffed me in teh front-as apposed to the back. it was so embarrassing. anyhow- why ask for trouble...

(in reply to farglebargle)

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 12:27:42 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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I`m w/ Archer.Wait....

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 1:14:29 PM

subtee

Posts: 5133
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quote:

Police = subhuman?

Heyyyyyyy! I'm a "subhuman..."

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 15

RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 1:45:02 PM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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I take the story as given for now. Right now, both the underlying offense and the way it was handled are basically bullshit. And it is a stop and identify because she refused to name herself - it's part of the overall story. I am not saying she handled it well, I am just saying that there must be a better way to handle these kind of regulatory offenses. I mean, this is a crime that has no victim until they start putting cuffs on some old lady.

Who is the damaged party just because the woman's lawn is brown? Oh the humanity...!

As usual, many of you side with the asshole with a badge for whatever reason. Frankly, I could care less how afraid the cops are on the streets - that's the job. Don't like it, don't take it. I can't even recall the last time an interaction with the police yielded a positive result of any kind. I find them wholly ineffective at doing anything more complicated than dispensing tickets for pretended offenses in order to collect revenue for the city. Of interest to me is how often they have to lie to create defendants instead of going after the people I see breaking various laws every day.

FWIW, I don't have some huge cause for bitterness against the police except that one way and another I hear about things from reliable sources. I now know enough to assert that most police people are boneheaded thugs with a badge. Police people regularly commit the exact same kinds of crimes as everyone else all the time - except that they can get away with routine drunkenness, drug use and petty theft because fellow officers will tend not to arrest them. And that's on their own time. On the clock they commit crimes on behalf of the corporate city with absolute impunity.

The idea that people of any walk of life are being carted off to jail because of brown lawns is really just too much. Part of me is deeply suspicious about the nature of the offense. The city is basically going after meek property owners that they know can be forced to pay out. This story is perfect for the city because it just makes everyone else all the more eager to pay out without drawing any attention to themselves.

Most people are going to look at this story and take the path of least resistance. They won't take a stand because it's a hassle and time suck.

< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 9/19/2007 1:47:58 PM >

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RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 1:49:51 PM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee
Heyyyyyyy! I'm a "subhuman..."

You might be. It's an open question.

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 17

RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 3:21:44 PM

subtee

Posts: 5133
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A human who's a sub...a sub with human tendencies...

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Post #: 18

RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 3:26:35 PM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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Ah, I see how your mind turns on those special three letters...

It's cute!

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 19

RE: Police = subhuman? - 9/19/2007 4:26:21 PM

Termyn8or

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I've heard of people going to jail for not having a lawn, for not having lids on their garbage cans and importing improperly packed lobsters.(how would one control that ?)

Most states are now what's called "home rule" states which basically means the US Constitution means nothing. Unless you have the money to literally make a federal case out if it, you have no rights at all.

Utah is one of the worst. As much as I don't think people should get bombed and drive, their DUI laws are ridiculous. They have what's called a "precursor". I personally know someone who got a DUI. He was not drinking at all, but he had driven out to the wilderness and had beer in the car. Under Utah "law" that is enough. I bet when they charge you under that, they do not administer a breathalyzer test because it would furnish a defense. The really big problem is that a jury, in today's day and age would possibly convict.

One other thing I noticed about cops. Of course there are some good ones, but why is it every time you hear the ruckus about them beating a suspect, it is not one on one, mano a mano, it is a handcuffed suspect laying on the ground getting the shit kicked out of them by four or five cops ?

In my younger days I got beat by the cops. I was relatively immortal at the time and surprisingly I didn't even have one bruise. They simply aren't all that tough. That's probably the explanation for their fear.

And who writes these laws. Of course you can find out their names, that's not what I mean. What kind of people write these laws ?

I'm going to go find another interesting thread to muck up or something before I get worked up into a frenzy about this. A police officer can be charged under US Code for enforcing an uncontitutional law, but the courts indemnify them with their actions. Juries are not apprised of their right to acquit for any reason, and that includes if they simply disagree with the law. That is why juries exist. But then you have judges and prosecutors in cahoots, getting key evidence for the defense disallowed and shit like that.

Patriots call the US the land of the fee and the home of the slave.

I must go now unless you want a 20,000 word post.

T

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 20

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